Brian Duguid
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Posts posted by Brian Duguid
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3 hours ago, Demishadow23 said:
I did in fact mean KING of Sardar through my mistake apparently revealed the PRINCE of Sartar comic which I didn't know existed. I'll check that out too.
Well that's a complete bonus!
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2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:
no and probably, until you are familiar with the world, the lore, etc.. KOS may lose you in all its "options". Well... it lost me 🙂
however it is very interesting to read to get more flavors, colors, etc.. Once you know the canon (not all of course, but enough to let you say "ok, now I am confident with Glorantha"), it will (or may ? I can't guarantee anything 😛 ) provide your a big thickness of the world
I find this an odd view. Think back to 1992 when this came out. How much information was available at that time to the RQ-buying public regarding Dragon Pass, the Grazelands, Sartar, Orlanthi culture and mythology, the Colymar clan? Almost nothing. And yet KoS set it all out, alongside a detailed history, a proper account of the Lightbringers Quest. There was nothing else that covered Orlanthi customs and cultures in detail until 2009, seventeen years later (Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes), and with that out-of-print, there remains nothing until next year's Sartar Homeland book.
And no, back in 1992, we absolutely did not need to have read all the lore and material you can get today to find this book both valuable and illuminating.
To be fair, I am being a little contrary, but I seriously don't believe you need to bury yourself in facts before you grok KoS.
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41 minutes ago, Oldskolgmr said:
With the Glorantha Sourcebook, The Guide, and Mythology out now is reading the King Of Sartar (KOS) still very important to understanding Glorantha (as a setting for games)?
Yes.
All those other sources (Mythology maybe a little less so) present Glorantha as a fixed world, at least up until a specific date. Geography and history are broadly fixed, although not everything is explained. This provides a base from which you can understand other Gloranthan material, and run a game that you can be reasonably confident will be compatible with future Chaosium material.
King of Sartar has some of that as well: the Composite History of Dragon Pass, information on Sartarite customs, the Grazelanders etc. Some of that is available elsewhere in more coherent form, and some of it is probably now superseded, or will be when the RQG Sartar homeland book appears, and later the Grazelands homeland book (fingers crossed).
But KoS is still, I think, the best source where the game world's creator presented it as deliberately incoherent, with a range of competing or unreliable narratives which cannot all be true. Obviously, Your Glorantha Will Vary. But Chaosium's canonical Glorantha does not, and we've been given the impression that the post-1625 timeline presented in forthcoming books will at least start out as a pre-determined series of events, even if the choices made in your game alter that somewhat.
Until that Chaosium campaign appears, KoS is the original source for future history, and for a significant rag-bag of odds-and-ends that can be plundered as you will. The key part of that future history appears in The Guide to Glorantha, so if you have that plus the Glorantha Sourcebook, you won't gain many new facts just from KoS. But I much prefer the seemingly random presentation in KoS, because it pushes against the whole idea that Glorantha is coherent and knowable.
Tl;dr: There are better sources for facts. But KoS is the book that tries hardest not to pin the butterfly's wings.
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Lots of good stuff so far. @Demishadow23 - you mentioned Prince of Sartar, but do you have King of Sartar?
Prince of Sartar is the webcomic (I can't link it because it has a dodgy site certificate and is blocked by my network).
King of Sartar is essential in understanding Glorantha (well, small parts of it) as a world of possibility, as opposed to the monomythomaniacal approach of almost everything else.
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Quoting Sandy Petersen: "The Blue Moon is undead. It was killed during the Gods War and buried ... as a potato. Literally. Potatoes are the Blue Moon plant, because they give life in the ground".
Make of that what you will.
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4 hours ago, That_Old-Hammer said:
That the Fetch was an intrinsic thing, one that whilst capable of being destroyed or broken, was not granted by a god so, unlike Rune Points could not be taken away by a God. The awakened part of the soul.
My thoughts, for what they are worth. The fetch is part of the shaman's soul yes, but it is awakened through contact with a greater entity, and all the shamanic abilities come through contact with the same. The greater entities (RQG pg 359) are traditional for any given culture: a Telmori shaman does not contact Kolat, or Jakaboom, for example, they contact Hykim / Mikyh.
When the shaman first awakens their fetch, they pray to their tribe's associated greater entity to do this (pg 354). They do so by sacrificing POW directly to that entity.
I think it's not unreasonable to assume that any greater entity which sees fit to awaken a prospective shaman's fetch will also have the power to take it away again.
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If it's new art, your artists should be doing it for you. If it's old art, it's dead easy to make a pure white background transparent in Affinity Photo (which many JC creators use), and a bit more work if the background is not clean. I can help with that, if it's not too many images.
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10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:
What issue? Thanks!
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On 11/11/2023 at 6:33 PM, scott-martin said:
Canonically there's a giant lizard and a giant chimpanzee on Loral, which might give you what you need along with a giant butterfly, "king" hydra, a flying turtle and an otherwise undocumented giant radioactive pteranodon.
