Wheel Shield

I see that the next two cult books (Lightbringers, Earth Goddesses) are going to be at GenCon.

And GenCon is not far off (like August 3rd).

Will those folks not attending the Con be able to order copies from the Chaosium store at that time?

To head off potential confusion, I am not asking about pre-orders or advance sales. I’m just wondering if those books are available for purchase at the Con (not a forgone conclusion), will the Chaosium website be ready for orders too? I’m planning out hobby expenses for August, you see.

Thank you Jajagappa! I’ll check that section!

@Darius West this preview edition, was it a convention special release?

5 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

8 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Wrong game.

Yeah yeah. I used to freelance for that game. That’s likely to happen with me for a long time. Be assured I know we’re talking about Glorantha.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

As Nick noted above, Star Captains are stars (from the Sky Dome) who fell to the earth to save some remnant population during the Great Darkness. Pole Star, as the General of the Sky and choreographer of the Great Dance of the Sky, sometimes directs them. If you have the Red Book of Magic, check out the Call Shanasse and Summon Luxite spells. Luxites are more the common sky beings (remember atop the Sky Dome is a whole world of sky people), Shanasse are more powerful (think angelic beings). Star Captains are the next level up from that: demigods or minor gods.

While catching up on this thread I discovered some interesting lore about Kallyr that you helped archive, jajagappa. At least, your comment led to it. Some Jeff notes (and I assume not formally published yet). It doesn’t say a lot about Star captains but it does give insights.

Jajagappa points to Jeff’s FB notes on Kallyr

why not just quote FB directly? Not everyone wants to go on FB, so I used an available alternative

5 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

?  I thought Orlanth's birthplace was Kero Fin.  That's his mother, but she is also a mountain and mountains don't travel around.

I share the same question Sten!

Martin’s comment about Star entities being guardians of Orlanthi cities is interesting too. The references in the Guide about star captains fall to Golarion to save people.. why I assumed that meant people / folk friendly to the Sky.

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- I see in enough details what could be Orlanth's hall  and how natives are (and I may be wrong -from canon-, don't, know, but I have an idea)

- I have no clear idea at (h)all what could be Yelm's palace and the sky in general, and how natives are. (Will the cults book answer ? I hope so)

 

So I understand @Wheel Shield

The only things I know (or I believe, do not hesitate to correct me) :

- they were sky's citizen,

- they saved some orlanthi people (culture),

- they took opportunity to enjoy orlanthi women (culture). How cold should be the sky for them

- and then they found orlanthi tribes. (culture and pantheon)

I share the feeling that I could imagine Orlanth’s Hall but have a much more vague (or nonexistent) notion of what exists in the Sky. I guess I jump right to Yelm’s throne. I dunno, I guess I find the idea of heroic star heroes at some lower point in solar hierarchy to be intriguing. Hence my interest in star captains. Truth be told I haven’t been as interested in the Sky pantheon until I started pulling on this thread.

@all Solar Tribe and Sky Tribe (euphemisms) are the same thing, right? There’s no difference, right?

5 hours ago, JRE said:

Glorantha being as it is, I am surprised more people have not tried to repeat Kallyr's "get a cool star on your brow" quest. Maybe it is because she has always been an ambiguous figure, or that the sky is not always seen as friendly by the Orlanthi, but I am sure some people must know about it. Her actions fit with Nick's description, including the "other opinions exist" sidenote. Honestly I do not know if she embodies part of a star, or if she is the lover of one, and whether he (being the Sky as it is, I will dare say that all the Star Captains are male) is Rigsdal, Polestar, Polaris or some unnamed Star Captain.

I didn’t think to look harder at Kallyr. Duh. Which I guess is missing the forest for the trees cause she’s got a star on her forehead. It never occurred to me that she could be the lover of a Star captain or Rigsdal / Polestar.

it might be that I had a masculine orlanthi mindset of “go to the Hero Plane and steal someone’s powers.” Interesting. As you’ll see a post I plan to make, looking at Kallyr leads me to some lore disclosed in 2020.

Well cool. They strike me as a good topic for an adventure or a heroquest. Get one as an ally, or to obtain some specialized power or rune spell. And obviously the initiative was taken to write a Jonstown Scenario.

Star Captain

I have heard the words before. Thirty years ago a GM, Doug,  mentioned them and I asked what they were. I was told “sky people.” Doug was big into learning Glorantha by playing Runequest, so he never elaborated further and we drifted in different directions..

