jajagappa

4 hours ago, creativehum said:

HW was the use of lists for the Affinities

They're really still there in HQG, just not in a table format.

The affinity is simply the rune used to approach the god.  E.g. Argan Argar in HQ1 had 3 affinities (Exchange with Others, Son of Darkness, Husband-Protector), the first being the Issaries/Exchange rune and the other two being Darkness rune.  In HQ2/HQG, if you place your Initiate of Argan Argar under your Issaries/Exchange rune, you effectively have the first affinity; if under your Darkness rune, you effectively have the latter two (or could state more explicitly if desired).  In SKoH or Sartar Companion, they are still noted as affinities.  In HQG, they are just listed as the god's Runes but Rune or (Rune) Affinity are effectively the same.

The magics you can easily get are based on that choice.  In HQ1, Husband-Protector lists these feats: Befriend Uz, Hide Wealth, Overcome Rival, Protect Earth, Sheltering Shade.

In SartarCompanion, you get "An incomplete list of the abilities his cultists have been known to use the Darkness Rune for includes: halt trolls; placate trolls; dismiss dehori; stop anything born of the Underworld; take Darkness form; walk unseen and unheard in darkness and shadows; create pools of shadows; extinguish light; command and summon beings of Darkness;"...

If you want to keep player choices minimized or channeled, it's easier to go with the short list.  But if you really want to reflect some aspects of what the god can really do (and by reflection what the character could do), then the incomplete list gives you a lot more room for development. 

3 hours ago, Baulderstone said:

It is Harrek. It's from a really nice two-page spread in the Guide to Glorantha.

It's also reprinted in HQG - slightly smaller version.

8 hours ago, creativehum said:

I must have a weird edition of the book. I'm looking at it right now and I see Orlanth Rune spells on page 69, Kyger Litor Rune spells on p. 72, and Black Fang Brotherhood Rune spells on 72. Note that I'm not claiming any kind of comprehensive list of rune magic (clearly not). But it does seem to be there.

Yes, those were specific examples of the generic "Runepower" rune magic spells.  And those were expanded on with Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror in RQ2, and later with Gods of Glorantha in RQ3.  HW/HQ1 continued this, though rather over-splintered/fragmented into lots of little gods.  HQG has returned more to the roots from RQ2.

Reading back through your posts, my sense is that you'd like to play through more of the initial character development and growth as in this comment: 

Quote

While I appreciate that HQ:G nails this all down concretely in character creation, for reasons stated above I am intrigued with holding that off and making the learning of the mysteries of the runes being something earned through play.

So, yes, RQ2 pretty much started you out assuming that you had reached adulthood (in HQG terms, you would have awoken your runes at that point), but not yet joined a cult.  It did little to develop the community you started with - one aspect of the Old School Gaming where you start off as an adventurer out to see the world.

HQG's character generation assumes you've passed initiation into a cult.  It also assumes you're part of the community that you grew up in whether in a Sartar clan, a neighborhood of New Pavis, etc. 

However, there's nothing in HQG to keep you from starting earlier.  HQ2 offered several variants in character generation, only one of which was explicitly used in HQG, that would readily allow you to create less advanced characters.

And if you want to run the coming of age story to define your runes, that's fully possibly in HQG.  Just leave out the Rune keywords!  Begin them with initiation into the community to help them identify at least their Elemental rune.  If you're playing in Sartar (or Pavis), best place to start for that opening quest is here: Prince of Sartar: the Uncles.  Pages 2-6 outline the initiation for boys to become men.  Ernalda's initiation for girls to become women is elsewhere. 

The Elemental affinity will align them to likely cults they then may want to join.  As most cults hold initiations at most once a year, sometimes every other year, your characters may have some time to wait, as well as proving themselves ready.  Perhaps these adventures reveal their final runes?

If you look at the example character sheet in the 1st design notes, RQ Design notes pt 1, you'll find a couple of the Form runes.  I'd expect the Form runes to continue to play a part as well.

6 hours ago, creativehum said:

1. Are the runes PCs start with in HQ:G the same runes that PCs once sought out in RQ? That is, do the PCs start with what they once had to work to get? Am I understanding this correctly?

