Non-Caster Incentive

[Tywyll]

Thanks. I may drop my 'INT ticks' limit then. So long as there are enough skills for each character-role to usefully develop, it may not be the problem I feared after all...

What stopped your sorceror developing his weapon skill as fast as the primary warrior? I ask because some folks here might, like me, consider allowing combat-related Powers to warrior-types, perhaps tied to particular weapon-skill percentages (e.g. 100%, 150%, etc). But if such Powers were available, wouldn't the spell-specialists be able to get them just as easily (if they actually had that reason to try)? Which would defeat the object of "making Fighters more Fun"...

My intent, at least as I am thinking now, will probably require something from the player in order to activate. In the case of special combat abilities, I'll probably charge the character hero Points or perhaps even POW, so its a definite effort on the part of the character to learn them. So in the case of casters, they will have to choose between using those HP or POW for magical abilities or combat. It doesn't /stop/ a caster from learning them, but that's not really my desire. It makes someone who focuses have more potency where they focus, and I think that the casters will be busy spending their resources on magical stuff.

That's my initial thought anyway.

[frogspawner]

That's my initial thought anyway.

And a good thought it is, too! At least, I hope so, 'cos I was thinking on similar lines. Reaching, say, 100%+ in a relevant combat skill would allow a character to go on a sort of HeroQuest (must find a new name for them... PowerQuest?) involving sacrifice of (permanent) POW (and maybe a mini-adventure if the GM fancies); thereafter, the Power gained would still cost Power Points to activate.

(BTW, BRP doesn't have 'Hero Points'. What it calls 'Fate Points' are in fact just power points spent on various meta-game effects - like spells everyone would have. I however would rather restrict their use, as I said before, to characters with skills at a more heroic level, like 100%+.)

[TRose]

In my experience, yes. Limiting skill checks and skills were unnecessary in our game.

By the time my sorcerer had the required skills to claim the status of Magus he had a 90% chance to hit with his primary weapon, staff with damage boost 10 on it. Our primary warrior had about 200% in his primary skills and did far more damage.

While the warrior was heavily armored my sorcerer relied on a damage resist 20. In order for armor to make a significant difference to any attack that could routinely get through his damage resist it would effect his skills so badly that it wasn't worth it.

I was going to bring weight penalty too.

Another thing you could do is

1) have certain materials , like Iron, have negative effect on spell casting if the caster has any on his body. have say a -1 to cast a spell for every pound or even once he has on his person.

2) Have certain spells belong to certain magic collages, guilds , societies , etc and these groups are all have certain requirements to join.

3) Magic user could be required to register with he local government After all if you where the local ruler would you not want to keep an eye on any wizard that walked into your Duchy. So while your warrior can just head over to the local tavern when he enters town your mage has to go deal with those *&^@# bureaucrats at the Royal Ministry of Magic.

And please remember we require 3 copies of all forms , hand written and not duplicated by Magic , except forms 1a , 1c 4f 7a and 21d of which we require 5 copies.

[Tywyll]

And a good thought it is, too! At least, I hope so, 'cos I was thinking on similar lines. Reaching, say, 100%+ in a relevant combat skill would allow a character to go on a sort of HeroQuest (must find a new name for them... PowerQuest?) involving sacrifice of (permanent) POW (and maybe a mini-adventure if the GM fancies); thereafter, the Power gained would still cost Power Points to activate.

(BTW, BRP doesn't have 'Hero Points'. What it calls 'Fate Points' are in fact just power points spent on various meta-game effects - like spells everyone would have. I however would rather restrict their use, as I said before, to characters with skills at a more heroic level, like 100%+.)

Hey,

No, I've caught that distinction, though I'll probably use Hero Points from MRQ. Depending on the various ways in which Fate Points can be used, I will probably mix and match a bit. The ability to ablate damage will probably be there for everyone, just due to the lethality of the system. The other effects will have to wait to be categorized once I've read them. I'll probably also mix in super powers (minor) for such things.

That's a good point about the 'Power Quest'. I'm not sure what I'll call it in my setting, or how it will work out. It might simply be something that anyone who has truly mastered an endeavor can achieve... or I might make it require magic or myth to unlock. Not quite certain. Since my setting has been in a number of different systems at one point or antoher, including 3rd Ed wherein Feats just came to you over time, I think it depends on how awesome/overwhelming the Fate Point powers are.

[Lord Twig]

What stopped your sorceror developing his weapon skill as fast as the primary warrior? I ask because some folks here might, like me, consider allowing combat-related Powers to warrior-types, perhaps tied to particular weapon-skill percentages (e.g. 100%, 150%, etc). But if such Powers were available, wouldn't the spell-specialists be able to get them just as easily (if they actually had that reason to try)? Which would defeat the object of "making Fighters more Fun"...

