Power Brain storming results about Power (ideas + question)

[Lloyd Dupont]

I got multiple conflicting desire for my game...
- I want magical power in play such as lightning bolt, damage boosting, protection, shapechange
- I want wizard to be very expensive Xp investment before being worthwhile (in term of lethality) (that was the hardest one to come up with some ideas)
- i like the time scale mechanism for extended power duration, but that compound power balance issues...
- I think I could say I want to emulate a level 7 D&D wizard power level. It's by no means a power house, but he can still fireball, dimension door, polymorph...
- I don't mind too much that Exertion Point would be like 25 and magic would cost like 2 (or 6 for lightning 5, close range) provided it's not too op...
- I like magical items

I came up with some ideas, and some question.. feel free to ignore them if you totally disagree or criticise them if you like what I try to achieve but disagree with the means.

 

 

- what if 2 magical might = 1 elemental / kinetic might . ie. concentration 55%/channeling 6 can only do 3d6 of elemental damage (still 6EP cost though), or 3 armour, or +3 damage. suddenly it's much more manageable and still potentially lethal... and would be significant but not game changing...

Plus I wouldn't mind maintaining (i.e. Extended duration for Arcane Magic) +3 weapon for the party as much as I would +6 weapons... 
Might as well give magical armour a coverage of (10-might) with +2 on roll unless magical sense reveals as custom rule about arrows.

In fact I quite like that idea, going to roll with that, me think.
And it doesn't really matter much for rule consistency if I want to apply a scale to some powers (0.5 in that case). But I think it will scale power / lethality as I like them to be...

- shapechange: this is a very powerful (particularly since the casting cost is so negligible: 2EP).. but if I get conflicts, and parallel conflicting right (only 3 read so far  ) this needs to bring down POW pool to 0. Say pool is 12 each "attack" cost 5SR, defence cost 5SR for +30% bonus (if trait applicable) or 0SR for no bonus, might take an average of.. just a guess at this stage.. maybe 6 conflicts for enough wins? (if better skill and/or luck, of course) or 3 round so it's a bit tricky and counterable (smite the wizard for fast dispel!) and annoying for victim (SR cost that's worth incurring)

I wonder, did I understood the gist of parallel conflict?

- I like my dark elves (right now player are stranded on Master of Magic's Arcanum, land of Dark Elves and Dragonewt) to be long lived powerful sorcerer fighter. With those legendaries adamantium armor and weapons. The whole enchantment rule is.. designed for fewer powerful items, not for "relatively" numerous chainmail +2 with absorb (fire/electricity 2). I am not quite sure how they happen. I could just drop them in game of course... But how would one craft one is a mystery?! 😮 

- Dodge & Parry: one can dodge or parry a weapon or lightning bolt. the weapon table you can see Parry reduce the dice. It's not clear anywhere else, but I guess this is the best way to go about it. Which dice does it remove though? Might first? Weapon Dice? And for lightning, what's the parry value?
And dodge.. apparently that dodge everything.. Does it incur an encumbrance penalty?

 

 

Sorry for flooding the forum! 😮 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Lloyd Dupont

[RosenMcStern]

It is a welcome flood, as we had had sort of a draught during summer.

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

- what if 2 magical might = 1 elemental / kinetic might . ie. concentration 55%/channeling 6 can only do 3d6 of elemental damage (still 6EP cost though), or 3 armour, or +3 damage. suddenly it's much more manageable and still potentially lethal... and would be significant but not game changing...

This would effectively be nerfing  Palsy 8 can take down a dragon, while Project Lightning 8 with 4d6 damage (minus armour) has little or no hope of damaging it.

Keep in mind that the balance of power in Rd100 is not numerically equivalent to that of other BRP variants. Intensity 19+ was common in RQ3, and Intensity 10 is not unheard of in Mythras. However, Might 8 is something very, very big in Rd100. Sure, you can make a starting character who is able to fire these huge blasts, but at what price? He must forfeit ALL other skills, which means he will go down against goblins: while he fries the first one with a huge fireball, the second one kills him with a spear thrust, Rurik-style. We have actually played this kind of magic intensively, and it is not such a game changer. 

Quote

I wonder, did I understood the gist of parallel conflict?

Yes.

Quote

- I like my dark elves (right now player are stranded on Master of Magic's Arcanum, land of Dark Elves and Dragonewt) to be long lived powerful sorcerer fighter. With those legendaries adamantium armor and weapons. The whole enchantment rule is.. designed for fewer powerful items, not for "relatively" numerous chainmail +2 with absorb (fire/electricity 2). I am not quite sure how they happen. I could just drop them in game of course... But how would one craft one is a mystery?! 😮 

Why do you say so? Keep in mind that the only limit to enchanting is the time and materials it takes. If the sorcerer is confident he does not risk Consequences that might devalue the item, i.e. the item has just a +1/+2 effect, then he will probably manage to enchant one every few weeks. A long lived powerful sorcerer fighter can provide all of his retainers with simple magic items. The big ones, of course, he will keep for himself, particolarly because with a 20+ pool to beat for enchanting it is almost impossible to not suffer some flaws, and that will easily translate to the item bestowing limitations on the enchanter. 