2. If so, why was it changed?

3. How does this play out for people? What are the advantages and disadvantages for each method?

4. Does anyone using the HeroQuest rules and new source books utilize the rune quest logic of earlier editions?

1. The Runes themselves have not changed - they are the building blocks of Glorantha.  RQ (whether 2 or 3) really did not explore use of, or even getting runes (and it's important to understand that runes are not like magic objects or weapons - they are what compose everything much like everything in our world is built off of atoms and molecules).  PC's did join rune cults and the cults had runic associations, but there was nothing that truly utilized the runes.  HQ2/HQG incorporated the idea that you inherently have certain runes as part of your self, though from a Gloranthan perspective the concept has been around for a long time.

2. All current efforts, whether HQG, 13th Age, or RQ are incorporating the runes in ways that really make them part of the world and game experience - fulfilling the promise suggested in classic RQ, but never implemented then.

3. HQG provides the runes as keywords to shape your PC's character, personality, magics, and affinity to join certain cults.  They work very well in this regard.  I haven't really explored the use in 13th Age Glorantha yet.  As the Design Notes for the new RQ version indicate, runes finally play a role, both upfront in character design and in play as related to your cult associations, magics, etc.  It's a different style of play, but again offers ways to utilize runes.

4. There never was any content for classic RQ that centered on questing for runes.  They primarily served to define cults and cult affinities and that was about it.  I run a couple HQG campaigns and while we've never had a quest to specifically gain a rune (quite feasible, but no reason to do so yet), I've had two players/PCs who have had runes change in the midst of play based on in-game events. 

It looks like you gave Aldrya the Beast rune instead of the Plant rune.

Or... the seven cities of DH which were reinvoked by the Red Emperor (with their celestial protectors)

Or... the seven granddaughters of the Red Moon

Or... the seven wanes of the Lunar Empire

Or... the seven servants who wait upon the Emperor

Or... the seven phases of the Moon

Or... the seven government monopolies begun by Artifex

Or... the seven daughters of Militaris

Or... the seven High Gods (Jernotians) of Pelanda

17 hours ago, Baniak said:

Does the town have a mayor? Or does the sheriff run the whole show?

If you want authenticity, most New England towns do not have mayors.  Instead they have an annual town meeting where all citizens can come, raise issues, and vote on the issues.  It usually includes election of the town board members (selectmen) who handle administrative tasks, town clerk, and whatever other officials are need.

5 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

While that was true when those issues were published, when Tadashi left Chaosium in 1985 to strike out on his own he took the ownership of Different Worlds magazine with him. If you look at later issues of the magazine you will see that it was published by Sleuth Publications.

Thanks for clarifying!

21 hours ago, MOB said:

I don't what the copyright status of material in Different Worlds is, but that is precisely the reason why reprinting Tales of the Reaching Moon is unlikely: the editorial policy of Tales was that copyright of all the material published in the magazine (artwork & articles) is retained by the original authors.

I scanned through a few of my old issues I have at hand (#4, 15, 17, 22) and all indicate published and copyright by Chaosium.  Looks like they fall into same status as WF. 

46 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

drizzle always drizzle ...... sorry that's manchester

(or Liverpool :-) )

And I'd bet the Castle Coast is like that as well - dreary place where the Fogs of Brithos roll in all the time...

50 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

So what kind of weather can my poor players be expecting in the Wastes during Dark Season? It's the first day of the season for them, their light/fire magic is weak and the shadows are lengthy...

Looking at GtG, you could get hard, cold winds coming down from Pent to battle the Urox Storm which seems to hover over the Wastes and blow into Prax.  I'd expect cool to cold nights, where you might get dew or frost on the ground in the morning (White Princess, Dew Maid pass by and calm the immediate area).  The farther north in the Wastes, the more likely to hit colder winds or a battle between cold bitter winds and stinging dust winds.  Probably a good time for dust storms farther south in the Wastes perhaps with stinging clouds of copper.  Otherwise probably mild, seasonable temperatures.

2 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

6) Dressed stone is the preserve of the rich

I can think of exceptions in both Nochet and Pavis/Big Rubble where dressed stone previously used by the rich becomes available for reuse by survivors of various devastation (e.g. Veskarthan's eruption and the subsequent tidal waves washing over Nochet and leaving it with great ruins and 5000 people; nomadic and troll invasions of Old Pavis).

Completing another triad:

To: Galacrustus, Geographer, Sage of Irripi Ontor, Imperial Survey Office, Mirin's Cross

Fr:  Iridascius, Aide to Quinscion, His Most Excellent General of Procurement and Disbursement, Mirin’s Cross

Dated: Crescent-Come, Harmony, Fire, 7/46

In light of the recent complaints by a merchant named Bulverius, who styles himself "Ambereye", regarding clans of storm worshippers hostile to his association's venture at a site called Amber Fort beside the Elf Sea east of Imther, my most esteemed lord has determined that a current and correct assessment of the clan populations of Imther is in order, as well as a report on the presence of storm worshippers through these clans.

