Brian Duguid

On 4/13/2023 at 12:37 AM, g33k said:

First off -- congratulations again to Jason, and to Chaosium more broadly, for getting this new edition out (and doing it so swiftly)!

You're remembering they are all off at a convention right now, yes? 🙂

On 4/13/2023 at 12:37 AM, g33k said:

Onward then to my question: is there any thought that the new ORC version of BRP might support a "Community Content" program?  It seems self-evident that ORC products are designed NOT to require such a thing.  I expect full games (such as Toxandria) will be released entirely-independently (albeit with appropriate branding/logos & ORCish notices up-front).

But it looks to me as if smaller-scale products -- on the level of the old "Monograph" line -- would really benefit from having a "Community Content" program supporting them, collecting them for people to find, etc ...

I don't see what you're looking for. We often see "Community Content" like Jonstown Compendium or Miskatonic Repository as if it is some kind of shop window that helps us easily find the content we want. But it's first and foremost an IP licensing scheme. JC and MR creators pay Chaosium a royalty on all our products to use their IP, within the broad set of guidelines issued for the specific CC programme. That's on top of a royalty we pay to DriveThruRPG to act as the actual shop window. Added together, it is a 50% cut of all sales. Chaosium police (with a pretty light touch) how the content is used so that JC creators don't duplicate what is in the copyright products, or detract from it, but complement it in a way that hopefully drives sales for the entire product line.

Importantly, Chaosium are the publisher of this Community Content. It carries their branding and they will undoubtedly take something down that they feel is detrimental to their image.

With BRP UGE, there is nothing to license and no royalties to pay, unless you wanted to try and cross-license some other Chaosium IP as well, and then they'll ultimately treat you exactly the same as any other licensee, like the French publisher of RQG. They'll be very selective, as this is more closely related to their valuable core IP and the associated branding.

Sure, there are advantages to the support with publishing that the CC programs provide, and the shop window aspect, but with the ORC licensed systems you're out of the playground and into the wilderness. You don't need to ask, you just create, and sell. Plenty of people already do this on DTRPG, ORC just lets them adapt an existing rules system if they prefer to do so, or to sell add-ons to it.

Maybe you could articulate more clearly exactly what you'd want from a BRP CC program that would justify the loss of freedom that BRP UGE under ORC has already provided? 

10 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

I cant get why it is a good sales strategy to release the BRP Book and Rivers of London books as pfd:s first but a bad strategy to do it for the Cults Book.

I have some sympathy on this point. I think the marketing people will tell us that a release has more impact if all the publicity coordinates to a single milestone. Sharing the same publicity twice probably has lower impact the second time around. I suspect the Cults strategy is better than the RoL or BRP strategies.

I expect the BRP one was largely about being the first ORC-licensed product on the market. That was probably worth more in terms of potential attention than waiting months for the print version and watching several others scoop first-mover advantage. It's in a different marketing game, where first move was probably seen as more important than anything else. RQG is not in that game.

I'm only guessing, but I imagine that Rivers of London was put out in PDF so they could hit the big London convention, Dragonmeet, in early December last year: that's where I saw it and heard all about it, and the UK market may be seen as more important given the nature of the product. Just guessing, to be honest.

Do RuneQuest people live in complete isolation from the rest of the world? I'm with @g33k here. Seriously?

I've just watched a trailer for a film I won't be able to watch until seven months time. I've been watching one of the Jonstown Compendium authors sharing preview text and art for his next book for what feels like 12 months ahead of its release (and I saw a physical preview copy of that five months ago - wait, am I an influencer now?)

It's called "hype". It's about raising anticipation, about getting people excited, in the hope that excitement will prove infectious. And marketing the Cults books to the non-core audience is not about selling the Cults books to them, at least, that's surely not the sole point: it's about building brand awareness, about getting people aware that there's something exciting going on over here. That takes time. Yes, they may buy the Starter Set first. But it may be the marketing of the Cults books, with all their amazing art and content, that makes people aware this is a product line which is alive and kicking and filled with cool things. You build to a big bang and you make as much of it as you can. You want actual physical books that people can open and hold in their hands and tell their friends how impressed they were. You don't dribble out a few PDFs for the people who will buy it anyway, whenever it lands, only to have that wider audience tell you at Gencon "what's the fuss? You were selling this as PDF four months ago - it's old news".

