Tywyll

rjmeints@aol.com

He's been travelling, which may account for the lack of reply, so try the above.

Thanks for the info. Actually, that was the address I tried already (its the one given on the site).

I guess I'll wait till he's back home.

This is probably a strange place to ask, but...

Does anyone know how to get in touch with Rick Meints? I'm really interested in buying the Cult Compendium reprint book, but I've tried the email on the website (Empire of the Wyrm Friends) and not heard anything back for some time.

Any suggestions?

Another 'I suppose'.

I cannot abide a default low chance of success in percentile games. I do not understand why 'all else being equal' the chance to succeed isn't 50:50 and I am struck by the irony of a crap listener making you more likely to move quietly so I suppose I could use the 'for skills' formula to add a blanket +50 to skills for an uncontested test

Al

I totally agree! I personally think its simply an artifact from RQ1&2 being written in an era where all new PC's were supposed to be absolute crap at start. Lacking situational modifiers didn't help at all. That was something good that Rolemaster brought to the table with their skill system, and percentile games in general.

RuneLords in RQII got specific unique abilities for weapon skills over 100, which might be a source of inspiration.

Cheers,

Nick

Hey Nick,

Do you mean the 'anti-parry' rules that RL got, or were there other abilities detailed somewhere else? If so, where were those rules detailed?

Cheers!

I guess I was thinking about anime, overall, as a lot of genres within it does have its conventions. Basically, just pick and choose the conventions.

I wish I could think of a really good setting for a BRP game. One that would sell really good.

Honestly, I'm far more interested in generic material to a static world. I think the anime idea is great, a book about running different kinds of Anime would appeal to many more gamers than one about a specific kind of anime, which would then mostly appeal to specific fans of that show.

Some of my favorite gaming books have been the generic Hero supplements (specifically Ninja Hero and Ultimate Martial Artist, with Fantasy Hero a close second). Yes, specific settings can be great, but they are very dicey in my opinion and frankly I wouldn't pick up a specific setting unless there were mechanics in it I could yank for my own setting/campaign.

Ok, so I've been kicking this idea around for a bit, and at first I was going to discard it, but then I came back to it. I'm thinking I can make it work for my world setting.

First off, I'm using the variant idea of college magic (single skill for all the spells in a group) as that fits the feel of 'Sorcery' in my home brew. Here is what I've come up with so far-

INNATE MAGIC

Innate Magic, otherwise known as Sorcery, is a potent magic that derives from the power of a being’s nature. Otherworldy beings, or those with such beings in their ancestry, can manipulate Mana on a subconscious level, their body acting as a filter, tuning the mana into a specific kind or effect.

New Skill:

Sorcery <type>(0%)-characters choose from a specific kind of Sorcery, based around their mystical ancestry. Typically this would represent their nature, so an Iron Blooded Tryshallan would possess ‘Green Sorcery’, while a Kharic-Dun probably wields ‘Earth Sorcery’ (though don’t call it magic to his face).

Sorcery is an exceptionally difficult skill to learn and master. At character creation it can be no higher than 40/50/75/90 (depending on the power level of the game). Each percentile in Sorcery costs 2 skill points.

A Sorcerer can potentially attempt any spell within their field of magic. Each spell they attempt is rolled against their Sorcery skill, with a -5% penalty for every prerequisite spell that it would normally require (per Gurps list). Spells cost a number of MP equal to the normal fatigue cost . Effects cost an additional 1 MP for every 2 full prerequisite spells they possess that the caster lacks skill in. Each spell the character has currently operating is an additional -5% to their casting skill. For example-Elith the Green Sorcerer wants to cast walk through Plants. He has no spell skills, just Sorcery at 40%. Walk through Plants has 6 Prerequisite spells, meaning it will be cast a -30% and cost an additional 3 MP. Even using Ceremony, he can only raise his chance to double, or 20%. Good luck! If he knew Hide Path and Heal Plant, that would reduce his penalty by 10% to a -20%. Using Ceremony he could then increase his 20% to a 40%. A bit better of a chance.

Sorcery cannot be improved with experience, and it takes twice the normal time of study or training to increase (so a character with a 30% in Sorcery would have to spend 60 hours in training before they would see a potential benefit).

Sorcerers can choose to learn spells. Learning a spell takes 50 hours of research/contemplation x the number of prerequisite spells (so the Walk through Plants spell would require 300 hours of research). If trained by someone or something that knows the spell, this study time can be reduced by ½. Alternatively, a Sorcerer could manifest a spell spontaneously, though this is costly (in Hero Points-it costs one HP per Prerequisite spell). Once a character has learned the spell through whatever means, it begins at a level equal to their chance of casting the spell (i.e. their Sorcery skill -5% per prerequisite spell, Elith could learn Walk through Plants at a base 10% chance, or 20% if he knew the other two prerequisite spells). The advantages of spending the effort to master the effect are that Spells can be improved with experience, training time on spells is normal, and the cost in MP is reduced to whatever it would normally be. If a Sorcerer’s Sorcery skill improves after developing a spell, it has no effect on the spell. Starting Sorcerers can buy spells at a 1 for 1 in skill points, based off their final Sorcery Skill.

