Jape_Vicho

10 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Now there are some oddities about this passage (wind-walking?) 

I remember reading somewhere that the "wind walking" is a reference to Garganth. 

In The hidden fortress, by Akira Kurosawa, the actors Minoru Chiaki and Kamatari Fujiwara play an excellent role as two unnerving traitorous and stupid scoundrels, and you can really imagine them being tricksters in Glorantha. I can see all the plot happening in Glorantha really, those two as Eurmali, the princess as an aloof Vingan, Mifune being a stoic and intimidating Humakti or Yelmalion... The only thing that's missing is the rune magic.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

The weirdest theory I have seen in this context is that Fronela received an insert of land, pushing North Loskalm to the west by about 15 degrees. Compare the maps of First or Second Age Trollpak (or the mythical God Learner maps in the Guide) with that of Third Age Trollpak or the Argan Argar Atlas.

I thought that would be non-canon anymore (the text from Greg in the OP is very old after all, even older than me), mainly bc the Guide and Sourcebook historical maps don't show any "land insert", and they show the change of lands in Seshnela and Slontos. Now that I think of it, I remember the Guide mentions a ruin (called Old Ruins) in the upper course of the Janube between Galastar and Gladfield which no one remembers being there before the ban, but it's "banned section" as seen in page 201 is too small to be a significant land insert, and it's far from the supposed culprits of Riverjoin and the resulting disaster of the KoW. Also the land from which the KoW was born, in the Black Forest, was remembered before the ban, so I don't really know what to think about any of it. 

Also, I have always thought that the mysterious depopulation of Donaros and Vibdoket (maybe also of Dalsard) has to be linked with the KoW, not bc the depopulation, which could be easily explained by the ban and its consequences (hunger, civil strife...) but bc the KoW was already born with an army, yet it appeared in previous Uz territory, and we know that if we can say something good about the Uz is that they never side with Chaos. So, where did all those humans that serve the KoW come from? Some may have flocked to it after it appeared but we are talking about an army that can challenge that of the great Loskalm, one of the biggest states in all Glorantha, it must have counted with a big base of recruits. Also I think it's kind of interesting that thousands of janubians were teleported into a small territory and magically tortured and terrified until they became one of the worst things the world has ever seen, and I can definitely picture the Lunars doing that. 

5 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

In RQG, Yelmalio is not associated with any of the other Orlanthi cults.  Just Ernalda, everybody loves her.  🙂 And "friendly" to CA.

Should the "main Solar deity" of the Sartarites be more connected to the cults most Sartarites worship?  This makes recovering rune spells awkward too.   Will there be an updated cult compatibility chart for the Sartar branch of Yelmalio?

I think it wouldn't be crazy to make CA an associated cult too (in my Glorantha they are associated). I remember there being a myth in King of Dragon Pass that connects CA to Elmal, and it could easily be also practiced by Yelmalions. And it wouldn't throw off the balance either, it could provide Heal Body as rune spell, which loads of other cults have, and the only really good spirit spell that CA has and Ernalda does not is Sleep, which can't be learned by those not initiated into CA, so Yelmalio's spell pool would not change much. 

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

First, remember that even the Orlanthi don't "own" the land - the Earth temples do.  Effectively they are leasing it out.

I didn't know that, but it really does make perfect mythological sense.

Most of the post is just rambling, I've posted a TL;DR at the end if you don't want to read the whole text.