16 hours ago, g33k said:

I'mlanning to start sharing some BRP & RQ stuff with some of my not-yet-RQ gaming friends (pitching the system to them) so I want to be accurate in my shares:  are these pregens planned to be a freebie add-on to the "Starter Set"?

Or will they be a separately-purchased item?

The announcement here said they were coming (later in 2022, but never mind) for the Starter Set; and all the human pre-gens for the Starter Set can be freely downloaded. I'm adding 1+1 to make 2, but Your Arithmetic May Vary. :-).

16 hours ago, Jason D said:

Here's a sample character: 

Looks carefully at necklace pendant. Wait ... is that a Lunar trollkin? Do those rose-tinted glasses mean that they like to see the whole world as if they were within the Glowline?!

I'm going from https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/k/kajabor/, and will be interested to see if the Prosopaedia matches what is shown there.

7 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

This seems to be saying that Mee Vorala needs someone to chew her food for her. As has been noted before, Mee Vorala doesn’t even need to wait for you to die to get her teeth into you — see, for example, this book review.

Yes, I've read that book (Entangled Life), and will happily second the review's recommendation.

I think we're in the fairly standard place here of trying to define the soft edge between:

• things in real life that are transferable to Glorantha, most of which we know is observed to work in the same way as real life (humans eat food, they derive nourishment from it, they excrete), but where the cause and the explanation are not precisely the same i.e. the need to eat may have a mythic rather than evolutionary origin, and there are probably no gut bacteria or flora;
• those things in Glorantha which work differently because the mythic logic leeds to a different form of action (diseases result from exposure to a spirit, not to harmful bacteria - because spirits exist and bacteria do not); the observed outcome may differ, and Gloranthan disease can do things that real-world disease cannot.

Regarding decay, I think we observe the same phenomenon in Glorantha as in our world: dead things disintegrate, and they probably provide nourishment for new living things (plants). Metal also rusts, and rocks eventually crumble. I do wonder about the source of soil in Glorantha if Orlanth, Aldrya, Mee Vorala and others did not in some myth or other act upon the surface of Gata to create it.

Organic decay, rust, and disintegration are different processes in the real world. Must they have different mythic causes in Glorantha? Does rust in Glorantha require the presence of water and oxygen? Is it simply an inevitability of Time (ageing, as David mentions for organic bodies)?

I think it's an open question, and we have some degree of choice here, because it matters very little other than to those of us writing mythology for Mee Vorala for fun in the background. We are certainly not bound to proceed from how things work in the real world.

In the real world, much or perhaps most organic matter can decay quite happily without the presence of fungi. Fungi are especially good at degrading cellulose, which suggests to me something about the relationship between Aldrya and Mee Vorala. In my headcanon, things that are too small to see in Glorantha i.e. are invisible, are spirits, which are likewise unseen. Decay can therefore perhaps be caused by visible fungi, invisible fungal spirits, and by other invisible spirits (acting as bacteria do).

None of this implies that Mee Vorala requires someone to chew her food, or that she can't dine also upon the living. But it suggests to me that her children are at the very least not the only agents of decay in Glorantha, that there are other forces which may work to rust metal, disintegrate mountains, and digest dead organic matter. And I do wonder about the role of Entropy within Time - we know that Time was quite literally made from what remained of the dead god of Entropy.

4 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

It looks like the first batch is already written. Jason posted this on Facebook:

Ooooh. Where on facebook?

Nice to see the different colours for the leatherettes, but hopefully they will have the cover art internally, unlike previous ones. I'm not optimistic on that front, though.

22 hours ago, DrGoth said:

"All diseases are caused by spirits, magic, curses, etc. I am not sure what a “naturalistic” disease would be." Jeff October 8, 2020.

As already noted in this thread, there are other causes for disease in Glorantha. From the current RQ rulebook:

Quote

"Bacteria, viruses, or genetics do not cause disease in Glorantha. Instead, disease is caused by disease spirits, the presence of Chaos, curses, divine anger, and even Runic imbalance. Pollution, such as rotting waste, foul air, or impure water, increases the likelihood of disease. Spiritual purity through proper ritual behavior, ablutions, etc., and divine favor can all reduce the likelihood of disease."

