Battle Modifiers

[piersb]

It seems from reading the Battle System that the Battle Modifiers (eg +5/-5 if your troops outnumber the opponents 2:1, or any given in the GPC for a particular battle) only apply to the Army Commander's tactics roll, and not to any other rolls (eg Battalion Commander's roll, Unit Commander's roll, Weapons rolls).

Am I reading this correctly?

Edited August 29, 2021 by piersb

[piersb]

Also, I'm currently working on the assumption that the Modifiers from the Melee Events roll are reflexive for combat rolls; though this seems like it could be extremely deadly on a 3-5...

Edited August 29, 2021 by piersb

[Morien]

1 hour ago, piersb said:

Am I reading this correctly?

Yes.

[piersb]

Further on the Melee Events roll - it seems like that modifier only holds for Battle and Weapon rolls.

So if my PK's unit is engaged at a -10, I could certainly try Fleeing. Although that would put me Alone and give me a Cowardly check, that might still be a better bet than facing off against a nasty Saxon at -10/+10

[piersb]

18 minutes ago, Morien said:

Yes.

Ta!

[Morien]

2 hours ago, piersb said:

Further on the Melee Events roll - it seems like that modifier only holds for Battle and Weapon rolls.

I would apply it also to the Horsemanship/DEX rolls. It is supposed to represent getting swarmed by the enemy or something like that.

3 hours ago, piersb said:

Also, I'm currently working on the assumption that the Modifiers from the Melee Events roll are reflexive for combat rolls; though this seems like it could be extremely deadly on a 3-5...

By RAW, they are not reflexive (it only talks about the players' unit). I agree with you that in principle they should be reflexive, since the events are certainly written as if they are mirroring each side. I am also very fond of reflexive modifiers in general: if you would be getting a bonus if you were on the other end of the situation, then the enemy should, too! It also serves to make the Battles at least a bit more dangerous than they are at the moment, which is a good thing.

[The Wanderer]

What do you think about applying some modifiers to the followers surveillance roll? For example the outnumber...

I personally find the BoB rules too complicated and want to improve the core book rules but improved!

[The Wanderer]

I mean, if the enemy outnumbers you (and even some terrain modifiers...), that should affect the Followers Surveillance roll.

I've always felt that this roll is too random, as only depending on the Battle of the commander means that with a high value on that almost every combat will end with very little casualties (and every skirmish with a win!) (because the enemy don't roll).

What do you think? (I know the BoBattle system is better but I find it too complicated for me and my players).

[Morien]

You mean survival, not surveillance. 🙂

Yeah, I am pretty sure I have commented elsewhere that I think the Followers' Fate (I think that is what it is called) roll in the skirmish should be an opposed roll (with all modifiers + a modifier on how the PKs do in their fights) between the PK commander and the opposing commander.

As for the Battle System, you will get way too high casualties by rolling Followers' Fate every battle round. The results are too high anyway for a Battle, where casualties of the order of 20% was enough to get the army to retreat.

The way I would do it in Battle is to tie the Followers' Fate directly to the unit commander's roll and how the PKs do in their own melee rolls. Say, for example:
PKs Triumph (i.e. all of them win their melee rolls) = 2% casualties of the whole unit (including the PKs, who of course are immune from these casualties themselves)
PKs Win = 5% casualties
PKs Lose = 10% casualties
PKs Are Crushed (i.e. all of them lost their melee rolls) = 20% casualties
If the unit commander failed the Battle roll, double the casualties. If they fumbled, triple. If they critted, half.
In the case of a 'fractional casualty', carry it over to the next round.
Half of the casualties are wounded, retreating to the Back of the Battle for First Aid in the next battle round. (If the whole unit retreats to the back of the battle, they stick with the unit and are recovered, or they can be recovered when the unit does retreat to the Back of the Battle later).
Of the other half, half are dead and the other half are captured, when fighting against civilized foes. When fighting against Saxons and the like, they are all dead.

Something like that. Obviously, numbers from the top of my head, not playtested, etc.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Morien

[The Wanderer]

27 minutes ago, Morien said:

You mean survival, not surveillance. 🙂

Yeah, I am pretty sure I have commented elsewhere that I think the Followers' Fate (I think that is what it is called)

Sorry for my english, it is pretty rusted 😅 aand I have the core book in spanish!

27 minutes ago, Morien said:

As for the Battle System, you will get way too high casualties by rolling Followers' Fate every battle round. The results are too high anyway for a Battle, where casualties of the order of 20% was enough to get the army to retreat.

Yes, I think we talked about this before. To do just one roll at the end of the battle.

27 minutes ago, Morien said:

The way I would do it in Battle is to tie the Followers' Fate directly to the unit commander's roll and how the PKs do in their own melee rolls. Say, for example:
PKs Triumph (i.e. all of them win their melee rolls) = 2% casualties of the whole unit (including the PKs, who of course are immune from these casualties themselves)
PKs Win = 5% casualties
PKs Lose = 10% casualties
PKs Are Crushed (i.e. all of them lost their melee rolls) = 20% casualties
If the unit commander failed the Battle roll, double the casualties. If they fumbled, triple. If they critted, half.
In the case of a 'fractional casualty', carry it over to the next round.
Half of the casualties are wounded, retreating to the Back of the Battle for First Aid in the next battle round. (If the whole unit retreats to the back of the battle, they stick with the unit and are recovered, or they can be recovered when the unit does retreat to the Back of the Battle later).
Of the other half, half are dead and the other half are captured, when fighting against civilized foes. When fighting against Saxons and the like, they are all dead.

Thank you, I like it!! If I finally use this or a slight modification I'll let you know if it works well 🙂

 

EDIT: I have also thought about calculating the casualties of the enemy "mirroring" the results of the PKs' Followers' Fate. Just to estimate how many prisoners and the loot.

Edited January 19, 2022 by The Wanderer