davecake

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I already forgot where but I noted a source earlier in this thread. Its a cool quest and the PC's will gather the materials at some time... no dwarf in the party but maybe a pavis descendant will count as they were part dwarvish?

In the Bestiary, it’s just a big damn ritual, that requires among other things a big iron vat, and a Tin Diamond dwarf, so large Mostali cities are probably capable of creating Jolanti pretty regularly, but it’s pretty difficult for smaller Mostali groups to create any. I interpret it as making the Jolanti into living stone again, and as a result can’t rely on conventional stone masonry (the limbs must move because are living, not mechanically, and be a single piece of stone). Without a Tin Mostali or reasonable facsimile (Tin Diamond) they cannot bring it to life, and a statue enchanted with a spirit in it is quite different. Of course, there is a lot more potential for other enhancements. 
And I think the reason the Mostali don’t seem to around creating truly giant Jolanti, Faceless Stone Statue size, is that probably does require a Tin True Mostaki, plus a truly enormous vat. Maybe they had to be made of Living Stone at the time - eg before elves killed Stone in the Lesser Darkness. 
Note in Paris the Flintnail dwarves probably do a lot of working around these requirements by using parts of the Faceless Stone Statue instead of I burning the stone with life themselves. 

I also differ from most of this thread (though it’s funny) in that I don’t think dwarves are part mechanical, or fabricated mechanically. They try to transform themselves to have some of the characteristics of living metal alchemically (as well as become more suited to caste tasks). Cut them open, they are flesh, just tough and weirdly mineral. They are not stamped out of molds - but the process may include a fair bit of being marinated in vats. And yes, the application of heat is an alchemical process too. 
Diamond dwarfs are not cyborgs (at least, not the mechano-surgical kind), they are the result of incredibly difficult, expensive and unpleasant processes to try to transform themselves to be made of living metal like True Mostali (in the hopes that eventually the Mostali of old can be recreated). They probably do start as living clay, in their understanding (though with organs and stuff). 
Of course, the World Machine is a machine, but not a simple mechanical one (that is a basic symbolism/metaphor to make it comprehensible to mortal minds), but a magical and alchemical one. 
 

IMO a Flintnail cultist can count as part dwarf for these purposes - it’s what you know rather than mere ancestry, the Tin and Quicksilver dwarves have a lot of experience in adjusting properties of mortal bodies as needed. But they may need to transform themselves, temporarily or permanently, by some alchemical processes for some things. Of course those processes are somewhat untested on humans, and volunteers to continue the research are rare. 
Back in the time of Pavis, though, a glorious time for vital research into necessary metaphysical repair processes! Pavis and Flintnail worked together for groundbreaking research into the nature of the Man rune and mortality, and the magical manipulation of the Man rune. 
(FWIW, I think it’s obvious I thought the version of Flintnail and Pavis in Pavis: GTA for heroquest was extremely cool, and I’m a bit concerned the ‘back to RQ2’ tendencies of some current writing will revert it rather than run with it). 
 

On 1/26/2024 at 12:01 PM, AndrewTBP said:

I always appreciate the pseudo-Latinate names because I can look that up and get a good idea what the creature is in the absence of good artwork. 

Yes. Sandy and Greg both seem to like prehistoric creatures, and it an help a lot knowing what animals look like.

Plenty of people in our world want to be predatory bullies and get stuff for free, and they don’t even get magic for it. Gagarth is a god who approves of your mean bullying ways, and gives you magic for it too. 

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

One of the lowfires  — Gustbran or Mahome, but not Oakfed — could be the patron of those who work kiln-dried wood.

In Heortling Mythology there are a bunch of minor Lowfires named, though that wasn’t one of them. Pananala was one, god of the pottery fire (pit firing pottery precedes kilns by millennia). 

If it’s a true kiln, Gustbran maybe. 

6 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

We don’t need to create a load of new gods — look at the versatility of Apollo.

We can also consider that we can effectively consider some new gods to be effectively just new names for old gods.

On 1/27/2024 at 7:14 AM, Bohemond said:

I thought about Oakfed or Daga, because this is happening in Fire Season when they would be strong. But do either of those have enough actual followers to produce a good fight scenario.