The main diseases listed in the rulebook have something in common: they are entities that consume parts of the living, specifically, characteristic points. None of these entities consume dead matter, so far as we know. That feels like a useful distinction to me.

We know that Mallia was originally a spirit of healing and fertility, born in the Darkness, who was later corrupted. Mee Vorala, whose fungi feed on dead matter (mostly?), is also an entity of the Darkness.

What about "decay"? As David points out, fungi feed upon decaying matter but may not be the source of decay. It's worth noting that Time has its origin in the the devouring of the Chaos god of entropy, Kajabor, by Arachne Solara. Entropy - the tendency towards annihilation is built into Time, but is constantly counteracted by the cycle of life, the birth and rebirth of souls, and the growth of new living matter.

Mallia is an agent of Chaos and works to accelerate the annihilation of life.

Mee Vorala is an agent of life (she has the Fertility rune, according to the online prosopaedia). She is also an agent of Darkness, and there does seem to be an underlying pattern of consumption, eating, and therefore hunger, amongst the Darkness tribe. I think she is the goddess of consuming dead matter in order to nourish new life. But as one of the trio of Darkness "form" deities (with Sokazub and Kyger Litor), she predates death; so perhaps this is a role that she acquired, or a potential that she always held.

There will be more on this in a forthcoming book about the voralans on the Jonstown Compendium, so I'll watch this thread with interest.

Lots of food for thought in this thread ...

There have been a couple of more detailed reviews of this book recently, so if you are in two minds about whether it might be for you, feel free to take a look:

http://rlyehreviews.blogspot.com/2023/03/jonstown-jottings-77-children-of-hykim.html

https://akhelas.com/2023/03/10/review-children-of-hykim/

I'm not expecting to make any more updates to the book until the Cults of RuneQuest volume featuring the Hykimi cults is published, and that is likely to only be a short supplement highlighting and advising how to deal with any differences that arise.

7 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

(Not just a case of pasting the images on top, but resizing/trimming, and also in many cases adjusting/revising the text/layout so that the images can be showcased to maximum advantage.)

If it's for print, also changing the colourspace and colour profile of the images to avoid weird shit happening in the print process. I'm sure Nick can advise on that if necessary!

Many thanks for everything you are doing with this tool, Phil, including your support for the community content creators!

I will have a play with it and test out the COH elements when I get some time.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

When they get "Insight (totem beast)", is that in addition to the normal "Insight (own species)" that everyone usually gets? Or is "Insight (gopher)" applicable both to gophers and to Gord-un folk?

My intention was in addition. So "Insight (bear)" for a Rathori.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

And if it's in addition, do you think they should get "Insight (Human)" or "Insight (Hsunchen)" or "Insight (Akkari)" etc.?

Yes, "Insight (human)" at the standard starting level. I don't see Hsunchen or Akkari as a separate species, not for this skill.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Likewise, Customs (...), Human? Hsunchen? Akkari?

In the RQG core rulebook, "Customs (X)" is per social group, so I'd have "Customs (Akkari)" etc, similar to "Customs (Grazeland Pony Breeders)" as a Homeland cultural skill bonus in the core book.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Homeland Lore, I'm going to put the main homeland sections such as Ralios for Alekki, Caroni, Damali. Basmoli will get Prax, Pent for Gord-un, and Puma... I'll leave it blank, the player can fill it in. Anyone can change what gets put in automatically anyway.

That seems reasonable.

I guess it's also worth noting that we can expect (source: Well of Daliath website) the official versions of the Rathori, Mraloti, Pralori, Basmoli and Telmori cults in one of the Cults of RuneQuest books some time in the next year or so. They will almost certainly not match mine precisely.

Who is the cover artist?

31 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Do Rathori get Transform Self?

Yes. "For the cult of Rathor, use normal Hsunchen spells". The normal spells are on page 25-26 of the current version of TCoH, and include Transform Self.

32 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Do Uncolings get Extension?

As per page 25 of the current edition, Extension is a standard spell for all Hsunchen tribes unless otherwise noted. The text for the Uncolings seems to imply they may not have it, but that's an error. It was one of the very first tribes I wrote up and I just never edited it to be more in line with the others. Oops!

35 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Humakti magic is excellent for killing Telmori, and mostly useless to Telmori themselves for any other purpose. A wolf can't hold a sword.  So why is it that cult attracts 10% of the population?