My sorcerer's weapon skills did not go up for a number of reasons.

1. He avoided armor as it subtracted far too much from his sorcery skills.

2. When combat started the first thing he did was cast a spell of some kind, instead of running up and hitting something with his weapon.

3. When we had some down-time for training he trained up his sorcery skills while everyone else trained up combat skills.

This, of course, means that you need a system where magic skills are practiced/trained up. If you use the BRP sorcery system where spells 'just work' then there is no reason to practice them, you can just train your weapon skills instead.

[frogspawner]

Thanks again. I use a system with just one main Magic skill for actual spells, not individual spell-skills, but there are also other magic-related skills to spend practice/training time on (Ceremony, Sensitivity, Enchanting, Loremastery, Alchemy, etc). So hopefully it won't be a problem.

But I'm still worried that it might be: Would lots of combat-related Powers be too tempting for sorceror-type characters?

I wonder whether to invoke the "hours in the day" principle: there are only so many hours in the day to practice your magic/combat/sneaky/holy skills, to keep them up to scratch. Characters who want them top-notch should concentrate their "off hours practice" on one type, or they'd lose out...

[AikiGhost]

I wonder whether to invoke the "hours in the day" principle: there are only so many hours in the day to practice your magic/combat/sneaky/holy skills, to keep them up to scratch. Characters who want them top-notch should concentrate their "off hours practice" on one type, or they'd lose out...

You could just set a hard limit (say 75%) for skills outside your chosen profession. This would create a kind of "class" system to some degree but I guess its the easiest and simplest way of preventing PCs that are good at everything.

Of course you could go the cyberpunk way and just kill off any PC that's starting to get too powerful

[frogspawner]

You could just set a hard limit (say 75%) for skills outside your chosen profession. This would create a kind of "class" system to some degree but I guess its the easiest and simplest way of preventing PCs that are good at everything.

Of course you could go the cyberpunk way and just kill off any PC that's starting to get too powerful

Harsh!

And I don't want to go too far towards a class system, either. Hard limits for non-profession skills feels like a step too far (but I guess that's the same as the 'type' restrictions I was considering).

Maybe if combat powers were dependent on a range of skills, not just one...?

[Tywyll]

Part of what might help would simply be making sure that players use downtime for training. If they have a month to rest between adventures, which skill do they want to bump? Fighters will probably pick weapon skills and casters not.

Ultimately though, the question comes down to not how to keep the wizards from being as good as the fighter in melee, but how to make the fighters 'special' so their options in combat don't degenerate to, "I attack, I defend, I attack, I defend..."

to paraphrase something I read on a forum recently about Feat systems versus pure skill systems, while feats and the mechanics of them might be flawed, the premise is sound. That is, players like their characters to be special and do things that other people can't. Feats/Special abilities allow them that feeling, of being special and capable beyond the guardsman with X% in his skill.

So the Fate Points are definitely a good idea, as are super powers scaled down for more mundane applications.

Another option for how they are learned, depending on world setting, would be as Cult Powers ala the MRQ Elric system. Only fighter, or followers of war gods, could dedicate pow to gain 'specials'. The concept could be broadened to represent guilds and such as well, I suppose, though the sacrifice might have to be reworked a bit.

[frogspawner]

Ultimately though, the question comes down to not how to keep the wizards from being as good as the fighter in melee, but how to make the fighters 'special' so their options in combat don't degenerate to, "I attack, I defend, I attack, I defend..."

Oh, I agree entirely.

I'm not trying to limit wizards' normal combat abilities - but letting them get the fighters' new fun Combat Powers (that we're about to invent) as well as all their magic would spoil the whole idea. Mages would still be more fun (have more options) than Warriors. But how do you prevent them, if fighters earn their Fun Combat Powers by reaching high levels of weapon skill (and what else could the criteria be?) which the wizard-types could also do fairly easily if they chose? How, How...?

Martial Arts.

I actually read the BRP rules for it today. Not being interested in all that inscrutable leaping-about, I hadn't bothered before. (I'm more a Knights-and-Dragons man - well, it is St.George's Day, Huzzah!). But once again the new BRP has given us gold!

Renamed as something innocuous like "Weapon Specialism (weapon type)" or some such, to avoid the oriental overtones that don't suit every campaign, they are a thing Warriors can have, but sorcerors/priests don't. So special abilities tied to them, at 50%, 100%, or whatever, can give the fun back to the fighters - and just the fighters. Yes!