I once did a huge campaign arc in which the Lunars (with their Yelm priests and other magicians like the Red School of Masks had contrived to summon Daga to weaken all the Praxian tribes without access to sources of water (like the Zola Fel), and the PCs had to do a huge re-enact of Orlanths defeat of Aroka, travelling in a huge spiral around Pavis collecting various winds from various foes along the way.

it climaxed with fighting the Sea dragon at the centre of the Puzzle Canal, and once it was defeated by the parties Wind Lord leader (using all the collected winds in the battle), while the rest of the party battled the Coders who had been sent to stop them, they freed the Thunder Bird and brought rain to Prax.

That might be a little more than you were looking for, but maybe it will give you idea. maybe Windwhistler can be your stand in for both sun and dragon. 

Oakfed is a spirit that can be summoned by Praxian shamans, maybe a bunch of them from the fire spirits spirit society? Let them summon a bunch of fire elementals, boost them with Oakfeds Create Wildfire spell? Throw around a bunch of ignite spells, try to burn up a bunch of plant offerings because Oakfed is hungry and thinks he deserves them all? A few Praxian warriors just for variety maybe? The Impala are the most fond of Fire among the major tribes (little guys who are expert missile combatants, with Fire Arrow?), but the spirit societies are cross-tribal so whoever you like really. 

On 1/23/2024 at 3:58 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I m not sure that carpenters will follow the god of carpenters if it is known that this god is unable to work wood (so unable to bless wood workers).

While I’m not 100% sure whether Orstan the Orlanthi Carpenter god is fully officially consigned to the the Hero Wars publication era memory hole, he could indeed work wood etc.

But it’s really besides the point - I could easily imagine a patron deity of wood workers being instead a tree deity who ensures they can get the fine wood,they need, and without being targeted by Aldryami. Or the god who made the first axes and whittling knives, and still knows the secrets of making the best. 
 

Though the god who manifests the skill in question will be the default - I’m reminded of the Kralorelans, who have the 700 ancestors who each mastered one of the arts of civilization. Certainly not the only pattern. Look at some of the very odd reasons for assigning Catholic patron saints to various professions. 

On 1/23/2024 at 3:58 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I m not sure that carpenters will follow the god of carpenters if it is known that this god is unable to work wood (so unable to bless wood workers).

While I think Gustbran is assumed to be a craftsman himself now, that is really not why he is the god of smiths and potters. He is the god of the forge and the kiln. Lokarnos is the god of the wheel, and may once have been a god of chariots - but now he is mostly worshipped by people who haul goods for money, whether or not his mysteries pay much attention to his mercantile associations. 
 

But also professional dominated cults naturally evolve to become guilds and professional associations. It doesn’t matter if Gustbran is a smith himself, his cult is full of smiths who share their knowledge with other members. If every smith in town is a member, and shares divine worship, trying to keep control over their profession and keeping outsiders out of the business becomes pretty natural, and lets the priests of the cult get pretty tight control. 

We know how Jolanti are made. And certain lesser imitation Jolanti too. 
 

But what about nilmergs? They appear biological, and quite similar to dwarves? Where do they come from? Are they, perhaps, what happens when an dwarven infant (whatever the process that got them to that point) is found to be not suitable for further processing? 
 

And what hellish process creates a gunpowder gobbler? 

On 1/23/2024 at 12:35 AM, Erol of Backford said:

When dwarves are made is it like an assembly line with parts, are they actually bionic, totally and do they use repair spells?

*Local Mostali begin screaming and freaking as their deeply suppressed memories of how dwarves are made surface*

On 1/23/2024 at 12:37 AM, Erol of Backford said:

So how old would a dwarf be when they are recycled, say in median number of years?

It’s not about the actual number of years, it’s when their apparent ages rises due the subtle aging that comes from heresy and falling from the way of Mostal. The Quality Controllers examine dwarves, and those that look a little bit too old may be assumed to be suspect, and marked for recycling? Rumors that some dwarves may resort to cosmetics, clothing that makes look younger, exercise classes, etc to keep looking youthful are surely just non-dwarves misunderstanding. 
Exposed to non-Mostali culture are at particular risk - perhaps some might have found them good markets for potions that are guaranteed to keep you looking youthful? 

On 1/16/2024 at 4:43 AM, Ali the Helering said:

But.... the mushy peas?  What of the mushy peas?

Now peas definitely do exist in Vralos, they even have a ‘grain’ goddess, but if they are common in Genertela that sounds suspiciously God Learnerish.

so the best fish and chips might be in coastal Vralos. Or even Fonrit.

but I bet you can get them in Nochet. 