Perhaps for the 6/7 days when they don't normally take wolf form, don't have an invulnerable hide, and may need other ways to deal with antagonists?

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm a bit stuck on what to enter for "Worship (...)" and "Cult Lore (...)" for some of them though! Many are obvious, such as references to Akkar in the text on the Akkari, Telmor is obvious for the Telmori, but some are not. Does anyone fancy having a go at making a list of what the cult name would be for the various hsunchen peoples detailed in the book?

Akkari	Akkar
Flari	Flara
Hogari	Hogar
Kloisari	Kloisara
Lotari	Lotara
Rathori	Rathor
Rinkoni	Rinkona
Sabadari	Sabadar
Uncoling	Uncol
Zonati	Zonat
Alekki	Alekk
Caroni	Carona
Damali	Damala
Falani	Falana
Galanini	Galana
Telmori	Telmor
Didelfi	Papa Possum
Mraloti	Mralota
Pralori	Pralor
Basmoli	Basmol
Puma	Puma tradition

I've typed them in above in the forms used in the book: all the names above appear in the book except for the puma people (see below). Note that some of the deities / ancestors have dual names e.g. both Mralot and Mralota appear in different sources. I've used the ones above which are used in the book. In some cases they don't agree with other Gloranthan publications, sometimes deliberately.

The table is missing the Gord-Un tribe (from v1.2 of the book), whose ancestor in the book is Grandfather Gopher or Grandmother Gopher (take your pick!)

In the book, it has Most Ancient First Grandmother and Most Ancient First Grandfather as the ancestral entities for the puma people (SheHe was the "first" Puma, but is perhaps analogous to Mikyh/Hykim). But those are very long names, so I've suggested using "Puma tradition".

And in fact you could use that as a cop-out throughout, with "Worship (Rathori tradition)", "Cult Lore (Damali tradition)", etc. That might be best.

1 hour ago, hipsterinspace said:

The Coming Storm mentions it in their section about the Telmori religion.

Thanks, and also to @mfbrandi for the Anaxial's Roster reference.

In my headcanon, Telmor's teeth have a passing relation to Orlanth's sword (Humakt) in their role in slaying the Sun, and so Humakti Telmori are just a bringing back together of two distantly related mythic traditions. Albeit probably not one that anyone acknowledges, just a bit of synchronicity.

I would have sworn blind that there is a myth somewhere about Telmor having eaten / slain the Sun somewhere, but having spent a bit of time trying to find it again, I've had no success.

An entirely fair concern. I have colleagues who are using AI in a professional capacity, and we are very careful about what we use as source data for the AI we develop ourselves (all sourced carefully with clear permission), and what use we can make (if any) of open-access chatbots like ChatGPT (with great care and only with information that is properly in the public domain). That latter bit gets very difficult when there's no transparency from the developers about their source data or how they process it. An absolute minefield.

Yes, much better to ask these sorts of questions of some of the community's well-known Gloranthan lorehounds, and get instead seven slightly different versions of what is actually true in Glorantha 🙂. The old ways are the best!

I wonder whether the makers of Zistor attempted a sort of Turing Test for their creation's intelligence: we will know we have succeeded when it behaves like us, because we know that we are intelligent.

One of the ways we know that ChatGPT lacks intelligence is because it generally shows different types of unintelligent behaviour to those that we display: it is often simply ignorant (as in these examples, where it has too little training data to work from), rather than showing internal bias (its bias is systemic). And where it is ignorant, it confabulates i.e. makes things up to fill in the gaps, partly because it's primarily a language model rather than a knowledge model.

That fingerprint is all over these examples. A lack of adequate training data means that it fills in the gaps with garbage pieced together as best it can. It's job is to mimic language, not to be an expert.

It would be more interesting if it was actually trained on several decades of Gloranthan publications*. Then we'd get to see where the real gaps in our knowledge are, and how a God Learner might go about filling them.

*IP owners: don't worry, I'm not suggesting anyone actually does this, just saying it would hypothetically be interesting 🙂.

Not sure that I want to spin off a big discussion about AI - but one thing I find interesting about ChatGPT is that it seems to have been given that over-earnest writing style characteristic of high-school essay writers who are trying too hard to please the teacher.

Right now: #8 of all bestselling titles on DTRPG.

And the #1 best-selling community content title: