Tywyll

For what it's worth, there is a longish section called "Powered Characters versus Non-Powered Characters" in BRP that addresses this issue.

Some of the options presented are:

• Allowing the non-powered characters more skill points to construct their characters with. This head-start should prove decisive throughout a campaign.
  
• Allowing non-powered characters to invest in non-flashy powers like Defense, etc. that are technically powers but could be characterized in gameplay as "catlike reflexes, exceptional luck, etc."
  
• Allowing non-powered characters to invest "character points" into stuff like exceptional gear, etc. to help them compete.
  

Elsewhere in the book, I discuss the nature of balance and how it's the GM's job to make sure that a campaign is balanced. For example, if you're running a criminal investigation scenario and one of the PCs is a police detective, he/she has a distinct advantage over the player who picked "student" or "priest" as their profession. There are some guidelines as to how to achieve this, but it's very general as that sort of stuff is intrinsically setting-specific.

Still elsewhere in the book are the Fate Point rules, allowing players to spend power points to affect dice results. This isn't a magic bullet to end the perceived problem, but given a finite number of power points, having non-powered characters using them to augment skill/combat rolls and having powered characters using them for powers seems to balance things considerably. (Incidentally, this very problem is why I introduced the Fate Point system - giving non-powered characters something to do in gameplay with power points.)

Hope this helps.

Oh, I'm really glad to hear all of these options!

Could you tell me how characters earn Powers using these rules? Are there guidelines? I know back in Superworld there were ways to earn new Power Points (or whatever they were called) but it was quite difficult and certainly wouldn't have translated to a fantasy campaign.

Ack, I wish that book would hurry up and come out. Any idea when it will be released in the UK?

Do not forget Hero Points. They are a worthy addition that MRQ applied to D100, stealing the idea from HeroQuest or Mythic Russia. You may not like Legendary Abilities, which are covered by Powers in BRP, but Hero Point usage in combat makes a game better.

Actually, I love Hero Points. I simply didn't mention them because I thought that was a hot button issue for many fans of BRP, so I was trying to not start a fight.

I also like Heroic Abilities. You say that they are covered in Powers by BRP, but I thought the BRP Powers section just contained things like magic and psionics and mutations. Does it have special abilities that represent Feats of tremendous skill or some such? Because that would be awesome if they did!

How would you use HP in BRP to reduce damage since there are no hit locations?

No, that's not it. The problem is that plain "fighter type" characters have much more limited options (in combat, principally) than magic-using ones.

OK, they could learn dancing and/or etiquette, but that doesn't give their players more interesting things to do when a melee breaks out...

Settings like Glorantha solve this by allowing everyone to do magic. But that's not suitable for every setting, and not to everyone's taste.

Exactly what I was getting at. :thumb:

I'm not sure I've understood your quandary. Is your problem 'how can I prevent my players from all choosing a spell casting character?'?

Mostly. Its also, "If players have a concept, such as street-wise rogue, or grizzled combat veteran, what happens down the line when the mages are schtumping the opposition and the only real advantage those concepts maintain is simply a few more points in a few skills, which the casters can be developing as well?"

Well.... What can I say? This is a hard one. And there are many ways to tackle the problem, depending on personal taste/campaig background/rules fiddling.

1/ You could go the D&D way. Magic-users are not allowed to learn swordfighting. Period. Obviously a party will need fighters as well as magic-users.

Never liked this option.

2/ You could say that only characters from a certain caste/from a very wealthy family are allowed/can afford to learn magic.

this works, to a degree, but essentially leaves the problem of the non-caster eventually being in danger of being bored by lack of things to do (besides say "I attack") while the casters are dripping with tons of options. It also doesn't help with the balance issue... a wizard can learn sword-fighting later on, but the non-casters really can't.

3/ You could say that magical studies are so long that all starting spell-casting characters are 50 years old. This may have some disadvantages in terms of physical skills.

Doesn't work for my setting.

4/ Any characters could be allowed to have magic and fighting skills. The line between 'fighters' and 'magic-users' would be completely blurred (like in all RQ2 games I've played).

Also doesn't work. Its also not really an option for most 'traditional' fantasy/Sword&Sorcery settings. This isn't a knock on RQ, but for most people coming to BRP, this style won't be familiar or necessarily favored.

But in the end buying magic skills is expensive, and a lot of players want to be able to have more than just one group of skills over 50%. I am running a MRQ GodLearner campaign and although all PCs had access to magic, not all players decided to invest heavily in magic skills.

Its expensive in MRQ, wherein level ups are limited by 'improvement rolls'. However, in more traditional BRP, improvement is solely based on use, so that doesn't necessarily hinder the player. If the skills are there, they can take them as they wish.

