Squaredeal Sten
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Posts posted by Squaredeal Sten
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Thanks for resurrecting this fascinating topic. Since the cult of Ygg has now been published in the Lightbringers book, I wish there was a sourcebook and/ or an adventure or two to flesh out the Wolf Pirates.
I note Jeff's writing a year or two ago about the cults mix among the Pirates, so they include a lot of Orlanthi and other people from everywhere Harrek's circumnavigation touched. I put some of that into Caravanserai. But I am glad I did not need to touch on cultural aspects, because I was ignorant of everything Joerg wrote in this thread in 2019.
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Now going south from Nochet to Rhigos, where the ruler is the Demivierge, and thinking about Jeff's recent Facebook posting about thinking of Gloranthan society as a network in which the cults are the nodes:
I am puzzled about the Demivierge, because she does not match the image of an Ernaldan priestess ruler. How would she qualify as a priestess? I know there is a Rune spell fir transferring a pregnancy, but I don't think it is an Ernalda cult spell.
If not ErnAlda. then what cult, and how does that fit into the Esrolian network? This seems to me to be important for adventurers visiting Rhigos. Or even passing near the city.
Is there a write up of this that I could read? Or is it lost in an out of print fanzine?
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3 hours ago, AlexS said:
@Squaredeal Sten's question was specifically about the militia, so it's interesting that a lot of the (great) contributions here have actually been about military roles that go way beyond the Irillo Hundreds./.......
........So, my answer to the original question would be that yes, Esrolian women do participate in the Irillo Hundred system – but those who are not Vingans or Axe Maidens are massively outnumbered by the male militiamen, because there are very strong social incentives to direct the majority of young men towards the militia, whereas young women have a much wider range of higher-status options to which they can dedicate this period of their social initiation.
Which trak3s us back to: So what accounts for the Esrolian women having "cultural weapon skills"? Not as cult skills, because that is a different step in character creation.
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On 1/10/2024 at 9:51 AM, Renfield said:
l
- How do most folks feel about negative modifiers to a players' roll? (i.e. the house you are escaping is on fire, and falling apart. It will be a -20% to get through the room safely.
- How do folks feel about splitting out "soft specialty skills" into a sub-section of a character sheet. (i.e. Language: English, French, German. and Lore: Occult, Religion, Fables. Instead of having all of these listed in the main skill list, they are in a side section for "specialties" or "knowledges" or some s....
About negative modifiers: Ihave used them while GMing, and have also used fractional modifiers, that is "roll against half your skill". My difficulty with negatives is that low skill characters have NO chance of success, while with fraction al modifiers they have some chance.
About splitting out specialty skills: If your game is going to have a great variety of those then that is a great idea. But if you use RQ's category modifiers you need to make it easy to reference those in play, else players may forget to use them.
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6 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:
......... 🙂 😛
One option I imagine 4-6 women following the war leader like his (or her) shadow. Could be a nice association where they help him(or her) or could be impediment where the war leader feels their stern looks, disdainful wispers etc... like inquisitors...
That looks similar to commissars in early Soviet armies.
That historical example implies to me that Esrolian armies will very very strongly emphasize following the agreed battle plan, and be less flexible when unexpected events happen.
[I am not saying that Real World armies in general were very flexible before radio, nor that most Gloranthan armies would be much better, despite magic such as Wind Words.]
Which makes the battle of Pennell Ford exceptional, in that in such a composite force, Harrek provided the flexibility to counter the unexpected. Superheroes will do that. A yet unwritten story should include what the Ernaldans did in that campaign.
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3 hours ago, Jeff said:
First, Land of Ten Thousand goddesses is not canon and to the extent it is, it is largely set in the First Age so not really helpful.
Second, all Orlanthi view men as emotional and reckless, and women as more practical and rational. That's also the Esrolian view. ...
So in Nochet / Esrolia that view is acted upon in a more consistent way, unlike Sartar where it is just a comment.
- and the men seem to have absorbed that ideology. Even monarchical governments often tend to operate by consent of their populace.
I don;t think there is anything wrong with that; It gives the region a different flavor, tells the players they are not in Kansas any more.