Other Casting Modifiers:

Gestures with only one hand: -10 percentiles

no hand gestures at all: -20 percentiles

Softly spoken incantations: -10 percentiles

no incantation: -20 percentiles

When a Sorcerer’s skill reaches 75%, all costs to cast and maintain effects are reduced by 1. At 100%, and every 25% additional skill, they are reduced again. This can reduce the cost of a spell, or its maintenance, to 0. Remember, however, that there is a progressive penalty for every spell you maintain.

Skill Effects-

Fumble: The caster loses their next action and all the MP the effect would have cost.

Failure: The caster loses a single MP.

Success: The spell takes effect as normal, and the caster spends the normal amount of MP.

Special: The spell takes effect. Temporal spells have their base duration changed to multiplied by 5. The spell costs ½ MP.

Critical: The spell takes effect at a cost of 1 MP. Temporal spells have their base duration multiplied by 10.

Really ?

I had the following RuneQuest 3 references in mind :

A 1-point spirit magic spell deals 1d3 damage.

A 3-points divine magic spell (which means 3 POW were sacrified to learn this spell) deals 3d6 damage.

In Sandy Petersen's Sorcery rules, a X intensity spell deals "1dX" damage.

Yes, Firearrow and Fireblade have a higher damage/MP ratio, but they require a weapon to be effective.

Our references are very different

Yeah, I'm referencing the new BRP Magic system. A character with Blast does 1d6 damage per MP (no hit locations). A character with fire/cold does 1d6 over an area, and each MP either increases that by d6 or increases the area.

I won't be playing with Hit locations, personally, so the BRP method (as well as the possible Gurps conversion) works just fine with the slightly higher damage.

Perhaps, I think a base chance around 35-40% is reasonable. Spells in Gurps are much more like recipes, they are not full-blown widely applicable skills, which IMHO warrants the relatively high base chance.

Which still leaves the problems of figuring out how a new character 'buys' spells with his starting points.

Isn't it redundant to add Magic category PLUS Magery if Magery and Magic category are functions of POW ?

Yes, I've been struggling with that actually.

I also think fatigue costs should be doubled to adequate MP costs.

I mean, casting a firebolt that deals 3d6 damage to a target with a 3 MPs expanse doesn't seem right to me, and most GURPS fatigue costs 1 to 4 fatigue points as far as I remember.

I disagree. 1 Fat in Gurps = 1d6 damage or 1 pt of armor. This is the same as it is now in BRP, at least in the Wizardry system. They are pretty much dead on equal.

What I meant was that they are a skills mechanic that is not percentiles based. You also have others like the Lhankor Mhy Head Smashing Ritual and demon abilities in Stormbringer.

I'm not certain how those abilities will help create balanced PC style effects. Maybe I'm just being slow?

Cults of Prax off the top of my head.

Ah, not exactly the easiest thing to get one's hands on. And don't thos emechanics still tie back to the cults, with little connection between the person learning the ability and their actual skill?

I would be very pleased to know the differences between french and US versions of Nephilim. Does anyone know what are those differences ?

I remember I really liked the system for Selenim magic. Those were "Black Moon" Ka nephilim that were deprived of their other ka elements. The supplement that described them was truly excellent. Basically, Selenim were "Ka sun" vampires and necromancers, with the power to build mystical, stronger images of themselves and "pocket realms" in Black moon ka fields.

They also had their own versions of summoning and Sorcery, but I don't recall them accurately.

which supplement detailed those rules?

Ki abilities from LoN? They are tied to skills, but the mechanic can give that cool Irish Hero like ability to leap, run fast or forever, and still loose if the opponent is better.

SDLeary

I'll be using those as well.

In our (very) long running game characters eventually went on heroquests and gained strange abilities. One didn't take falling damage, he would just float down. Another could see in even absolute darkness. One could never fail a Str check (the 'immovable object' character I have mentioned before). And yet another gained lightning fast reflexes (Dex SR of 0).

There really was no mechanic needed for any of these. They went on epic quests and returned with heroic abilities. They weren't balanced, but why should they be? They were more powerful than anyone except other heroes.

That's cool, and I'd have similar 'magical' abilities for great heroes to find/develop in my campaign, though since I don't run Glorantha, they would have nothing to do with 'Heroquesting'.