I guess my issue is two fold. The player of casters have lots of different options and things they can do in combat, in addition to having the same set of options that non-casters have (weapon and skill use). They aren't prevented from being as good or even better than the character that begins the game as the dedicated 'heavy' simply because improvement is random and use based. After awhile, I'm concerned that the players who failed to pick magic as a concept will end up with little to do compared to their mystic companions.

Now, MRQ handles this issue with a limited amount of improvement, which is one means of balancing the issue. the other would be providing some sort of special or focused abilities that are either incompatible with magic, or simply require a lot of extra focus from a character (preventing most cases of 'double dipping').

Or, I'm sure there are other options I've not considered.

One of my concerns with certain BRP settings is that there is little 'flash' for the non-casters. Elric! certainly feels this way, as did the old Stormbringer (I never got the latest version of Stormbringer).

Since skills are improved via use, there is no reason a person who casts spells can't also be good in melee combat. What, if any, thing does the new BRP do to address this? I'm not saying that casters shouldn't be able to learn to wield swords, but from a 'fun' standpoint, what do the non-casters get to help them remain relevant in a party of casters?

I realize I'm probably treading on dangerous grounds here, considering the general dislike for MRQ, but I was wondering about the possibility of including some of its mechanics (tweaked) into BRP when I get it.

I'm not looking for comments about how much MRQ sucks or whatever. I already realize its not as good as BRP, but it is widely supported and some of the newer rules appeal to me.

One of the big things I'm thinking of using with BRP once I get it is using both the Allegiance system, as well as the Pow sacrifice system in the MRQ version of Elric. I really like the idea of dedicating pow to one's god and being rewarded for bits of your soul, but I also like the idea of one's actions reflecting one's leanings. It suits my campaign world very well. I'm just wondering about the balance aspect (especially the ability that gives you a flat 100% in a Cult Skill).

I'm also interested in some of the magic systems from MRQ, mostly the sorcery with the Glorantha 2nd Age material added in, wherein magic becomes more 'blasty'. It would need to be altered to fit a system that doesn't use Hit Locations, of course, but otherwise, could they work together?

I suppose it has a lot to do with how the two base magic systems work and whether they fulfill my campaign's magic needs I suppose. Since I don't really have a clear idea of how the two systems work, I don't yet if they'll do it for me.

Has anyone else considered this?

3d6 is nonlinear (it is a bell curve). It is perfect for determining chances of success, as it naturally models casuality and statistics. It is less perfect when you have to design your own critters from scratch.

After designing hit location tables for weird monsters for years for RQ3, I can definitely state that 3d6 is a no-no unless you know that nothink non-humanoid is coming into play, and d100 is definitely more realistic, but a tidbit complicate. D20 is simple enough to design new creatures in a few minutes, and flexible enough to provide for a minimum of realism.

Eh... I found the tables in the Hero Bestiary seem to cover most weird monsters (winged creatures/humanoids, insects, wyrms, dragons, etc). I still find the advantages (high and low shots, rarity of head shots versus body shots, etc) outweigh the disadvantages of a linear system (even a d100 which is ultimately still a linear system).

Personally, I prefer Hit Locations to only come into play if a player specifically aims for something, otherwise they just slow down combat (in my experience) and lead to armless-legless PCs (not something most of my players are that keen on experiencing).

However, when I do use HL, I much prefer HERO's 3d6 Location roll. I think the linear nature of a simple d20 providing basically the same % chance to hit the head as there is to hit the chest (or nearly) is way off. Also the HERO method allows for Aim High, or Aim Low for when you are either doing something like a fist fight (and you just aren't ever going to hit the leg) or have a relative height advantage/disadvantage. And since the fantasy bestiary came out, there are all sorts of HL for weirdly shaped monsters.

How does BRP zero handle Two Weapon Combat?

I thought that super powers didn't work well with other power systems?

So how would you run a fantasy campaign with martial arts and mystic monks (spell casters)?

I disagree that adding special mechanics for MA would lead to 'rules bloat' or be any more complicated than a magic system. If you can remember what your cult spells do, I don't see how hard it would be to remember a few mods relevant to your particular MA.

The reason I'd like to see it is that I don't think a single skill encompasses the wide variety of possible MA, either in a realistic or wuxia style setting. I'll grant that the normal MA skill (2d3 damage vs the brawl) works in most modern settings wherein MA is simply a slight advantage. But if you want to run a game around the concept, or where it figures prominently, the lack of options could be a killer for some gamers.