12 hours ago, Richard S. said:

The Bestiary says that Pelorian lions have a black mane while Seshnelan ones have golden manes. I think the lion shahs probably had a closer relationship to golden-maned Pendal than black-maned Durbaddath,

I thought the Pelorian Lions had black manes, and the Seshnelan (and Praxian, originally Pamaltelan) lions had golden manes though the  Prosopedia implies Durbaddath has a golden mane.
I would instead go for the more obvious connection that Carmania overlaps Peloria. The Lion Shahs and the Bull Shahs both are long after the original migration of the Westerners to Pelanda, and there is little reason to have brought lions with them given the Pendali lion people are traditional enemies of the Malkioni. Both the lion shahs and Bull shahs are drawing on parts of the story and imagery of Carmanos, who invoked the aid of the ancient Pelandan bull god Bisos to defeat the Spolites, and who hunted the Lion of Brass (a local lion, so Pelorian, and possibly some sort of incarnation or servant of Durbaddath) as a youth and wore its skin afterwards. I think the lion shahs were so called because they would try to imitate Carmanos by hunting a lion (as noble hunting parties still try to do in the Brass Mountains - guide pg 325) and would wear its skin if successful, and/or because the Durbaddath worshipping Lasadag Lions were their bodyguards. 

Just to confuse things, Safelster now seems to have two species of lions. 

Just last night, I ran the sequence from the Coming Storm in which the players meet Argrath, and he conducts a great magic ritual. The overwhelming impression of my group was the was dangerous madman, though a smart and charismatic one. His big speeches in that are all marvellously demented, declaring he is Arkat returned, and telling to become the dragon and then cut off their own head and such things. He is also written with a lot of breathtaking arrogance, which my players picked up on - making a huge show of granting the group hospitality, while he is trespassing on their own clan lands, for example.  I decided the ceremony obviously included a great deal of intoxicants, especially big Praxian hazia spliffs. 

On 1/15/2024 at 9:54 PM, Byll said:

Threre is also Durbaddath  the Lion god of Pelanda and Peloria. Presumably the Lunar Lasadag Lions regiment has some link to him

He is the patron god of that regiment, and their special magic c9mes from him. 
I vaguely recall that he is a different type of lion, and I think has a black mane?

Also was the patron god of the lion shahs of Carmania I think?

An obscure fact about Kazkurtum - the artwork used for the image of Kazkurtum in The Fortunate Succession is based on Australian Indigenous rock art. It is both ancient, and part of a living culture, and I’ve seen the original. The original is not a malign entity. An important positive spirit and important ancestor called Namarrkon the lightning man. But to the Dara Happans, he would represent some terrifying things - he is also the spirit of a sort of grasshopper, with some features that are a bright electric blue (and comes out at the right time of year for summer storms). 
So that image has a grasshoppers head (an insect associated with Darkness), and is holding his long (electric blue) antennae that are also the lightning (Storm).

Not shown in this image, but often in other images of Namarrkon, are the big flint axe stones he ties to his elbows, and clashes together to make the thunder. Also, his extremely impressive outsize genitals. Two more things to alarm Dara Happans. 

Did Greg know all this? Probably yes, you probably wouldn’t be familiar with image unless you visited the site, which I think he did after the trip to the first Melbourne RuneQuest Con. I think the choice of image was deliberate.

On 1/15/2024 at 5:39 PM, Joerg said:

How much influence could her cult or the political machinations of her descendents have exerted on the Seven Mothers cult?

I think exerting undue influence on the Seven Mothers cult, and other Lunar religions, is one of the most popular hobbies among the Lunar upper classes. 

On 12/11/2023 at 3:37 PM, davecake said:

the knowledge that it is potentially a hugely transformative crop is one of the many secrets of Annilla that she refuses to share with the lovers of the Sun

To expand on these earlier observations:

• the followers of the Blue Moon know the secret of potatoes. To anyone who tries to discover the secret that they wish to discourage, they helpfully suggest it’s important to eat the leaves. 
• Once, apparently the empire distributed potato read through the Seven Mothers temples. Now, they distribute corn bread. Clearly, a policy changed, and in the time of Hon-Eel or after. 

  On 12/7/2023 at 8:10 PM, Nick Brooke said:

  I’m not sure you grok what a grain goddess does. They don’t diversify, or rotate crops. They are their grain.