Well back to
the wonderful city of OzNochet. I am working on tomorrow night's adventure. Where Samastina will not be caught behind a curtain, is not Oz at all.-
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4 hours ago, jajagappa said:
I think you can consider that material as a view from a particular time period (e.g. when HW/HQ1 came out) that interpreted the Esrolian matriarchy in very strong gender-differentiated terms. I personally consider that view/material to be obsolete and non-canonical. (You'll note in my Nochet: Adventurer's Guide that 1) I rewrote it; and 2) it is from one specific in-world view.)
OK, the Nochet Adventurer's guide still contains "We keep the men working hard on the land, which keeps their minds away from war and conflict: a well-worked man is a happy man." but what was deleted is only significant if pointed out. NAG still contains, under How are Women Different, speaking of men: " What they are not is leaders: this has been proven a thousand times. They are either too warlike, too kind, or too mercurial at heart, their focus blurs, and they soon forget their charges. "
But i do see that the more denigrating phraseology has been deleted or toned down.
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7 minutes ago, jajagappa said:
...... I'd recommend tossing that view out altogether......
But if we take away thise views, what is left to explain the matriarchal society?
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23 minutes ago, Jeff said:
What is the Esrolian characterisation of men?
As I understand it, it is that leadership by men is undesirable because men are more violent, less thoughtful vs. impulsive, and less long term thinkers.
As I read 'Esrolia the Land of Ten Thousand goddesses" I perceive that from page 10, "What is the difference between women and men" which begins "Women are superior to men in every way. They are shoirt tempered and prone to violence, selfish and unable to keep promises, "... and ends ""What men are not is leaders..."
and also the second paragraph of 'What makes us great* on page 9, and the second paragraph of " How do we live" on the same page,
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20 minutes ago, Jeff said:
An important feature for Greg and I was that Esrolia is an Orlanthi society. ...... noticeably different only when you look more carefully at the arrangements and realise that instead of Orlanth at the center of it all, it is Ernalda.
Does that help?
Somewhst. yes. I suppose it boils down to
"What is the extent to which the Esrolian characterationn of men in comparison to women has been internalized by the men and women who are not in the noble and priestly tiers of society?".
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As I understand it the Esrolian matriarchal society prefers women in leadership positions because they are said to be less impulsive, more emotionally stable and long term thinkers. Men do the heavy work in the Vogarth Strong Man role. and fight in the "Ernalda's protector" role, while women are the brains.
Also, as I understand it. both sexes get the same cultural weapons skills in character generation.
This brings me to questions: Do Esrolian women participate in the militia system. the Irillo Hundreds? (if not, how and why do they get trained in those weapon skills?) If so, are their sex role expectations in the militia different?
In my one instance of dealing with this in my own character generation, making an Esrolian male character who rolled participation in the battle of Pennel Ford, I decided that as a teenager he had been in a militia company whose captain was a woman. Indeed for distinguishing himself in battle (saving his captain who had been Befuddled) he was promoted to file leader and got the captain's recommendation, so after the war entered the Issaries cult as a caravan guard. He was very appreciative. The implication being that the officers are (or tend to be) women and the higher in rank you go. the closer you get to a glass ceiling, the higher proportion of women.
Does this match your own vision. of Esrolia?
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It is my impression that:
1) A lot of canon material originated as fan material in various fanzines. Most of which are out of print now, and cannot be reprinted due to original authors not being contact-able. So Glorantha has been a multi-person collaboration for decades, with wise editorial control..
2) Of course it got Chaosium edits along the way, Including some significant revisions. For instance "the west" was once presented as semi medieval, not so now in canon.
You who were participating when I had lost touch with Glorantha from the mid 1980s to 2018, please correct my possible error.
Anyway, Jonstown Compendium material ought not to suffer from the out-of-print problem.
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On 12/27/2023 at 1:30 PM, Geoff R Evil said:
Agree, in our game of SiS our chars were initiated into the clan and into a cult at the same time. The downside is POW use as some cults require a POW sacrifice to join as an initiate. So none of us took any Black Stag runespells, which SPOILER ALERT….was a good thing as the clan wyter is lost at the end of year 1 so you would have wasted those rune points, although a nice GM might decide that the rainbow wyrm takes over the duties of enabling access to the spirit stag to recover these.
we got by year 1 with a rune spell each and 2 initial spirit points and we earned a couple more as the year progressed. Certain combats were very difficult tho, could easily have turned into wipeouts except for some lucky rolls on the PC’s parts.
On the other hand, another SPOILER Alert: Some of that is the way you played Six Seasons.
At least one if the Black Stzg rune spells will go a long way to keeping the Six Seasons player characters alive at the end (6th season), and the clan wyter is only going to be killed by bad luck or bad player management, otherwise he is merely sidelined for most of Company of the Dragon. - END SPOLIER-
When I ran it, The default assumption was that the player characters would take at least one Black Stag rune point, and shortly thereafter would have the opportunity to initiate into the gods' cults. taking more rune points. I pro rated their acquisition of skills and magic over the next year. My argument is that the clan invests in these new adults. And Gordangar. foreseeing the conflict ahead (it's in the 6S book) accelerates their training.
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When I ran Black Spear, among the long term effects I took from it was that my Adventurers had seen Argrath at his worst and most vulnerable. This was after they had seen him in Company of the Dragon, where he is super competent, alert, and friendly.
So if was interesting to see how the players themselves reacted to Argrath when he rose to Prince. They have his confidence, he doesn't doubt their loyalty because if they had meant him harm they had their chance to do harm in Prax, and instead they healed him. He owes them from Black Spear. But they never are so tactless as to remind Argrath of when they saw him strung out. He is a questgiver.
Anyway, to summarize, Argrath is capable of playing many roles. Capable of being all things to all men, though not simultaneously. So when you ask how Argrath acts, ordinarily you might think about what he wants from the people he is dealing with.
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I hope the Nochet Adventurer's Huide is doing really well. Because I would like it in hard copy. The parts on different approaches to the city for the newcomer are going to get intensive use next week and I am going to print pieces out to help my GMing flow.
The only criticism I have so far is that the street names would be easier to find on the maps if they were in a larger font. Perhaps a major street map with a lot of the other layers suppressed more?
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Congratulations!
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10 hours ago, SDLeary said:
As runes are somewhat indicative of personality/behavior, perhaps circumstantial malus' on rune rolls? Not really sure how this could be pulled off though (it would be easier with Pendragon).
This
SDLeary
Mere exposure to and observstion of Chaos would not, but since the original question was about Lunars, then yes I would expect their Chaos and Moon rune alignments to increase as they become better Lunars.
When it/ they go(es) beyond 90% the GM should be requiring rolls against it and the Adventurer would be less and less under the Player's control. This is the same mechanic as for other alignments. It's in the RQiG book.
Whether the GM interprets that as insanity is an individual choice. I suppose a little gibbering and a lot of obsession would help some stories. Catatonia not so much, unless the purpose is to remove an over powered character from play.
Perhaps make a random roll to choose somethig from the psychological association's diagnostic manual? https://www.yourbookstop.com/product/diagnostic-and-statistical-manual-of-mental-disorders-text-revision-dsm-5-tr-5th-edition-dsm-5-tr/?gclid=CjwKCAiAyp-sBhBSEiwAWWzTns3k5ck_n_A6cKvd5TzaBzcxdxkljrqMB2rcMI_uvrz5ZWbTRg-RHRoCizoQAvD_BwE
But at $50 for a used copy.... I would rather spend my money on Chaosium's books. Your budget may vary.
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As I understand CoC, achieving 100% insanity. disables the character. But the Gloranthan stuff we have been shown doesn't work that way: The high ranking Lunars are functional despite uncounted exposures to Chaos. Indeed they accumulate more magic (and more ruthlessness), with no sign of being disabled. Perhaps Illumination protects them from being disabled and only the non illuminates are at risk.
But Glorantha seems to indicate a different mechanic associated with exposure to Chaos. The Storm Bulls seek it out and get more fanatical against it, only getting more skilled at fighting it.
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16 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:
as i don't follow the rqg proposed background I would just apply the same than humans, aka question with why, and answers create the background (and some bonus like rqg background) :
so we know this elf is on a mission. that's fine => Why the leaders decided to choose this elf and not another one ?
because the elf was volunteer ? => gain loyalty leader/dryad/ .. +10
because the elf family did what they can to obtain this "honor" ? => if the elf is happy with this decision gain love family +10, if not, gain honor +10
because the elf is known as weirdos ? => gain +5 or 10% in any exotic skill (from an elf perspective)
because some omen told the elders that the elf has a big destiny ? => gain loyalty forest +10
about the elf family background
is one (or more) parent identified as a hero ? why ? What did they did ?
- sacrifice their live fighting against another race ? hate (or fear it depends what was the death cause) this race +10, battle +5%, honor +5
- sacrifice their life fighting a fire ? fear fire +10, honor +10, reputation +5
- survived some heroic battle ? hate this race +10, battle +5%, reputation +5, honor +10
about the elf previous life ?
there is probably one skill very important for the player (not the character, but the player) => define with the player why this skill was learned and how was the learning,for example
- maybe the skill is > 70, why ? did some teacher/master very inspiring ? add loyalty teacher +10, was the teacher very bad, violent, ... ? add hate teacher or fear teacher +10
- maybe the skill is < 40, why ? did some teacher bery inefficient ? add hate teacher +10. because it is not an elf skill ? so who was the teacher ? add loylty teacher +10
does the elf know some foreign languages ? why ?
- because some foreign friends teached them ? (the @David Scott colymar example - why did you choose the official login sir ? ! 😛 -) add loyalty "clan/tribe/some people" +10 ?
- because they were prisonner and they learned the language of their jailers ? add hate or fear X +10 (as a gm ask how was this 'holydays', and decide then) then ask how the pc became free (someone else saved them ? loyalty +10 person or clan or ... / the pc alone ? how ? add+5/+10% for one of the skill used to flee
etc ...
you can choose any significant skill or characterstic and ask why . Tell me why your character has str/dex/... 16+ ? what did happen ? How did the pc use this strength... etc there is a moment where the player's answer will give you a passion, maybe a bonus in another skill, and sometimes, a hook, a nemesis, or anything good for your campaign
All good thoughts. And all are oriented toward building an elvish family history table. Or to the clan history defining question sequence used on Heroquest. Thae opportunity to do that fir this elf has passed because the Elf played the first session last night. (But I did provide a magic item to further her mission. in lieu of a human's heirloom.)
However your advice is still useful snd sppreciated. I might work on an elvish family history table and/or Q&A sequencr for the future. I encourage you to do that yourself too since you outline a good approach to it and have very flexible ideas.
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This elf left the woods to make contact with other elf woods. So she is on a mission - not a rootless elf. The elven hope is thst this will further the great reforestation plan. So that background is already covered.
This elf is not exactly from Tarndisi's Grove, but from the other scattered and less secure woods near the Quivin Mountains. She will join up with the other adventurers in Boldhome, as we start a trader campaign.
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I said OK to a player running a Green Elf Adventurer. Now this brought us to a discussion o family history.
It seems to me that most or all of the RQiG family history will not be applicable to elves.
Why?
First of all, because almost all elves live very separated from the society and events of the other major races. The Saratarite vs. Lunar war events will not matter much to the forests. The elves will have a history of conflict with the Uz, most of which is irrelevant to he RQiG pages 29-45 events. The Lunars' Moonburn will have been traumatic - but the Dorastor forests that burned will not have many elvish survivors so they are not relevant to rolling up a new elf..
Second, because elves are very long-lived. A 31 year old elf in the 1625 ST time frame will have parents who are 50 to 200 years old, and grandparents who live now or lived 100-400 years ago.
it seems to me that hatreds and loyalties for eves will be pretty long lived and stable. So the question is not whether your elf hates and fears Uz. They ALL hate and fear Uz. This is a racial dislike, not an individual issue.
Similarly, family heirlooms will be rare and improbable. That newly generated 21 year old elf won't inherit grandpa's magic thing, because grandpa is probably still alive and using it himself.
Your thoughts?
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On 12/5/2023 at 12:11 AM, g33k said:
Personally, I would most-likely include gaining 1 spirit-magic spell as a "usual" part of initiating to the community.
Since the thread started in the Six Seasons context,
In The Vale the adulthood initiation is also an initiation to the Black Stag. So they will end up with 1 Rune Point from Black Stag. But immediately after that they get their cult initiation, so that is when I gave mine their cult skills and spirit magic too. ... and the Playing Inexperienced Adventurers box on p.25 of RQiG just says skip their Step 7 personal Skill bonuses.
So the way I did it - which is just my way, not compulsory for anyone else -
At the start, Session Zero, i gave my Six Seasons players two pages of Notes on Character Generation, and part of this says::
You are all going to start as inexperienced, meaning age 16 not age 21. The year of our first campaign
events is 1618-19, not 1625. When and if your characters get to 1625 we will then merge into the
current RQG timeline, and I expect that everyone will be experienced with 25 seasons of “cult and
occupational “ skill checks plus whatever you get from adventures.
And cults to initiate in will be chosen after the youth adventures. No Eurmali, no Chaos cults...... steps...
6. Cult; Don’t do this. You are not yet adult, cults don’t take children. Children are not taught
magic.7. Personal skill bonuses: Don’t do this, this will be achieved in your 5 years of growing up before
age 21.And I also gave everyone a blank skills calculations spreadsheet, because at the later steps they will get more skill%, so it's important to have at hand a record of when and how they got their char gen skill %.
And then of course we played through the initiation chapter.
==
Anyway, I do see that giving them all their starting 5 points of spirit magic and 3 points of major-cu;t rune magic may seem a little overpowered for starting youth characters. I looked ahead at their future challenges and didn't want them to die before the six seasons ended, so I gave those to them. But an alternate way of doing these things would be to dribble them out in the next three seasons or so. They are very likely to need their Black Stag rune spell(s) by the end of the sixth season.
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4 hours ago, Joerg said:
What do you do with the rest of the harvested grain, linen, or cabbages? We have heard about temple and city granaries. Do farmers keep considerable amounts of their harvests in their homes? .......
In their homes, or immediately adjacent to their homes. Enough to live on until the next harvest.
Incidentally i have my doubts about whether the grain tithe applies to carrots, cabbages, other garden vegetables, many of which do not have a specific harvest date but are picked during a several-months-long ripening period. The administrative burden involved in collecting a tithe on household production of tomatoes or okra would be impossible.
Here are some images of traditional granaries: :
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On 11/28/2023 at 1:01 PM, Nozbat said:
I have been trying to work out a Tax system for my Hanseatic Campaign and it was an interesting exercise which ended up with the producers having to pay to make goods... that meant starting again. But @Joerg and I eventually cracked it (City import tax of 3%).
However, an interesting point I read was that the toll, introduced in 1567, by the Danish Crown at the Øresund Sound was 1-2% of the Cargo value. The amount of taxes levied accounted for two thirds of the Danish States income in the 16th and 17th Century.
Another amusing bit of information was that the value of the cargo was self-certified by the ship's Captain, but to ensure that it was not undervalued the State reserved the right to buy the cargo at the certified price! An excellent strategy to keep Merchant's honest.
Ladies and Gentlemen may I present... Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler
The same 1% to 3% makes sense for tolls at city gates too. And highway tolls - well, if they are imposed at several locations that can kill trade altogether, unless they are low. I mean a clack or two per beast of burden. if they are higher and frequent then long distance trade will get eaten up by tolls charged by every clan and village.
IMG that is what happened when the Prince of Sartar's authority collapsed: Deer Folk and bandits and clans all tapped the traders, and the restoration of princely authority involved making the clans stop it and also regulating city gate tolls.
So- Argrath as quest-giver to my players' characters... but only after the Issaries player came to a boil as tolls on the Heortland Road ate up his business. (It only took one game session of that to get him royally pisseed off, so he lobbied Argrath...) . With effort and authority from Argratn, the Adventurers restored trade into the Holy Country as well as within Sartar.
Questions about Ygg, Yggites, and Wolf Pirates
in Glorantha
Posted · Edited by Squaredeal Sten
capitalization
To me, this indicates a need for an "official" book on the Wolf Pirates & associated topics. Or a couple of adventures plus background write-up. I realize that other people may not feel the same desire.. But with attention shifting toward Esrolia and Heortland, more of us will be wanting that.