To hammer home the kaiju references even further, Jamie Revell's article on Loral in Tradetalk magazine named the giant chimpanzee "Queen Kweng" and the hydra as "Mojira".
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If you have access to Arcane Lore, it's worth comparing the Golden Age map from that (pages 61-64) with both Mythology (page 86 in the PDF version) and The Guide (pages 682-683).
You'll note that the "sources" (K, DC, GC, MN) come from Greg's earlier text and sketches; they were omitted in the Guide; and they reappear in Mythology, alongside others, some of which are fairly obviously traceable (UL to Uz Lore, and SC to GRoY). From that, and the content of the maps, I think that what Mythology is presenting is intended to be a more comprehensive effort, with closer fidelity to certain source material, than was the case in the Guide, which was perhaps simplified in some areas.
For example, you'll find the Dragon Ladder, Tholm's Path, and Imperial Palace on the Arcane Lore and Mythology maps, but not shown with those names in the Guide. Tinsnip Mountain is referred to rather than Nida (in the Golden Age era), and Keetela has reverted to being Ganderland. Places like Mernita have crept in.
Is the Guide out of canon? No, it was just prepared from different scholarship at a different time. The God Time map is not the God Time territory; these are hypothetical reconstructions based on journeys in myth, not aerial overviews from Gloranthoogle satellites drifting across the Sky Dome.
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And if you make it through that, here's a shorter bonus video, on the depiction of black elves in older RQ books:
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I've made a little "page-turn" video for anyone who wants to find out a bit more about The Voralans and see if it might be of interest:
You can still buy the book here: http://tiny.cc/voralans.
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Catalogue of the gods combined chart (popping these here now in the hope this will appear on Redbubble at some point!)
Bottom left text block:
First line text justification is odd.
These illustrated divine genealogies were product -> These illustrated divine genealogies were a product
It was very stylied -> stylised
heiroglyphic -> hieroglyphic
part of series -> part of a series
Top right text block:
Sympolism -> Symbolism
Deities
Daytazar -> Dayzatar
---
Page 86 Golden Age map:
Aldyra's Tree -> Aldrya's Tree
Sloriging Marsh -> Slorifing Marsh
Page 91 Early Lesser Darkness map:
Aldyra's Tree -> Aldrya's Tree
Page 97 Middle Lesser Darkness map:
Dakaputlo Elamle -> Dakoputlo Elamle
Page 103 Late Lesser Darkness map:
Dakaputlo Elamle -> Dakoputlo Elamle
Edernef -> Endernef
Page 113 Grey Age map:
Reinder People -> Reindeer People
Robber's Ruin -> Robber's Rain (? - it was Robber's Rain in Uz Lore, and that fits what is described in the text) - also on page 116
These are numbered as per the PDF:
p.22, top of second column, "It sits in wide valley" -> "It sits in a wide valley"
p.27 print, p.31 PDF, second column Orxili paragraph, "its six limbs grappled with the dragons to destroy then" -> "its six limbs grappled with the dragons to destroy them"
p.30 print, p.34 PDF, second column Nakala paragraph, the quotation marks following the word "Nakala" are the incorrect type
p.35 print, p.39 PDF, first column third paragraph final line, "myth for these important, deities" -> "myth for these important deities"
p.35 print, p.39 PDF, second column paragraph beginning "When Orlanth", "Once time they were alone in a spruce grove" -> "One time they were alone in a spruce grove"
p.43 print, p.47 PDF, first paragraph, "caused many deities fight againt them" -> "caused many deities to fight against them".
p.49, 5th paragraph, "It was plain to all that the old ways and order of the world was gone" -> "It was plain to all that the old ways and order of the world were gone".
p.50, paragraph beginning "In Hell", "Ehlim" -> "Ehilm".
p.52, paragraph beginning "The world was renewed", two sets of quotation marks have crept outside the left hand margin - it may be deliberate (also occurs on p.38) but it looks odd.
p.54, 1st paragraph, "Her origin is mysterious and subject to speculation, but imply that she is the ghost of Glorantha, Mother of the Universe." -> "Her origin is mysterious and subject to speculation, but implies that she is the ghost of Glorantha, Mother of the Universe."
p.57, paragraph beginning "The Inhuman King", "a demigod leader of the dragonewt races. This was considered a mortal race, although blessed with magical power." If the first "races" is correct, then the second use should be "These are considered mortal races". More simply, amend "dragonewt races" -> "dragonewt race".
p.59, paragraph beginning "The Lightbringer cult", missing full stop after 115 ST.
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My copy just arrived, amazing how much is packed into this book!
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1 hour ago, Joerg said:
When I reference pdf page numbers, I look at the number printed on the page (or count onward from a nearby page which has a number printed on it), as the automatic page count of the pdf reader tends to disagree. That way page numbers are an accurate attribution.
Well, sure, I do too. But people need to know that the page number displayed on the "printed" PDF page and the page number displayed on the actual hardcopy printed books are different in this particular case.
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13 hours ago, Cassius said:
The boxed text page 132 is particularly interesting. It clearly explains how the unity of the gods and the diversity of cults can be reconciled.