Also, some MA are simply better at doing things than others. Grappling someone is not just about your STR versus theirs on the POT chart, it should also take into account your technique (which at least in Elric! is not done, and that's the latest BRP game I have... its even worse in MRQ wherein its entirely based on skill and doesn't really take into account the difference in str between the two combatants).

Anyway, that's just me.

I'd buy it if they did.

Are there a few people on this board who are interested in writing short scenarios for publication? I don't think I have the time to write a full book, but if I and a few others (say four) are willing to put in the time, we could put a nice supplement together.

We could split it up into different genres. Highlight the flexibility of the system. Anyone up for it?

Once I get my hand on the new book, yes.

Hello,

I'm an old school gamer who's been playing rpgs for 24 years. Started with d&d and t&t, and have played most games I could get my hands on at least once.

My first experience with BRP was Stormbringer, then CoC, then RQ3, Nephilim, Elric! and recently MRQ. I played the heck out of Stormbringer back in high school, and my brother has always been a huge fan of CoC. I never really got into RQ... while I like its divergence from the standard fantasy tropes, I guess that most of my players and myself never really got into Glorantha. I have always been impressed by the sheer detail of the setting, but some elements of the mechanics never really did it for me (hit locations!).

Anyway, I'm eager to see BRP 1 when it comes out in May (I hope) and I hope that it makes it over the pond to the UK!

They're there.

Difficulty modifiers are applied after the the skill rating is modified (x2 for Easy, x.5 if Difficult).

So, for example, if a doctor is in the hospital with all of his medical paraphernalia, handling a routine task will be Easy (x2 skill), and at +20% for the gear. Treating a rare condition might be a normal roll with some (but not ideal) gear might be a normal roll, with no modifier. If he's treating a rare condition on a muddy, rainy battlefield with no gear, it would be Difficult (x.5 skill) and -20% for no gear.

Ok, that sounds really good. Glad to hear it.

Yes, but devoid of the setting connotations.

They're generic enough so that you could use "Ǽsir/Christ" (for a Norse historical game), "God/Lucifer" (for a Christianity-based historical game), "The Light Side/The Dark Side" (Star Wars), "Windows/Mac" (the ultimate cyberpunk dystopia), or even "Flying Spaghetti Monster/Cthulhu" (the real world, of course).

LOL!

Thanks for the details, your responses are both enlightening and very entertaining . Do they work similar to Elric! as far as the bonuses they provide are concerned(hp, mp, or skills)? Or do they have other options?

One more question then I am off to bed...

The superpower section, is it like Superworld in that it has Flaws that give more power points?

Jason (et al)

Thanks for all the information! I really appreciate it! It just makes me want the book all that much more. I have a few more questions, but its quite late. My main one is about the Allegiance rules, they are optional rules in the book, correct? Are these like the rules in Elric!?

Again, thanks everyone!

The main point of the system that I like is the optional allegiance system. Characters can align themselves to deities or organizations, which is then measure by an Allegiance stat. This has given me the idea of creating a way for the various class abilities from DnD to be used in BRP.

While I’m still working out a system to handle this for my campaign, the general idea will be that players will align themselves with one of the deities in my campaign world and the more allegiance they gain with that deity, the more divine abilities they will have access to, this will include such things as the ability to cast divine spells to being able to turn undead.

Of course the PCs will have to decide if they will be a priest or warrior for their god, which will change the way they receive divine powers, but beyond that, I think it’s a very good system to use.

As far as the magic, mutations, psionic, super-powers system is concerned, if handled properly, I think you’ll be able to integrate them all into the same setting. Personally, I won’t be integrating all of them, but I can see how you could do that if that was the style of game you were interested in running.

I was going to hold off on buying the rules until the edited edition came out, but when they put Zero edition on sale on April 1st, I just had to buy it. I’m glad I did because it’s allowed me to go ahead and begin making the necessary rules I’ll need for my next campaign. Also, when the final edition does come out, I’ll basically have 2 rule books that I can use while my players are making characters/playing the game.

Sure the two won’t be exactly alike, but I don’t see them making to many changes between the two versions as they’re editing the book.

Oh and sorcery spells just work, no skill roll required, but they can be resisted.

Oh, they have an allegiance system in the base book? That's sweet! I love your idea of providing abilities based on allegiance. I hope you post it somewhere when you are finished with it. I'd love to see it.

Had I even known that BRP Zero existed, and that sale was on, I would have picked one up as well. But as I live in Scotland and won't be back to the states until summer, I figure I might as well wait and pick up one of the 'finished' books when they are out. Which is frustrating as I really want this book...

If Sorcery and Wizardry both have spells.... which handles summoning magic? Is Sorcery in BRP have anything in common with Sorcery from RQ3 or is more like the magic from Elric!?

Cheers!