I've been thinking about the "religious/cult requirements" for the Orlanthi steadholders, in order to prepare for my not-yet-decided-where next campaign. It is known that orlanthi society is structured along the lines of the Orlanth-Ernalda relationship, using the also known principle of "If Above so Below". The typical orlanthi stead, thus, will follow some interpretation of this relationship, varying depending on the culture. This in reality is the case for most cultures; the other most known (macro)culture, the pelorians, don't differ that much, and their marriage represents the relationship between Lodril and Oria, whatever the names they have in their region (also a very powerful and self-agrandizing minority structures their marriage along the relationship between Yelm and Dendara, but as I'm talking about farmer families I will not touch on them). It would thus be logical that a typical orlanthi family is expected is expected to embody those ideals (again, as above, so below). Mechanically, this topic is touched in two publications that I know of. First, in the Gamemaster's Adventures for RQG, for an adventurer to become thane of Apple Lane and to aquire some of the lands associated with the title, the character needs to be initiated into Orlanth or an associated cult. Dorastor: Land of Doom handles it differently, as it requires that at least a PC be initiated into Orlanth (and not associated cults) in order for him/her to be able to become a Steadholder (meaning the proprietary of lot of farmland, also called a carl). In a way, it makes perfect sense, as I think that in the world, the main non material requirement to be a carl is to participate in the seasonal rituals of the clan that make up and maintain it's magic, for exemple, a festivity in Sea Season in which the women bless the grains and the men bless the plows (this is taken from ALM's Six Seasons in Sartar). In the case of Orlanthi society, this rituals are clearly an Orlanth-Ernalda business, and the reason why all clans have at least a shire to each of them. But despite about 7/10 of Orlanthi follow their traditional roles, meaning they are initiates of Orlanth or Ernalda, 3/10 don't, whether they be initiates of other lightbringers or other non-associated cults. Of course, being an Issariote does not ban you from Orlanth-Ernalda rituals, quite the opposite! You are encouraged to participate, but that does not mean you are initiated into the secrets of those gods, you are merely a lay member. If we follow the precedent of the GM's Adventures, any initiate of a LB cult, Ernalda or any of the Storm gods associated with Orlanth can be a carl without the need to burn a POW point, which is more lenient than the version of D:LoD, but it stills leaves out two of the most numerous cults in orlanthi lands, Yelmalio and Seven Mothers. According to recent Jeff's posts, Yelmalio and 7M are the third and fourth most popular cults in Sartar, and in total they may not be that numerous, each amounting to a ~2% of the Sartarites (this statistic does not count Vaantar, if you counted it the amount of Yelmalions in Sartar I think would get to around a 4% I think), but this number would be much greater in other orlanthi lands as the 7M cult in Tarsh is very powerful, as is Yelmalio's in Saird. Also Humakt is not that popular but still numerous and not associated with Orlanth's cult (or any other).

Does that mean that followers of Yelmalio, 7M and Humakt can't own land and be Thanes or Carls? Or does it mean that they must also be initiated to Orlanth (or at least Barntar if they're just carls) in order to do so? I can see a humakti or even a yelmalion being also initiates to Orlanth but a 7Ms cultist in a land where the most "stormy" aspects of Orlanth have not been spressed as is the case for Sartar or Talastar.? That looks hard. How would you rule this? Would you make the PCs have to initiate into Orlanth or an AC in order for them to become Steadholders? In a purely mechanical sense, this looks pretty irrelevant, who cares about a point of POW? But I don't want my players to just invest an abstract point that their characters can't even know it exists and then completely forget about Orlanth and never learn its mysteries or participate in his rituals.

TL;DR: in order for a person to be proprietary of a hide of land and the status of carl in orlanthi lands, it seems necessary to be initiate of Orlanth or at least an associated cult, depending on the source, but this leaves a good chunk of popular cults out of this system (mainly Yelmalio, 7M and Humakt). How would you rule it? Would you make the characters have to pass initiation to Orlanth/Barntar, spend a POW point and regularly participate in his worship?

8 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Love all this but this note in particular gets me wondering whether the transported brought a little sun with them to the far hot country and if so, who it was. Presumably this deity wouldn't have maintained an equestrian tradition or developed a conventional Dome . . . but would have evolved in other directions.