These days, I hear the term occasionally. I saw that a recent Jonstown Compenium scenario features a Star Captain. Cool. I might get it. That said, I started digging for what has been established in canon about star captains. There is surprisingly not much. I checked all the references in the Guide to Glorantha. Star Captains are almost always defined by their actions alone. For example, “Star Captains descended to help the tribes and look for followers in the Great Darkness.” That’s mostly it, but it’s repeated in different contexts. Nothing in the Index of The Glorantha Sourcebook. The Prosopaedia references folks being star captains, but doesn’t define them. I checked the Well of Dalaith and there were some very vague references that didn’t amount to much.

Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (interestingly enough, since that is off the canon path) describes them very briefly as “minor Sky deities who descended to help out..” That’s a paraphrase not a quote, but it describes them as minor gods and everything else about them is based upon their actions only. Often times in these various brief references it doesn’t mention where they descended from, but I assume the Sky Dome. I’m not trying to be obtuse just making the point there is very little detail. And I’m not name dropping these books to be cool, but to say “I made the effort to try to find out myself.”

Finally I did a search here. I didn’t go back years and years, but the most recent discussion was a footnote in a conversation about Polestar’s cult presence in Sartar and very little of that pertains to star captains-except Polestar could be one. Just want to head that tangent off at the pass.

Sorry, long post. What can anybody tell me about these mysterious entities?

And I don’t want to tag Jeff, but would star captains be worthy of a few words or paragraphs in a future Solar Cult book? Or a Facebook post that becomes archived?

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

This was in the post only a mere 5 above the one you took my quote from!

Now, before I get in to detail, I do feel I need to stress something here... while this time it's me who is doing all of this whinging and complaining, it *needs* to be noted that I am not, and have not been over the last few years that this topic keeps arising, the only one expressing these thoughts! (I'm not going to go over the last 5 years of threads to find them, but those who are regulars here will know what I'm talking about). So, dismissing my thoughts/opinions/arguments is also doing the same to those other fans (which, as I posted above is the 'disdain' I was talking about.

I note it. And for what it's worth, I didn't cotton on that you were speaking to amount of brand new material vs content that would have to be presented again for a contemporary audience (i.e the new people). That was my oversight.
I can't speak to it however, I lost most of my collection prior to the Guide to Glorantha Kickstarter. So I was always going to need to re-purchase content that has been published before. But, I appreciate that might not be true for you. I don't know what to say. I wish it could be otherwise for you, but I don't see how it's feasible to not publish some older content again.

This is my 37th post on this forum, but it doesn't represent my personal investment in Runequest and Glorantha. I'm 55 years old and will be 56 in a few months. I remember getting Borderlands when I was a freshman in high school, shrink wrapped in a box. I have been pissed off about RQ and heroquesting rules and lack of Dragon Pass material and "god knows what else" for the majority of my life. Maybe 75% of my existence on Earth? I have done my share of whining and fist pumping. I don't write that to impress anybody, or a sense of entitlement, or to get a RQ merit badge. I write it because I empathize. With you.

(I even got mad about the scope of heroquest rules when I misinterpreted what someone said, like a couple months ago?)

I feel time slipping away, like it's going faster. You would think that would make me more desperate for the things I want, but actually it just reminds me that I need to enjoy the things I do have and to try to stay positive for the things I'm waiting on. Maybe I'm a sucker or naive, but this time it feels different-specifically with Chaosium and RuneQuest. I think we're going to see some of this long awaited content shake loose.

I didn't set out to argue with you. I just wanted to encourage you (and in so doing encourage myself) to hang in there. I come to this site for good news and to gin up my own excitement. I'd like to run RQG with heroquesting rules in the next few years, for friends who have never played, and for my wife who played with other people before we met but never with me. So I try to be hopeful. Nevertheless, you're entitled to feel the way you feel.

Best wishes, I hope they can publish what you want soon.
 

58 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

While I am extremely flattered for you saying that, I refer to the Chaosium of today as "Chaosium." Happy to elaborate on that.

Chaosium has existed, as previously stated, with a wide spectrum of owners, managers and staff since 1975. If someone says "Chaosium isn't publishing enough RQ" I view that as a comment on what we are currently doing. If someone says "Chaosium didn't publish enough RQ back in the 80s" I view that as a historical reflection on past performance. While you might find it odd for me to do, I often find myself apologizing for past Chaosium behavior without hesitation, even if it happened decades before I joined the company let alone had any say in its actions. That's my philosophy of what a "company" is. When I talk about Chaosium from any era I find myself more and more just saying "we", as opposed to "they". 

ps: As the head of Nostalgia at Chaosium I sometimes refer to the company as "The Chaosium", but that's a different story...

I appreciate all of this and it’s a fine example of good leadership. 
 