Quote

- Dodge & Parry: one can dodge or parry a weapon or lightning bolt. the weapon table you can see Parry reduce the dice. It's not clear anywhere else, but I guess this is the best way to go about it. Which dice does it remove though? Might first? Weapon Dice? And for lightning, what's the parry value?
And dodge.. apparently that dodge everything.. Does it incur an encumbrance penalty?

If the defence is successful, damage is not rolled. However, if the attack roll is higher (or a crit vs. a normal success) then the attacker can use the Overwhelm combat effect to overcome the defence. It is only in that case that the Parry value has effect. The attacker chooses which dice are removed first, so it is usually the Might dice and not the weapon dice.

Dodge is a defence like the others, so the attacker can use Overwhelm against it: the defender manoeuvred with his body to put the weapon in the way of the attack, rather than moving the weapon to intercept. If you wonder why one would want to do so, just check how much SR does a parry with a greatsword or poleaxe costs. If you have no weapon in hand, then either the dodger wins the exchange or his Dodge has the only effect of wasting the attacker's combat effect on Overwhelm (this might still save his life, as it may prevent an impale or slash). Dodge works as "avoid all damage" only if you have a special martial arts technique (Evade).

And finally, when a ranged attack is dodged the attacker cannot use Overwhelm, but he has Glancing Blow instead. Little chance of incapacitating, but the target suffers SR loss for the pain and becomes vulnerable to further attacks. And if the missile was poisoned or enchanted...

[Lloyd Dupont]

32 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

It is a welcome flood, as we had had sort of a draught during summer.

 ... 

 

19 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

This would effectively be nerfing  Palsy 8 can take down a dragon, while Project Lightning 8 with 4d6 damage (minus armour) has little or no hope of damaging it.

Keep in mind that the balance of power in Rd100 is not numerically equivalent to that of other BRP variants. Intensity 19+ was common in RQ3, and Intensity 10 is not unheard of in Mythras. However, Might 8 is something very, very big in Rd100. Sure, you can make a starting character who is able to fire these huge blasts, but at what price? He must forfeit ALL other skills, which means he will go down against goblins: while he fries the first one with a huge fireball, the second one kills him with a spear thrust, Rurik-style. We have actually played this kind of magic intensively, and it is not such a game changer. 

I will keep in mind.. thing is the game is totally new to! ...
I just saw that a starting score of 52% in concentration seems easy to achieve, that makes lightning bolt of 5D6 spamming easy.. or continuous Protection 5 with extended duration... all things that I found painful everytime I played any BRP/Mythras game... (when I was a kid I played RuneQuest, but only use the expensive Divine Magic, Spirit Magic or Shape spells in Sorcery)

What I wanted is to get that D&D level 8 adventures feel magic wise...  lightning, fly, shapechange, etc... but Wizards still not that threatening yet...

 

26 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

Why do you say so? Keep in mind that the only limit to enchanting is the time and materials it takes. If the sorcerer is confident he does not risk Consequences that might devalue the item, i.e. the item has just a +1/+2 effect, then he will probably manage to enchant one every few weeks.

well... let say I was confused apparently...
it's 257 page I was trying to speed read between Monday and now, jumping from topic to topic... 😮  
interesting revelation that you tell me now

 

29 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

If the defence is successful, damage is not rolled. However, if the attack roll is higher (or a crit vs. a normal success) then the attacker can use the Overwhelm combat effect to overcome the defence. It is only in that case that the Parry value has effect. The attacker chooses which dice are removed first, so it is usually the Might dice and not the weapon dice.

Dodge is a defence like the others, so the attacker can use Overwhelm against it: the defender manoeuvred with his body to put the weapon in the way of the attack, rather than moving the weapon to intercept. If you wonder why one would want to do so, just check how much SR does a parry with a greatsword or poleaxe costs. If you have no weapon in hand, then either the dodger wins the exchange or his Dodge has the only effect of wasting the attacker's combat effect on Overwhelm (this might still save his life, as it may prevent an impale or slash). Dodge works as "avoid all damage" only if you have a special martial arts technique (Evade).

And finally, when a ranged attack is dodged the attacker cannot use Overwhelm, but he has Glancing Blow instead. Little chance of incapacitating, but the target suffers SR loss for the pain and becomes vulnerable to further attacks. And if the missile was poisoned or enchanted...

Mm.. need more read.. thanks for explanation!  

[Lloyd Dupont]

1 hour ago, RosenMcStern said:

This would effectively be nerfing  Palsy 8 can take down a dragon, while Project Lightning 8 with 4d6 damage (minus armour) has little or no hope of damaging it.

Reading those 2 spells now...

trying to apply my x2 scaling and see how I understand things...