  As Hon-Eel is the grain goddess of Maize, this change literally makes Hon-Eel greater. So we have a motive. The red goddess incarnate displaces the mysterious schemes of her blue former self. One of such complexities are the schemes of the highest Lunar theological conspiracies made. Or perhaps the blue moon has voluntarily withdrawn one of her gifts from Peloria now that it is no longer needed, and her sister has cooperated to allow it to happen.

• On 12/7/2023 at 10:22 PM, Darius West said:

  On the other hand, is there any way in which Glorantha is harmed by the inclusion of potatoes?  I can't think of one.  If they come from some far away place, then they were clearly introduced by the God Learners. 

  If they are indeed the sacred plant of the Blue Moon, the God Learners might have discovered them in Pamaltela, from the Veldang. I can imagine the God Learners displaying this wondrous discovery to a jaded Emperor of Earth and Sea to justify the God Learners Pamaltelan adventures. To imperial indifference - after all, has not the empire shown that grain goddesses can be interchanged as needed, thus rendering food supply from agriculture a solved problem? 

• On 1/13/2024 at 11:32 PM, Jeff said:

  And there are no references to potatoes in any of the Chaosium books in the last decade. So make of it what you will.

  A conspiracy so high level and secretive in its manipulations, it’s even got to Jeff. 

On 1/11/2024 at 8:15 PM, Ynneadwraith said:

They miss the core tenet at the core of traditional 'dwarfishness': that they should be a diaspora.

A good observation

On 1/11/2024 at 8:15 PM, Ynneadwraith said:

Now this doesn't fit particularly well with Glorantha's left-field iteration of dwarves,

A diaspora is a spread beyond the homeland. Traditional Mostali are in their homelands - Nida, Greatway, Slon. But most of the Mostali you are likely to properly interact with - at Dwarf Run, the Flintnail dwarves of Pavis, etc - are at least heretics, often apostate, and far from a true dwarven homeland. You could consider they are the diaspora. 

Remember Mostali manufacturing and production of things isn’t like mundane purely physical manufacturing, or like science s we understand it, it is very magical, and particularly alchemical. They want things that are rich sources of some particular set of Runic and alchemical properties, or raw ingredients to create it. Particular relics of magical creatures, or things associated with a rune strongly. And remember that Mostali have made all sorts of adaptions over the centuries, learning new alchemy (black powder, antidotes to poisons, and also poisons, new servant races, magical potions ), alliances with others ( that are highly ritualized usually, and often require special objects as part of that ritual). They want alchemical ingredients like particular poisons, body parts of magical things, objects they believe they need for various ritual purposes, such as to demonstrate their power over particular subject peoples, or conquered spirits (or imagined power, maybe centuries out of date), weird things required for some necessary World Machine repair (such controlling a powerful unruly spirit, such as of some magical disaster, or restoring such a spirit to health if it is believed to be broken or injured), or to make some tool necessary for World Machine repair (a net for catching Passion Spirits, for example). Because damage to the world machine is not necessarily Mostali in origin, what is required to fix it may not be either - maybe they need some moon rock, or Tanian water ash, or similar exotic material. Or fragments of dead gods. 
Stories of dwarves creations in Norse mythology are good inspiration -  the magical chain that bound Ferris wolf, for example, was made by dwarves, and made from mountain roots, the beards of women, the sound of cats’ paws, the breath of fishes, birds’ saliva, and the sinews of bears. 

On 4/22/2023 at 7:25 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Since we are so programed to think of dwarves as real world Irish or Scottish it might be more interesting to have then more exotic, like Mongolian, etc. at least for me... maybe Polynesian?

Mostali are Mostali in culture culture, which is weird and not very human at all. But those Gold Mostali assigned to deal with outsiders such as humans (and other races seldom meet any others) do adopt some customs, including speech and clothing, that mimic local cultures. Of course, this is just done as a superficial utilitarian thing to make their work easier - in reality they are Mostali to the core. This may cross over to some extent to any Mostali expected to deal with non-Mostali at all - eg Iron Mostali might make armor styles superficially similar to local human heavy infantry, as this is believed to be more intimidating and clearly indicate their threatening nature, and might learn some phrases that they believe to be useful such as intimidating battle cries and demands to surrender, often rote learned from (maybe centuries out of date) observation of local human armies. So Mostali encountered in the East Isles might seem Polynesian, in Teshnos Mongolian, elsewhere Irish or Scottish, or like dwarves from Viking stories (with the understanding that accents and turns of phrase are just metaphorical attempts to convey Gloranthan equivalents). The dwarves of Jords Eye that trade with the King of Imther will wear court dress from the time when the trade agreement was made. 

