weapon breakage

[Daxos232]

In MRQ, (if I interpreted this correctly) your weapons don't take damage in combat when you parry a sword with another sword or shield for example. They only take damage if you fumble and you roll "damage weapon" on the fumble table, or you specifically target the opponent's weapon in an attack.

In BRP it says you take damage every time you clash two weapons or a shield together. How does this work exactly? Most of the items only have 15 HP so, they would break pretty quick. I'm sure there's something else to this so that doesn't happen so often, I just overlooked it.

[Smoking Frog]

I can't find this explicitly discussed anywhere, but p277 "Damage to Inanimate Objects" seems to imply that the rule for shields and weapons is the same: damage in excess of the armor points reduces the object's hit points. Of course, weapons don't have armor points, just hit points. How this works with shields is clearly stated: damage in excess of the armor points reduces the shield's hit points. As I understand that, if a shield has 22 hit points, when the parry is successful, any attack doing 22 points or less is simply parried with no negative consequences to the shield or the target. If the attack does more than 22 points, the excess knocks off hp from the shield until it reaches 0 and then the excess damage goes onto the shield's user.

Using the rapier (hp 15) as an example, this would presumably work like this: when the parry succeeds, any attack that does 15 points of damage or less does not hurt the rapier. Damage over 15 would be deducted from the rapier until, presumably, when it reaches 0 it breaks.

I'm also a bit fuzzy on this, so if this is not how it works, someone please let me know. I would like to get this right.

--Karl

[NickMiddleton]

...In BRP it says you take damage every time you clash two weapons or a shield together. How does this work exactly?

Err, that's not quite correct. Check the table on page197. Weapons and shields only take damage when both attack AND parry succeed but are unequal in degree of success.

If the attack and parry are equally successful the attack is stopped completely and no damage is dealt, either to the defender or either object. But if both attack and parry succeed AND one was a greater success than the other, then one of the objects will also be slightly damaged. Which one depends on the specific circumstances: IIRC the worst outcome (for a Parrying object) is a normal Parry against a critical hit, the parrying object deflects the blow enough to reduce it to a Special hit only but takes 4 points of damage itself. The worst that can happen to an attacking weapon is a normal success against a critical parry, which completely blocks the attack AND does two points of damage to the attacking weapon.

Most of the items only have 15 HP so, they would break pretty quick. I'm sure there's something else to this so that doesn't happen so often, I just overlooked it.

Without maintenance most archaic melee weapons did break pretty frequently (and some of them did even with it). The Repair skill will let things be fixed, and GM's could also reasonably allow characters to use their existing Weapon skill as a specific Repair [Weapon], on the basis that in almost all cases if you know how to wield a weapon you know how to effect at least minor running repairs. Bear in mind also that a weapon at 0HP is not destroyed, just broken beyond use as a weapon - again, appropriate Repair (or perhaps Craft) skill might allow it to be reconstituted...

Cheers,

Nick

[NickMiddleton]

I can't find this explicitly discussed anywhere, but p277 "Damage to Inanimate Objects" seems to imply that the rule for shields and weapons is the same: damage in excess of the armor points reduces the object's hit points. Of course, weapons don't have armor points, just hit points. How this works with shields is clearly stated: damage in excess of the armor points reduces the shield's hit points. As I understand that, if a shield has 22 hit points, when the parry is successful, any attack doing 22 points or less is simply parried with no negative consequences to the shield or the target. If the attack does more than 22 points, the excess knocks off hp from the shield until it reaches 0 and then the excess damage goes onto the shield's user.

Using the rapier (hp 15) as an example, this would presumably work like this: when the parry succeeds, any attack that does 15 points of damage or less does not hurt the rapier. Damage over 15 would be deducted from the rapier until, presumably, when it reaches 0 it breaks.

I'm also a bit fuzzy on this, so if this is not how it works, someone please let me know. I would like to get this right.

--Karl

I'm afraid this is incorrect. Weapons (and Shields) in combat in the Gold book work the way I described previously, by the rules-as-written at least. The rules on p277 are for breaking objects and are distinct from combat - they are in fact pretty much the rules from RQIII and haven't been edited to bring them in line with the core BRP rules in the gold book. Damage to parrying weapons in RQIII worked pretty much as you described but that's not how the baseline rules are in BRP. This might help - http://basicroleplaying.com/showthread.php/1519-BASIC-ROLEPLAYING-The-Chaosium-Roleplaying-System?p=24749#post24749

Cheers,

Nick

[windmark8040]

Can anyone elaborate how often weapons have been broken in a game they were either running or playing in?

I only ask because of a MRQ2 mechanic I recently read about variable weapon (and shield) Parry damage.(Parrying a larger weapon causes automatic weapon HP damage.)

[Smoking Frog]

I'm afraid this is incorrect. Weapons (and Shields) in combat in the Gold book work the way I described previously, by the rules-as-written at least. The rules on p277 are for breaking objects and are distinct from combat - they are in fact pretty much the rules from RQIII and haven't been edited to bring them in line with the core BRP rules in the gold book. Damage to parrying weapons in RQIII worked pretty much as you described but that's not how the baseline rules are in BRP. This might help - http://basicroleplaying.com/showthread.php/1519-BASIC-ROLEPLAYING-The-Chaosium-Roleplaying-System?p=24749#post24749

Cheers,

Nick

Thanks, Nick. Ironically, I recently picked up a copy of RQ 3d Edition and have been reading it for comparison.

Cheers.

[sdavies2720]

Can anyone elaborate how often weapons have been broken in a game they were either running or playing in?

I only ask because of a MRQ2 mechanic I recently read about variable weapon (and shield) Parry damage.(Parrying a larger weapon causes automatic weapon HP damage.)

I've had a campaign for a long, long time. First under RQ1, then heavily houseruled RQ3, then under BRP, and now moving to MRQ2. It's happened really rarely, usually as a result of extraordinary circumstances (fumbles, rearguard action against a Giant to let the party escape, etc).

But, having the rule in place does make players keep their craft skills up to date and spend time repairing their equipment when they can. The party also scrounges undamaged weapons and armor from vanquished foes, and there is more than one spare weapon in the party. All that adds to the overall gritty feel of the campaign: rough and scrabble fighters making due with what they can find and celebrating their victories when they can.

So, the damage rules are critical for the ambiance even if they don't have tactical impact very often.

Steve