Palsy need to run a Parallel conflict, it might take, say 3 rounds at least, shouldn't it?
In 3 round one could cast 4D6 lightning bolt 6 times, couldn't they? it's going to be 24EP.. might get rid of extra cost for project.. so only 12EP (range and might manipulation), not excessive...
Dragon armour might remove 1D6 perhaps.. but let's say it doesn't... it's 4D6 6 times against Toughness of 15.....
Well.... there is a good chance to roll 16~18 in 6 attack, which would be over toughness.. i.e. shake the dragon significantly... 
However if I remove just 1 die for dragon leather.. then lightning useless...

Mm... although 1 or 2 damage on a toughness of 15.. not that much... mmm...

Mmm... going to brainstorm what I want...

Edited August 29, 2019 by Lloyd Dupont

[RosenMcStern]

Consider also that it is not so difficult to survive a 4d6 blast for a human target who has a minimum of armor or protection, as Toughness of 9 is not uncommon (did it last spring with my dwarf alchemist - we exchanged fireballs with a magician, and of course the dwarf was the one standing after both firebolts connected). 

[Lloyd Dupont]

52 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

Consider also that it is not so difficult to survive a 4d6 blast for a human target who has a minimum of armor or protection, as Toughness of 9 is not uncommon (did it last spring with my dwarf alchemist - we exchanged fireballs with a magician, and of course the dwarf was the one standing after both firebolts connected).

Really?
Ho yeah.. 8 toughness should be common....

To be honest I didn't play that much D100.. but every time I played all variation of magic made me sad. I am trying to solve that.
I like the ideas of increase damage, increase armor, lightning bolt spells, but those spells always seem to break the game... 😢 
 

Anyway... maybe divide by 2 is a bad idea.
What about a number penalty to elemental/kinetic might (i.e. "low level or ungifted" caster can only do harmless element), say minus 3.
i.e. one need a magic might of (at least) 4 for 1D6... but then it grows 1 by 1 after that.
(obviously no need to pay more for project in that case, usual price will do)

A beginner gifted wizard (55% in concentration, 6 channeling) -1 for range = +5 might = 6 magic might = 3D6 for 2ep could spam 3d6 lightning bolt twice per round for 6 rounds without a sweat.
Yes it's survivable but it's better than bow and arrow or equivalent to a good sword strike. It also automatically bypass most mundane armour, doesn't it?

A veteran with 75% could spam 5D6 firebolt instead...

does that sound more... reasonable?
Just throwing up ideas...

 

I would apply the same modifier to protection / increase damage too.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Lloyd Dupont

[Lloyd Dupont]

2 hours ago, RosenMcStern said:

Why do you say so? Keep in mind that the only limit to enchanting is the time and materials it takes. If the sorcerer is confident he does not risk Consequences that might devalue the item, i.e. the item has just a +1/+2 effect, then he will probably manage to enchant one every few weeks. A long lived powerful sorcerer fighter can provide all of his retainers with simple magic items. The big ones, of course, he will keep for himself, particolarly because with a 20+ pool to beat for enchanting it is almost impossible to not suffer some flaws, and that will easily translate to the item bestowing limitations on the enchanter. 

After reading the enchantment rule more carefully. Oh yea, I did misunderstand them. They are cooler than I thought!

[Lloyd Dupont]

I got another idea this morning that might be a winner (more liked by more people). what if project base damage is 1D6, and additional might give a flat +2 damage.

This way a starting professional gifted sorcerer start (55%) can do D6+10 at close range. Always a major wound on a human.
And the powerful one with 85% will do D6+16 at close range (guaranteed major wound on a dragon) or D6+12 at medium range (possible major wound on a dragon)

Or another thought.. to keep dices.. maybe use D4 for elemental dices... mmmm...

and maybe I will leave increase damage and protection as is... have to try it out... toughness change many things...
(except for a reduced coverage for protection of (10 - might)+, instead of 0+)

Edited August 30, 2019 by Lloyd Dupont

[RosenMcStern]

10 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I got another idea this morning that might be a winner (more liked by more people). what if project base damage is 1D6, and additional might give a flat +2 damage.

This way a starting professional gifted sorcerer start (55%) can do D6+10 at close range. Always a major wound on a human.
And the powerful one with 85% will do D6+16 at close range (guaranteed major wound on a dragon) or D6+12 at medium range (possible major wound on a dragon)

Or another thought.. to keep dices.. maybe use D4 for elemental dices... mmmm...

 

Changing the effects of additional Might to a flat bonus is not something I would recommend. Toying with the "size" of the dice is instead a variation that we have tested, and it works well. In fact, the energy/elemental rules are designed to allow precisely this.

Quote

and maybe I will leave increase damage and protection as is... have to try it out... toughness change many things...
(except for a reduced coverage for protection of (10 - might)+, instead of 0+)

Variable coverage for Protection is a splendid idea, and might end up as an option in the official rules. However, with 10-Might you have a "quadratic increase" of usefulness for Protection, as high Might gives both improved armour and improved coverage. Might should improve only one of the two. What about this:

• Protection provides the target with a +1 to armour protection, in addition to any physical armour already worn. The coverage for this magical armour layer is equal to the Size Class of the recipient of the spell. Additional points of Might can either improve armour protection or decrease coverage, at the caster's option.

[Lloyd Dupont]

Thanks Rosen, nice idea indeed!