Of course, heretic Mostali can depart from this, with many castes possibly interacting with humans enough to imitate them among other castes (and without the orthodox Gold caste training/obsession with preserving Mostali cultural purity), and apostate dwarves, like the followers of Flintnail, having, by definition, already failed at maintaining pure Mostali culture.
The dwarves of Paris actually have begun to adopt many aspects of the local human culture - though in many cases by that they mean the Paris cults cultural practices that are, themselves, centuries outdated relics of the practices of the EWF. Think of Freemasonic rituals, with lots of symbolic robes and weirdness that is no longer understood, at least for formal occasions. But also having learned to use appropriate local materials as needed (eg Fintnail dwarves will make many working garments and light armor out of Praxian herd beast leather, while Orthodox Mostali would not).
And similarly for other dwarves that depart from the orthodox Mostali way - even when they really do adopt some human practices, it’s still often centuries out of date, they worked out what it should be once, and often pay little attention from then on unless there is a very good reason to change. 
 

On 4/23/2023 at 12:15 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Do dwarves do drag?

Unintentionally, frequently, as they barely understand the human concept of gender, and actually try to blank from their mind any real understanding of its sexual basis. 
Mostali lingerie would be hilarious - they would be trying to imitate what they think human lingerie is, and is for, as most Mostali fear and loathe and deny the very concept of sex and sexual attraction, including sexual dimorphism (they claim not to even notice it). Think bearded male Gold dwarves wearing lingerie to private one on one meetings, as this is observed human behaviour. And ignoring any sexual implications - until they absolutely cannot, at which point they react as if suffering Call of Cthulhu style SAN loss, such as catatonia

IMO the process of becoming a Diamond Dwarf is a magical process of trying to magically become a substitute True Mostali, at least in body. True Mostali have inorganic, made not born, bodies - though their bodies are also from the time before such inorganic material was made dead with the Death of Stone (metals are essentially sub-types of stone), so their bodies are not dead and inert, but can change their bodies freely into useful forms such as tools. Diamond Dwarves, though very deeply secret and sacred magical processes, transform to transform themselves into a limited copy of a True Mostali. They do change in other ways, such as losing the ability to ability to sexually reproduce, which in any case disgusts them deeply, and having no need to eat (but acquiring energy in other ways as needed). And a True Mostali is similar physically to a Diamond Dwarf, though also of Demi-godlike magical nature, such they are capable of performing magic that took Diamond Dwarves centuries to learn to perform flawlessly. 

(This not a surgical change! That’s a perversion from those vile God Learner weirdos! It’s a magical/alchemical change of their whole being! It involves many alchemical stages of purification, and other alchemical transformations, that require flawless performance of many complex and dangerous rituals. Solve et Coagula!)

On 4/22/2023 at 10:20 PM, soltakss said:

Clay Mostali (Dwarves) are definitely organic, being made with a healthy dollop of the Man Rune.

Only the True Mostali are inorganic.

On 12/20/2023 at 6:18 PM, Nick Brooke said:

The impala-riding scout was hired because he can Track,

*sound of hollow laughter from my players*

The militia member who is described as being hired as a scout, and seems to actually be pictured tracking (at least, I hope that is what he doing smelling dung) (Kicking Horses) is given no tracking ability at all. 
No, you have to be the other Impala rider, who is hired specifically as a tracker,  to have tracking ability, which is apparently a completely unrelated activity to scouting.

On 12/20/2023 at 6:18 PM, Nick Brooke said:

the Lhankor Mhy forensic tech is there because of his Human Lore,

Who is described as a Sage, the title for a Rune Priest of Lhankor Mhy, which he does not qualify for, his title should be Apprentice. (And who does not have Human Lore)
Just two of many inconsistencies in the militia stats, with lots of them missing skills you’d expect them to have (such as cultural or sometimes professional standards), or incorrect skill bonuses. For example, Kicking Horses also can’t speak Praxian. 

if there is ever an update, a proof read of the militia stats would be good. I’m sure my players would contribute. 

43 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Winter Ruins?  Is there any "official documentation" about it ?  I think I heard vampires hang out there from somewhere?

The Winter Ruins were a prison for the forces of winter during the Gods War (apparently Genert imprisoned them to please ‘the Sun Gods daughter’), until the Dark Eater destroyed it, freeing the forces of Winter. Some say Thunder Bird was involved in freeing them. Most of the winter gods are jerks, who then aided their kinsman Ragnaglar in his fight with Storm Bull.