But, respectfully, when I read statements like “we’ve been waiting for 40 years and Chaosium is still screwing up” (paraphrased), I’m not going to accept that at face value. I know better. Or, I at the very least, I know it’s not that simple. I’m happy to flatter you but that’s not flattery, it simply is not your fault. You can apologize for everything and I think that’s very upstanding, but…. <<shrug>>

I think I get it. I have depicted the situation, and by extension I have depicted you in a light that you’re not comfortable with. You don’t want it to be contagious, repeated, and/or you don’t want to be seen as sharing this perspective. It’s not a good look for you to be seen agreeing with the notion that you AND OTHERS saved the company. I sorta expected you or Jeff to push back on this post. Or Scotty to shut it down (hold my beer on getting back on topic). The thing is I got reasons for defending and supporting you and your whole team, and it’s not based on fanboy logic or emotion.

Is this article not true? Because the last line thanks Chaosium for being forthcoming and it quotes (not paraphrases) you prolifically. In mid-2015 this company had 10,000 in the checking account and would have likely gone bankrupt. Did The Nerdist make this up? Did you not say these things? Again, is this not true?

Cthulhu Company Kickstarted Itself To DEATH Then This Happened - The Nerdist 

Even if we don’t dwell on it too much, I think you merit a couple years of grace taking over a struggling company.

I’ll lighten up here. You and your team are entitled to your modesty. Note I am referring to “team” more more often. Agreed, you have never done these good things alone.

But let’s not stop at 2015. To get this back on topic. Before this thread gets locked/killed.

Let’s look at Shiningbrow’s last direct reply to me. I was going to drop this discussion but I’ve been inspired to add to it. Thanks Rick! (Wink)
“No, I can't either. But I can put them on trial for the last 7. And I have and am.”

When do we start this “clock” when Chaosium allegedly didn’t make RQ a priority?

• The company changes leadership in crisis in 2015. At this point there is no in-house rule set for RuneQuest, other than old reprints. There is a Glorantha system, but not RuneQuest.
• In 2017, Eleven Lights is published for Heroquest Glorantha. We don’t even have a contemporary, in-print version of Runequest for a modern contemporary audience. We still have HQ! (I mean published, not in development)
• In 2018, we have a modern in-print Rulebook, to be followed by a Bestiary, and GM Pack
• Since then, we have had a Starter Set, Red Book of Magic, Adventure Books.
• I can’t pin this down, but I imagine Jeff spent some time with Greg to pass the custodianship of Glorantha. Cause I’m guessing Greg could be like Tolkien, with a whole lot of notes and evolving ideas. That’s a big inheritance to absorb before the man sadly passed away.
  
  If we’re judging Chaosium’s productivity on Runequest, can we not start at 2018? It’s early in 2023 and we got four important books coming out. It’s unfair to suggest they’re not doing their best and doing a pretty good job.
  
  To Rick, the aggressive tone in this post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Humility is awesome, but I’m going to think well of you and your confederates if I want to. Sorry.

On 4/15/2023 at 1:16 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I'm not.

I've seen Chaosium do/say  things that are not in the loyal fans' best interests. I would even go so far as to call it disdain. (this is one reason why the HQ rules are still at the 40+ years of waiting - whilst also completely ignoring the Mongoose versions. For some, the long-term fans' real needs were completely ignored for the last X years).

Their focus has been on trying to get new (more) fans (well, their money!), rather than appealing to those of us who have hung on for those decades.

And, for this reason, while RQ will always be my favourite TTRPG, I won't call Chaosium my favourite publisher.

I am not going to chastise you. I think your frustration is understandable. I do want to share a perspective, and it's one I arrived at from reading this thread... so it's new to me, but maybe it will be helpful.

Chaosium has not always been the same company. It's kinda like Arkat. There has been more than one Chaosium, and over the years these "Chaosiums" have had different priorities, licenses, fiscal and administrative leadership as well as creative leadership.

I guess you could call this the Rick Meint's Chaosium. Although there are at last three other major stakeholders, and I don't know the Call of Cthulhu folks very well, so I don't mean to leave anybody out.

• Not to be confused with the Pre-2015 Chaosium (I kid when I write the Gbjai Chaosium).
• Not to be confused with the Chaosium that licensed Runequest to Avalon Hill (I joke when I say the Nysalor Chaosium).
• Not to be confused with the Runequest that saw Greg fall in love with Pendragon.
• Not to be confused with the 2nd Edition Runequest that was beloved AND planned on releasing HQ rules.

I could drag Issaries Inc and Hero Wars, Heroquest, Heroquest Glorantha, Mongoose into the metaphor but I think you get my point.

We've been disappointed for decades, and the last few years probably don't feel like they have come fast enough. But when we shake our fist at Chaosium today, it's not the same company that caused us to be disappointed. Yet these guys bought all of the baggage when they rescued this company. They haven't shirked it or held us in contempt, it's just getting to where we are now is not the function of an instant. It's been the function of about seven years. Seven years coming back from the edge of no tomorrow.