The Umathelan Orlanthi are mainly from Maniria from the first and early second ages right? That region is not particularly known for its solar worship (very far from any Pelorian influences, it has never been built a Sun Dome there, and its hilly and forested terrain is bad for horsebreeding), and if they migrated before the First Revelation or right after the fall of the Bright Empire, they could have practiced no solar worship at all (even if they practiced, it would have been very marginal). But where they migrated to there are loads of Aldryami, and that means a lot of Halamalo worship. Umathelan Orlanthi clans are said to coexist and be allies (or friendly vassals) of the Aldryami, so my best guess is that they adopted Little Sun worship from them, both for its useful magics and as a elf-friend cult, and thus, their Yelmalio worship is very "Aldryamized". But of course I don't think there's any canonical mention of this, it's just an idea. 

On 9/1/2021 at 6:18 AM, RHW said:

My dumbest theory is that Shargash and Zorak Zoran are two aspects of the same god, which is why they never appear in the same myth together.

Now that I think of it, they're kind of like mirroring opposites, Zorak Zoran is an underworld deity that spends a lot of time on the surface (beating ppl up) and has control over fire and Shargash is a Sky deity that weirdly spends a lot of time and has a "locale" in the underworld. Sounds like material for a very cool heroquest. 

I wonder if the yelmalions of Vaantar and Mo Baustra (or even further Sun Domes! What about the ones in the Janube and Ralios) do pilgrimages to the Hill of Gold, that could be a cool RQ pilgrimage adventure. 

1 hour ago, UristMcTurtle said:

Who recieves the blessings and prayers when your average farmer needs a sunny day?

This is pretty interesting imo, and a very good way to show the differences between the Orlanthi and Pelorians, and to clear some minds on the Orlanthi religion (this is all my imagination so it's not canon but I think it fits and it's fun).

First, Peloria is way colder than Dragon Pass and Kethaela, the cradle of Orlanthi civilization, so despite the love of hills of the Orlanthi, the cold is much more of a problem for the sun-worshipping pelorians than for the storm-worshippers.

Second and even more important is how the two civs react to environmental hazards. A Pelorian village faced with a torrential rain that threatens to destroy their crops will call upon Yelm to smite the clouds and clear the sky, if faced with a hurricane they could call Yelm again or maybe Shargash, who even though dangerous, is a famed storm-killer, and if the winter cold of Valind is making them freeze, they can call upon Lodril to fight him and warm them with his heat. But the Orlanthi follow a completely different approach: if they are struck with torrential rain, they call upon Orlanth or Heler to tame the rain and make it bountiful, not destructive; if they are suffering a hurricane, they obviously resort to Orlanth magic in order to control it; if the winter is too cold, they buy Valind with sacrifices and rituals, so he takes his anger somewhere else (and they also worship Mahome through Ernalda, not through Lodril as the Pelorians usually do). Doing this, they have no need for Yelm, and the only solar deities they may get a use of are Yelmalio if they are facing terrible odds against enemies or if they are suffering attacks from Darkness creatures (but they could also choose the pacifist route and worship Argan Argar instead) and Rigsdal in order to gain knowledge of the stars and planets (and even this can be managed with some weird approach to Orlanth Thunderous). 

So, the Orlanthi recognize Yelm as the sun god, there's no way to deny that (even though some times they might have called him by a different name, but he is always the Sun Emperor), but they have no need for him, they have plenty Storm, Water and Earth magic to help them with all their problems. 

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Tip #1: don't be afraid to run a campaign in an area because you don't feel you have enough content or lore! 

Tip #2: if you don't have material about a place, make it up!  (Yes, you may find it doesn't eventually align to "canon" - aspects of my version of Imther and the city of Hortugarth did not - but I also had 10 years of very enjoyable gaming based on what I created, and some of my creations become "canon" after all.)

Tip #3: determine what type of campaign you want to run and your players want to play, and figure out how that works into the setting, or how you'll modify the setting to run that game.

Overall, there's a lot of events happening in the Lunar Provinces/Saird post-Dragonrise.