But what I'm looking for are abilities that transcend simply the mundane pass/fail that skills currently represent, and allow for a non-caster, non-religious characters to excel.

RQ has always had feats they were just called Chaos Features or Gifts and Geases

I don't really think that Chaos Features = 'Feats'. Growing Wings :eek: is a bit different from learning to better disarm a foe.

Gifts and Geases works if you have the rules for them, which I don't believe I do. What book are they in? The other flaw with that is that they are tied to religions and if you are playing in a world where god's are not so omni-present, or in which a warrior can master greater abilities without divine influence (say a martial arts heavy campaign) that simply isn't going to work.

By Jove you're right

I made the second table by splitting the blocks in the first (official) in half (so eight point granularity halved to 4) but you are certainly correct that it steepens for big numbers.

'My' table what I uses has +d2 for +5 Str+Siz or +d6 for +15 (as previously) posted and works well for me, the most recent was more of an off the cuff response to our chum reminding us of what the official chart is.

I am sure that someone who cared could massage the numbers.

Al

I'm not sure why the chart has to follow the same progression forever. Having one progression at the bottom for differentiating PCs, then having it increase in spread as it goes up, seems to make more sense to me.

Has anyone ever come up with a system for 'Bardic' style magic? Involving music and possibly instruments for spell casting?

How about rolling normal damage bonus, but limiting the damage bonus by the rolled weapon damage, or perhaps just limiting it by the maximum weapon damage.

That's just some ideas. Personally, I'm happy to let trolls, giants, and similar get their full damage dice. I don't mind giving some more granularity on the human end using 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, or similar. I also don't mind not having glancing blows for really big creatures. At the granularity of BRP, I'm happy to assume that glancing blows are simply misses and any damage (1 hp or more) is more than just a glancing blow.

I think that is where I am... which is to say I've always assumed a 'glancing blow' is one that doesn't actually do damage (since the pool of 'life force' i.e. HP is so small, even 2 or 3 damage can be a full 5th or quarter of someone's HP... not really a glance, I'd say). So yeah, if someone successfully dodged, I might describe that as them pulling aside at the last second and only getting 'nicked' by the sword they were avoiding.

Ok, before I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone converted Legendary Abilities from MRQ to BRP/RQ2-3?

I know a lot of people don't like them, and I don't like all of them, but some I do and I was thinking of trying to bring their mechanics inline with BRP for my own game. But, if someone's already done that, I'd love to see what they came up with.

Cheers!

Yes, this is what I usually mean when I prepend "I think" to a statement. Isn't it the same for you?

Of course, but to say someone else's discussion has 'little practical value', comes across as saying, "I'm bored of talking/have nothing left to say about this, so this conversation should end now."

I think this discussion has little practical value.

Perhaps not to you, but to others it does. I'm interested in hearing other people's ideas on the subject, as well as their personal experiences, either with the random damage bonus or with a flat one.

Ah, I didn't think of that aspect (i.e. comparing with other magic systems). Then it makes sense to allow a really skilled mage to maintain spells at no cost. The skill penalty is not that large but a failed concentration roll (for example after an injury) would probably mean that all maintained spells are dropped.

Yeah, that's another problem with converting the levels straight to level by 5%, or a -1 being simply a -5%, since those modifiers and skill levels are on a bell curve, and a flat -1 can quite easily equate to a heck of a lot more than 5%! But, from a play perspective, it would probably be the easiest modifier to apply.

Well, that would certainly work. The main thing is to not make it too easy nor too difficult to play a inexperienced mage.

Definitely agree with that.

I'll use the penalties. At high skill levels mages will be able to afford those penalties.

Sounds reasonable.

I'm referring to the lower cost to maintain spells that good casters get. See below...

I would use the reduced maintenance cost rule. Multiplying a Gurps skill level by 5 (as you did seems the right thing), so yes: at 75% the maintenance cost is reduced by 1, at 100% by 2 and at every additional 25 percentiles of skill by an aditional one point. The minimum cost would, still, be 1.

I think that if the duration is staying to a minute (on average) especially if you allow other magic systems in the same game, you'd have to allow high skills to eventually drop the cost to 0, as you can in Gurps. There are still penalties for casting spells while maintaining others (-1 per spell you have active, so I'd guess that would be a -5%), I think there is still a self correcting element to it.

Well, that would seem natural. That's how all other skills work. Perhaps one needs to consider increasing the "known spell" level to 50%. Since you must know all required spells, you would have to spend quite a bit of points just to get for example fireball. You would need a minimum of POW 15 plus 3 other specified spells to be able to learn fireball. The average cost would probably be around 30 points.