1) Both fixed-AP and rolled options are given.

2) Yes, both aiming for general accuracy and aiming for specific hit locations (if you're going to use that option after all) are catered for. So you can use that to avoid armour - but there's no silly "-40% to auto-critical" rule like MRQ has).

3) Could probably be made to work by a crafty GM, but it's not recommended.

4) Yes, Easy and Difficult have x2 and x1/2 multipliers respectively (so much better than absolute penalties/bonuses like +20% or whatever, which were messy and arbitrary, although I think RQ3 etc did have them).

Soz - got to run, work calls... bleuch!

Cool. Thanks for the update.

Hum, I'm disappointed with the lack of difficulty modifiers. I disagree that they are arbitrary or messy, and find such much more easy to use (and providing a greater breadth of scope) than simply having 3 categories for all levels of complexity. That seems arbitrary to me personally. I think the environment and circumstances (not to mention equipment) should have more impact on the success and failure of a task. Ah well, easy enough to add in I suppose.

Another Couple of questions:

1) How is armor handled (set value, or rolled)?

2) Are there rules for aimed shots or attempting to avoid armor or anything like that?

3) Could a campaign work with the different power systems combined (a super next to a mutant or Wizard, for example) or are they too different in power?

4) Difficulty of tasks (something that bugged me about older BRP rules... no modifiers to skills based on the difficulty of the roll being attempted). Is this issue addressed at all?

Cheers!

First off, thanks for the info! I really appreciate it. It certainly makes me more excited about the new BRP. A few follow ups however...

There are some guidelines for this, including alternate means of character creations (for more competent characters), some combat rules that defy realism, a drama/fate point system, an alternate means of determining hit points for heroic characters (heroes and major villains get CON+SIZ, everyone else uses (CON+SIZ)/2), etc.

That's cool. Are there any rules for 'special abilities' outside of standard skills (like the old Ki Abilities, or anything similar)?

Oh, is there a 'point buy' system for attributes?

No guidelines on race creation, but RQ/SB/CoC-style stat blocks (with dice rolled) for all three of those, plus centaurs, halflings, minotaurs, and orcs, as far as fantasy critters go. Lots of other monsters, and a couple of dozen sample NPCs from a variety of settings.

That's a bit disappointing, but at least we have a basis to work with.

There are five power systems. Magic (a simple %-based classic magic system), Mutations, Psychic Powers, Sorcery, and Super Powers. Each works its own way, none are setting-specific, and they are pretty malleable.

When you say they are malleable, do you mean that there are rules and options for 'making them your own'? For example, if the base magic requires every spell to be a skill, and you couldn't wear armor while casting (just as an example) but someone wanted a 'high magic' world where-in all casting was tied to a single (or small number) of skills, and armor could be worn while casting, could these kind of changes be made without the system choking?

How is Sorcery different from Magic?

I noticed there is nothing that seems to include 'divine' magic. Can this sort of magic be handled by 'magic' or 'sorcery'? Would their fx change the mechanics at all?

Total HP is the default system. Hit locations are optional.

Cool. while I like HL systems, I always find they tend to slow down combat (as well as the dissatisfaction of high skill characters not being able to alter hits after the fact).

Speaking of which-how are multiple attacks handled? Is it dex based, or do they come at certain levels of skill?

The standard experience model is presented, though the GM may adjust the die used for a standard experience gain.

Cool. Which attribute experience model is used? Are there rules for training att/skills?

Happy to be of help!

Thank you so much! I'm really eager to get my hands on this book.

Hey,

New poster here.

I am really excited by the prospect of the new BRP book and am tempted to buy the Zero edition (even though I will probably simply wait till the edited version comes out). I've been a big fan of BRP since I got 2nd or 3rd (I forget which) ed Stormbringer, and then CoC, Nephilim, Elric!, and Runequest.

While I think that the basic engine of BRP is a good basis for a 'universal' system, I have questions about some specifics.

1) How much 'fiddle' room is there? If you want to use BRP for a more cinematic style game rather than a 'realistic' one, do they give rules/advice on doing it?

2) Race creation... is there any guidelines on such? Does the book contain some generic races for play (elf, dwarf, dragons, etc)?

3) Magic/Psionics/etc. How malleable are these systems? Every magic system I've seen for BRP is very world specific. Do they limit their example to a single style of magic, or do they have various systems you pick from, or rules to build your own system?

4) Total HP or Location HP? Do the power systems change dependent on which you use (1 Mp per d6 damage is one thing in a 'total HP' system, its something else entirely when targeting a location based hp)?

5) Skill/Attribute advancement... which of the many systems that BRP has used gets use this time or do they give you multiple choices?

Thanks for your time!