Note the White Princess, Inora, is the only friendly spirit of Winter, and generally much loved - by bringing snow and cooling things down, she makes the dry plains much more liveable. While she left the Winyer Ruins long ago, perhaps one of the minor snow goddesses that serve her is stuck there for some reason, or she has been made to return there somehow. I must admit, Inora just makes me want to have a beautiful snow and ice wielding princess singing about how she should “let it snow, let it snowwww…”

Now there are scattered blocks of translucent whit stone that remain ice cold, and probably some angry darkness/cold spirits, though even for the heart of winter Prax seems a bit warm for hollri. Frost spirits (variant darkness elementals, Bestiary pg 180) seem likely though.

The Winter Ruins themselves are not part of the Magic draining Dead Place, just surrounded by it. Allegedly the ruins kept Storm Bulls shoulder from touching the ground there, so it was not drained. 

I’ve never heard of any vampires, but the Winter Ruins are supposed to be largely deserted so anyone could set up shop there, I guess. 

And in my Glorantha they have a festival there, in summer, they travel through the inhospitable Dead Place and then stay there for a week dancing and singing in praise of Inora, and build a giant wooden effigy and then burn it and dance around it to commemorate when Oakfed defeated winter by burning all the redwoods. Of course, this is mostly shamanic types, so there is lots of weirdness and drugs. 

5 hours ago, davecake said:

Though I’ve been making it more alkali flats than salt flats, this is mostly because I am familiar with that landscape, and because I have a running joke

No, turns out Pavis: GTA says alkali. Must have got the joke from that, not the other way round. 

On 12/19/2023 at 2:23 AM, Joerg said:

Fossilized water, aka salt, some of that toxic ash from Oakfed's wildfire that eradicated even the Redwoods of the original Praxian savannah, carried in by seasonal "serpents" and then evaporating.

That does make sense. Though I’ve been making it more alkali flats than salt flats, this is mostly because I am familiar with that landscape, and because I have a running joke about the annual festival at the Winter Ruins featuring a big burning wooden man. 

Let me heartily recommend the Lifethief by Beer With Teeth on the Jonstown Compendium. No link to them, just a satisfied customer. This has lots of information about the unpleasantness of the Dead Place, and a scenario against a very nasty danger, too. 

in fact, the only thing I wish they had added to it is information about the Father of Independents. My players got a serious butt kicking from the Lifethief, and now only want to take it on with allies - but no allies want to enter the Dead Place, so they might end up trying to convince their friendly shamans (who definitely aren’t currently going into the Dead Place) to create a spirit cult of the Father of Independents. It seems one fairly natural way to resolve the scenario. 

On 12/17/2023 at 9:38 AM, Ian_W said:

If I was a God Learner building a god to help steal mythic power off barbarians, I'd build something that looks a lot like the Third Age Llankor Mhy

There is, of course, a wide suspicion that this is, to a significant extent, exactly what happened. Suitably vague divine ancestry lets the borders between Lhankor Mhy and Tadenit be mythically blurred, sorcery is ‘cleansed’ of its enemy associations through exploring appropriate myths and dedicated heroquesting, LM has cult strictures set such that one can remain a Sage and also easily follow Zzaburi caste rules, and so on. And a Zzaburi can now just claim to be a funny foreign Sage.

Issaries also we already know to be connected to the Seshnegi nobility. And has that cool Spell Trading thing, Path Watch is an awesome HeroQuest spell too, and the cult is known to carefully collect maps of the underworld. They don’t even seem to be forbidden to use sorcery. Handy.

And then there was a little bit of snap back in the wake of the God Learners fall. Now some Lhankor Mhy prefer to work their sorcery exclusively in Theyalan script (via the Alien Combination Machine, which is SO obviously a God Learner artifact) to shield themselves from associations, both historical and magical, with the perfidious God Learning meldeks that everyone and everything seems to want to kill. Which does rather restrict their sorcery access for the most part. But you keep those forbidden books tucked away in the library just in case. A 17th century Lhankor Mhy who wishes to go delving into God Learner magical secrets probably just needs to learn Western and get access to the secret library catalog (providing it’s the right library - Nochet, for example, which was altogether suspiciously close to the Clanking City/God Forgot). 
 

Claiming LM is the (child? Brother?) of Mostal probably comes in handy for stealing their magical secrets too.