Page 136 of the PDF, for avoidance of confusion for anyone trying to find it in the digital version (the page numbering is different in the print and PDF versions).
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The last session in my own game ended in very early Storm Season 1625. Kallyr summoned all the tribes to Boldhome, where she announced her LBQ plans. Leika attended along with other key Colymar representatives, including the group of sabretooth killers, dragonslayers, vampire killers, fire-demon killers etc that the adventurers had become. Although Leika mistrusts Kallyr, she recognises her legitimacy as Prince of Sartar, and would prefer to have the chance to influence her plans rather than sit on the sidelines.
In my game, Kallyr started her speech to those assembled with the Lightbringers Summons, which made it difficult if not impossible for most of the attendees to refuse her, however ill-advised a gambit they considered the LBQ to be.
The Seven-Tailed Wolf, on Jonstown Compendium, has an extensive treatment of the 1625 Short LBQ, including a fair bit about the relationship between Leika and Kallyr. I've also gone back to King of Sartar, so may play it differently to that. I think it's important to bring in elements from the adventurers' own lives - returning foes, foreshadowing of other narrative arcs etc.
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14 hours ago, Russ Massey said:
But is it of utility to a GM who just wants to run a game of RQ?
Partly this depends on the extent to which your game tends towards the mythic. In a couple of recent sessions of mine, the adventurers travelled magically to Valind's Glacier and helped Valind defend against a hero-plane version of the Kalikos expedition, before Varchulanga herself showed up (mother of sea monsters). There is certainly material in Mythology which may influence how I run that sort of thing again.
At a prosaic level, the 16-page Universal Cult Format presents a clearer version of the basic "rules" for cults than is in the core rulebook. And the cult distribution charts may be helpful to a GM concerned about adherence to the game-world's canon.
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23 minutes ago, Jape_Vicho said:
Where can we find that chart? Doesn't show up in my copy. It appears in the store page but you can't make anything out of it bc of its low res.
If you bought the hardcover and/or PDF from Chaosium, it's available as one of three bonus files in the download page. Go back to your order and click the red download arrow and it's there. It wasn't there at launch, but was added a few hours later.
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You've had some good recommendations above. I'll especially second the recommendations for the Glorantha Sourcebook, and all the pointers towards the Jonstown Compendium. This is a very good starting point:
However, I'll take issue with one thing.
On 9/29/2023 at 9:10 AM, Sparklelord said:I have just started up Runequest and read the basic materials, ie. the boxed starter set and the rulebook, beastiary, GM screen materials. But now I am a little confused as to what books I should consider buying and reading next to get a good idea of the Glorantha setting and be able to provide detailed backgrounds and descriptions for my players.
You already have all the books you need to do that. Everything from here onwards is just gravy.
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16 hours ago, Richard S. said:
Any other general thoughts or advice would be appreciated too. Thanks!
I'm just checking, but hopefully you are already familiar with @M Helsdon's Men of the West, because if not, it's a hugely accessible resource for much of this stuff. The section on the Seshnelan Holari covers several of the caste restrictions already mentioned in this thread, along with details of the Martial Beast Societies, illustrations etc.
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The adventurers in the campaign that I run recently killed a Telmori ituvanu shaman's wolfbrother.
The consequences have not yet played out, but they'll be finding out soon enough! 🐺😤
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21 minutes ago, Joerg said:
Telmori can get quite old (at least those descended from Ostling and Onelisin, few others ever received a name in history). Do these bonded beast brothers gain protection from old age like the butterfly companions of Chalana Arroy healers?
In my mind, this terminology confuses us. The "wolf brothers" are Telmori, they regard their two-legged companions as part of their own community. They bond with them for life when the two-legged are old enough for their adulthood initiation (no doubt the four-legged ones find it frustrating waiting for the two-legged pups to mature more slowly). If the two-legged companion dies, I'd expect that the four-legged Telmori do not bond again with another two-legged sibling.
It makes no sense to think that the two-legged ones offer the four-legged some kind of "protection from old age" unless we privilege the two-legged partner in the relationship. I think all we can sensibly say is that we don't know how long the four-legged can live. This is where much of the previous official material fails, in my view, to make a sufficient imaginative leap. Perhaps there are four-legged Telmori living to a great age, and they play an active part in Telmori history that writers have so far failed to reveal. The description in The Coming Storm (pp 126-127) certainly implies that, without then going on to follow through.
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5 minutes ago, Joerg said:
Do characters or beast brothers whose companion dies remain orphaned, or do they form new bonds?
The Coming Storm says:
QuoteIf the wolf brother dies, or is killed, another may not be found.
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RuneQuest Rules Q&A
in RuneQuest
Posted
On page 314 of the RQG core rulebook:
But on page 194:
I believe page 194 is correct, so it may be worth adding a clarification to page 314 to the effect that:
"Rune magic spells always take effect at strike rank 1, unless more than 1 magic point is used to boost the spell; see page 194 for further details".