Here's your Starting Point (from Glorantha Sourcebook p.188-9):

To restore order to the cosmos, the priests, priestesses, and nobles of the Lunar Empire gathered in 7/54 (1625) to sanctify the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Dragon Pass to finish the task of suppressing the Rebel Gods. The Governor-General of the South assembled thousands of Lunar magicians, provincial leaders, and many regiments of soldiers to sanctify the new Temple of the Reaching Moon in Sartar. Instead disaster struck.... a monstrous True Dragon awakened beneath the temple. It devoured the temple, the priests, the magicians, the provincial leaders, and the regiments of soldiers. In one moment, half the Empire’s military might was destroyed. Many of the Empire’s greatest leaders, including Appius Luxius, Tatius the Bright, and Enerian Scarlet, were lost forever.

With the Provincial Overseer devoured by the True Dragon, and the Provincial Government in shatters, the hill tribes in Aggar, Talastar, Vanch, Imther, and even Holay rose in rebellion. The rebels in Aggar defeated the remaining Lunar friends in that province and acclaimed one of their own king of Aggar. By end of 8/1 (1626), much of the Lunar Provinces were lost to the Empire, except for such strongholds as Tarsh, Mirin’s Cross, and Vanch. In Imther, an imperial appointee ruled little more than Hilltown.  [And, in addition, Pentan bands raided ... deep into Imther and Holay.]

Choose your starting kingdom and location (city or clan).  There are multiple "leaders" who are now striving to gain control of the city, tribe, or even kingdom - one is a potential patron, or likely ally (but they demand aid and assistance); one is a dire villain (committing atrocities, or even invoking foul deities).   But which is which and how will you choose?  How will you survive now for the omens all proclaim that the Hero Wars are upon you?

Most of the leaders are new, or are left without clear allies/patrons - it's a largely clean slate for you to create upon.

Thanks for all the work, as always Jajagappa. I hope to put all this info to good use in a future campaign. 

Thanks to the writer and the sharer, a very insightful read.

On 8/11/2021 at 2:50 PM, jajagappa said:

This was why I set my original campaign back in the 80's/90's in this region - lots of opportunity to incorporate a variety of backgrounds in a group of PC's. 

And lots of opportunities to fight, rebel, build up your own petty kingdom, etc.  The Provincial Overseer is dead, as Jeff notes.  Tarsh is still mucking about in Dragon Pass, the Red Emperor is dealing with a Pentan invasion and White Moonies, and Saird is up-for-grabs.  (Too bad the Brass Gates of Hilltown were closed by the dwarfs cutting off a good supply of metal..., but perhaps the trolls of Yolp will aid you, if not one of the local Sun Domes.)

I too have thoght that a campaign in Saird (well, the Lunar Provinces in general) would be very cool, especially bc a lot of my players are pro-lunars, but I have never tried bc I'm afraid of not being able to create a realistic and "close to the spirit of Glorantha" scenario due to my ignorance of the region's lore. If you are knowledgeable in the matter, could you point to some material that talks about the area or adventures, if there's any, or even share some extra tips that you learned while doing your own campaign?

1) RuneQuest Glorantha.

2) The current campaign started about 9 months ago but examination periods and other incidents have caused the lose of 3 months or more.

3) Late Earth Season 1625, the start indicated in the GameMaster's Screen Pack Campaign.

4) Colymar lands, and we have not ventured far, only Colymar and Malani tribal lands so far.

5) Two of them are two Colymar soblings, a warrior of Elmal and a healer of Chalana Arroy. Other is a Humakti Durulz orphan originally from the ducklands but mostly raised in Lismelder lands. The fourth is an Uzko from the Troll Woods. Recently we added a Pol-Joni shaman.

6) The Rulebook, Bestiary and GM's Screen Pack. Those are all must haves, and I recommend reading some commentaries on the adventures of the latter product in order to improve them. (For exemple, the ones from this blog https://monstersandmusings.blogspot.com/).

7) The best definition would be "episodic".

😎 (this is an 8 ) ) We're still at late 1625 so there hasn't been time for much change or events, but I have followed Nick Brooke's timeline and ideas regarding the Battle of the Queens. No other major change that I can remember.