This year I really believe we're getting at least 4 new meaty books and who knows? Maybe some more. But I believe at least four. They've committed to at least four, and committed very publicly. This will be a good year and next year will be better yet. Starting in July.

I can't put them on trial for 33 years of other people's decisions. July is coming buddy.  🙂

(All this post is my understanding and perception. I don't mean to speak for Chaosium and what I wrote was in good faith and inclined towards being positive)

I’m not a total slave of canon, but I’m looking forward to:

• An in-print
• Playable
• Readable (for fun)
• Comprehensive
• Canonical
• And foundational resource.

It may not be precisely the canon of decades ago, in small details, but I don’t care. It won’t be an argument on a Yahoo list or forum. It will be a canon that will remain consistent for the rest of my life. It won’t be piecemeal with decades between publications. Yeah it took awhile to get here, but July is a hop and a skip away. I’m also looking forward to getting it out of the way. Which is not to say that I don’t think it’s the highest priority to start publishing, it is, but there are other things I’d like to see written and published-that can happen once the logjam is smashed.

I love Dragon Pass but I’m interested and curious abut Fronela. I always found the legends of Snodal, the Syndic’s Ban etc. to be fascinating. That material can’t be explored until foundational works are done. Until Dragon Pass is finally detailed. I could say the same for Esrolia an equally neat place in the setting. 

So much to look forward to! So much reason to be hopeful!

My curiosity was sated. The gist of what I wondered about has been answered. Thanks to all, including Jeff. I know where some some of the big names will be and there is room for some 'wait and see.' 

5 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

 

1) Because there are a lot of them, and

2) they are important to the overall Glorantha myths, and

3) they provide lots of evil foes for devious GM's to work with. 

Ah, I was not clear. I wasn’t actually questioning why Chaos would get a book, I agree with you for the reasons above.

What I meant was, ‘maybe Mostal doesn’t get in a book because mostali are not treated as a playable race’ (and as an aside the same can be said of dragonewts, if we want to also consider dragons). But I countered that argument by adding that couldn’t be the case because Chaos deities must assuredly get a book, and they’re not typically considered playable either.

sorry, I guess I was arguing with myself.

So I have been trying to deduce all 10 books, since we have some answers in place. I’ll start with the known quantities, but after those I am not suggesting a specific order. They’re just guesses.

1. The Prospaedia

2. The Lightbringers

3. The Earth Goddesses

4. Mythology

5. The Lunar Way

6. The Water Gods

7. Darkness Gods

8. Solar Gods

9. Chaos Gods

10. ??

A book of Spirits? I would assume Aldrya would be under earth goddesses. Where would the World Machine go? The Cosmic Dragon? Or do they get set aside since a playable cult is not viable (but if that is the case, why would Chaos gods get a book?)

10 hours ago, Richard S. said:

 

There's at least five different topics where this has all been discussed to death, but the decision has been made and whether it was right or not isn't something we should start arguing about again, at least here.

Yelmalio will be in the solar pantheon book unless there's been some massive shakeup, and Elmal will be right in there with himself.

Written in agreement:

The Yelmalio / Elmal topic is something I have chosen not to engage over the years. I've just skipped the threads for the most part. It's going to be great (for me at least) to open these books and read about these entities from a clear, definitive perspective. Just the straight dope, as the expression goes.

I'm not kidding. A clean fresh start is thrilling for me.

On 2/28/2023 at 8:30 AM, jajagappa said:

I like the presentation of these as Player's Guides.  These aren't exclusive to the GM, and potentially the GM does not even need to pick up if the player has the one (or two) relevant to their characters.

That's a good observation. I had not thought of it that way.

I'm delighted. Runequest and Glorantha has been part of my life for decades. My impatience burned out a long time ago. I'm happy to see a stream of content start to flow.

I celebrate this news.

EDIT: Just sayin', there are folks that are glad to see this day come.

Oh yes. Weird that error. Thank you for the reply.

23 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

I have seen that error, too, but try the same link again — the picture is there. You have probably seen it before, anyway.

The link in the original post comes back with a “403 Forbidden” error message. Was the image removed because of this post?

Will prints of this art be available to purchase?

Pardons if some pieces already are.

44 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

There are many paths to explore. There are many RuneQuest groups. There are many possible answers. Your Glorantha Will Vary. When someone says your method won’t work: prove them wrong.

To add to this comment, one of the things I always admired about Glorantha as a setting is that it has it's share of things which are impossible. Except there are instances where someone has done the flat-out impossible. The follow-up to those exceptions or examples is "Well, yeah, but there were consequences."

@g33k Thank you for drawing my attention to the closed thread.