Actually, it's a bit wonky since technically skills that are a 0% are just that, and you have to buy them from there. Spells would, assumedly, start at 0 unless you bought them, at which they become 30% or whatever the new base is.

You could perhaps do something like the MRQ version, wherein you spend 10 skill points at which you gain the skill at INT+POW, and VHard Spells at (Int+Pow)/2. Then add Magery perhaps?

I would convert the gestures rules to penalties for not using a lot of gestures and voice:

Omitting the foot movements: -10 percentiles

Gestures with only one hand: -10 percentiles

no hand gestures at all: -20 percentiles

Softly spoken incantations: -10 percentiles

no incantation: -20 percentiles

I would keep the lower casting costs, but I'll use MP not FP.

At what point would you become immune to those penalties though? As I understand it, you simply can't cast those spells without doing those gestures and rituals, until a certain level of skill at which point you lose those requirements, but you aren't able to cast without the rituals. Or would you simply use the limitations instead?

Lower casting cost? The spells cost seems about the same between the two systems. Sometimes mush more (Protection costing 2xpt of protection and only lasting a minute!).

I would use MP to fuel spells. So I would leave durations as they are, maintaining a spell will eat up a mage's MP really fast...

That doesn't seem particularly fair to the casters, unless you are keeping the rules that at a certain level of skill you can reduce the maintenance cost of a spell (15 or higher in gurps reduces the maintenance by 1 per round, allowing many protective spells to be maintained for free, ). When would that kick in? 75% for -1(15)? 100% for -2(20)? 125% for -3(25)?

Well as far as I can see there are are very few modifications you need to do.

1) Magery. In Gurps magic only those with special talent can deal with complex spells. Magery comes in levels, the recommendation is to have no more than four levels in a standard fantasy setting. I would suggest a rule that states that people with less than POW 15 has no magery. At POW 15 you get Magery 1, at POW 17 you'll have Magery 2 and so on up to POW 23 and Magery 5.

2) Learning Spells. Since the system really only works with skills per spell you'll need to have a fairly high skill base. I would suggest a base of 30 for ordinary spells and a base of 15 for very hard (difficult) spells. Allow the character to add 5 percentiles per point of Magery to the base.

3) Spell requirements. You need to know a required spell. I would rule that once you have skill level 40 in a spell then you understand it good enough so that you could learn spells that depend on it.

4) Measurements. Gurps uses imperial measures. There are not that many of those in the book though. Distances are measured in hexes which is equal to one yard, so it could easily be converted to one hex = one meter. The few other instances of imperial measures are easily dealt with.

5) Modifiers. Modifiers are given as bonuses or penalties of one or more points (Gurps uses skill levels from 1 and up). Multiply by 5 to get the equivalent BRP modifier.

6) Skills. There's really only one skill that needs to be converted: Innate attack. It's the ability to target missile spells and other supernatural powers at targets at a distance.

7) Range. Spells are divided into classes or broad types. Missile spells will need some kind of range rule instead of the Gurps one. I would suggest that a mage could fire a missile up to MP * 5 meters with no penalty. Above that his Innate Attack skill would be halved.

8) Casting Time is given in seconds, use SR instead.

9) Durations are given in minutes etc. and need not be modified.

10) Resistance. Spells are resisted using attributes, as given in the spell descriptions. Just use CON for HT, POW for WILL and so on. You could download GURPS Lite to get the basics of the system to help with this conversion.

11) Damage. I would suggest ruling that spells that deal damage does 1d6 points of damage per power point used.

There's also a chapter on how to build magic items. That seems to be easy to integrate with BRP, or you could use the rules from RQ or MRQ.

That's it really.

That's pretty cool. Perhaps starting skill in a spell could be different for hard spells and VHard spells. Though, the next question is: how do you learn them at character creation? Can you just put 1% into them and then get them at 30%+1%+Magic Category+Magery?

How would you handle the spell mastering ability (i.e. the fact that at certain higher skill levels you stop needing to use gestures and such, and the spells cost less)?

Would you leave the duration as they are in Gurps (baring in mind that Fatique recovers faster than MP) or would you upgrade the durations? Or would you simply allow MP of characters using this system to recover more quickly?

Cheers!

I cannot see any real advantage in having a fixed number for the damage bonus. RQ3/CoC have a sudden increase in damage bonuses, going straight from 0 to 1d4, and this may result in the "poor granularity" you lament. MRQ uses the same progression as RQ4 (1 step every 5 pts. of combined SIZ and STR), but with dice (1d2, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8 etc.). My group has adopted the RQ4 damage bonus, and the result is not really satisfactory. All considered, I prefer the dice.

What is unsatisfactory about it? It seems like it would not only make larger creatures more accessible, but allow characters to feel the difference in their stats more.

I'm curious why they didn't like it.