9) I have pretty strong criticisms of my own work. I would describe it as "underwhelming" even though my players say otherwise.

10) I would recommend you to start with "underpowered" or "young" characters, meaning PCs that have just reached adukthood and thus have only 3 spirit magic spells and 1 RP, in my opinion this makes for a greater progression that the players would probably enjoy more, but you know your players best so you would know if they would enjoy it.

8 hours ago, Eagle Talon said:

Those two seem to be the same god

Same god, different yet similar cults.

8 hours ago, Eagle Talon said:

but I'm really interested about Elmal in Orlanthi society.

You are not alone, waves after waves of newcomers to Glorantha fall for the radiance of the Sun God of the Orlanthi, myself included (until I saw the Light of the Vision of Many Suns). I don't really know why he's so appealing but it's a fact he is. The writters had some problems fitting together all the Yelmalio-Elmal stuff, but apparently they have come up with the final solution; parts of it have been told here by Jeff and others but the final description of all this seems that will be in the upcoming Cults of Glorantha book.

8 hours ago, Eagle Talon said:

Do Elmal cultists behave differently than Yelmalions? As strict as Yelmalions or more Orlanthi-style? Perhaps there are no gifts and geases. 

They behave somewhat differently yes, at least from the Yelmalions of the Sun Counties, which are the majority. They don't need to be as strict as the Yelmalions of the SC but their  affinity definitely makes them somewhat disciplined. And no gifts and geases.

8 hours ago, Eagle Talon said:

Does Elmal offer fire-based magic to his followers? 

He does not, his fire was stolen, just as Yelmalio's. Yet unlike the horse god of the Orlanthi, Yelmalio still has his light, come and bask in it, brother.

Oh so now I understand why so many people took to following Belintar once he landed on the Kethaelan shores... 

Oh and I would consider adding a literal Chaos rune mark someplace on his body, maybe it only shows in combat, when he is enraged, nervous, or some other situation.

On 6/5/2021 at 12:39 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

Any more on Alone since 2019? 

I found a little skimpy bit of material in The Coming Storm - much less than i see above here.

I ask because I'm planning a game which will take the party into Alone, though not to stay.

One of the scenarios of The Pegasus Plateau takes place there, precisely in the Woods of the Dead.

"Gloomwillow's Hollow details the Woods of the Dead, a realm ruled by ghouls and worse."

Also this thread contains a huge amount of good info and ideas about the Alone Confederarion.

He can always buy a wolf and try to pass for a Telmori, which are the most tolerated of the chaos-cursed entities in Sartar. 

You can maybe ask for a roll against the chaotic affinity in some situations that you think fit, and if he fails, he does something chaotic and pumps up his Chaos affinity by 1d10% or something like that.

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

and the ancestors distrust the gods in general

I don't get this, the spirits of the dead Orlanthi distrust the Lightbringers? Why?

On 6/2/2021 at 10:50 AM, soltakss said:

In fact, most are cowards, hiding away in the Upland Marsh

Isnt that kind of like saying some coward is hiding away in Yemen during it's current civil and external war in order to live peacefully?

They are indeed the adventurers, and I imagine intended to convey precisely the kind of characters your players can play. My (dumbest) theory is that they are all deceased in that image, and they, along with countless other dead warriors, are following the dead King Broyan as he descends from a storm, leading the Army of Dead Heroes in the Battle of Dwernapple.

Voriof definitely sees much worship from sheep herders, which probably are the most common herd in sartar, even though cattle is more prestigious. 

Man it all looks great.

5 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

 

Can you say who is the author of those drawings? Kinda reminds me of the pictures of the gods in the Cults part of the rulebook and on the Sourcebook but also to Kleios Canvas' style.

Come to think of it, I wonder if Chaosium thinked about making pre-gen sheets of the characters of Jeff's White Bull campaign. I watched a couple of episodes and they all looked very solid and interesting PCs, and they even have the art done!

The maps and pictures are absolutelly fantastic.