I have reviewed the filed report by Ludoxus of Jillaro entitled "A Catalogue of Imtherian Places", compiled in 7/39 per order of General Yugla-oor during the late and lamentable civil war.  It is my firm belief that said Ludoxus not only did not visit the sites noted in his report, but in all likelihood never ventured farther than Hilltown, and I suspect spent his entire time, and the general's coin, in one inn or another there.  His estimates of the populations of villages are wildly exaggerated as if they are in fact cities, and his estimate of Hortugarth would make it a rival of Filichet!  Further, he shows a complete ignorance of the tribes and clans of Imther, totally oblivious to the presence of the Laramite, Wilktar, and Afothae kings who were busy fighting each other under his own nose!  This needs immediate correction so that the tax collectors can attend to their tasks and ensure appropriate delivery of tribute.

Please complete your assessment before the snows close the mountains to travel!  And please do not consider this the time to assess the quality and quantity of marble or other stone, or the accuracy of the maps in the Survey Office, or engage in debates with the lawspeakers and wild sages of the clans.  Quinscion would be most displeased to hear of any delays, and you know where the dung would stick! 

Yours, Iridascius

I should note that receipt of sufficient wheels of Mountain Marble or well-aged Vakthan's Blue might please our most esteemed lord and reduce his ill humor, particularly if accompanied by some barrels of fire wine.  And you are well acquainted, of course, with my own tastes.  

To:  Iridascius, Aide to Quinscion, His Most Excellent General of Procurement and Disbursement, Mirin’s Cross

Fr: Galacrustus, Geographer, Sage of Irripi Ontor, Imperial Survey Office, Hilltown

Dated: Dying, Stasis, Dark, 7/46

Thank Hwarin for the beneficence of her temple!  For surely without it, and the grace of her most reverend priestess, Rasefala, I would be confined to some filthy hovel of an inn, or worse boarding in some flea-ridden, goat-stinking stead (of which I have had more than enough during this mission of yours!). 

The cheeses requested and the fire wine (a poor vintage this year I'm afraid - Lord Daltach claims that the visit of the bat several years ago had a detrimental effect upon the subsequent harvests) accompany this post, as well as three barrels of good cider (for yourself since you've noted previously that cider gives his most excellent general gas) and a wheel of rare Zarkoni Ice Rind, a goat's milk cheese they say is aged upon the high slopes of Giant Top Mountain (the Zarkon clan from which I obtained it also stated that it is one of the Three Finest Cheeses of Imther, known throughout in ancient tales).

Unfortunately, I do not accompany this post since the interminable bad weather has made the roads passable only to fish and fowl and I have still to complete the survey of the Wilktar tribe.  Hopefully, his most excellent general will find that satisfactory for the moment. 

This is only the preliminary survey of the Laramite clans as I found them; sufficient, I believe, for the needs of his most excellent general.  I will deliver further details to you as I have time to take advantage of the scribes of this most wondrous temple.  You really should see the marble work here!  The statue of Hwarin herself is stunning - the shield of the Empire yet she is open-handed in her blessings upon this land.  And the statue of Jannisor, though substantially smaller in scale, captures his commanding presence as well as the sadness of the wandering storm.

Yours, Galacrustus.

Laramite Tribe

Size: 12,500

Clans: 9

King: Arkarnax Erthex of the Sterneyes

Tribal Seat: ostensibly Kareiston's Temple, but King Arkarnax has made Sidherius his stronghold

Earth Temple: Hortugarth

This large and ancient tribe claims to have been the greatest and most powerful tribe in the aftermath of the Dragonkill, dominating the entire Black Eel valley until the defeat of the Kynnelfing Alliance.  Laram Redhorse was their founder and first king.  He came down from the mountains of Imther, sealed Daga in an Iron Box, recovered the Golden Bridle of Beren, married Redaylde Redmane, and formed the tribe.  Onstheus of the Mastine clan, the Shield of Imther was their next great king.  He wielded a spear, a sword, and a club to equal effect, mastered the Hound of the Ashen Hearth, and was friend and companion to Jannisor.  Raptor Marthorsson of the Mallust clan was the third great king, famous for proving his lineage to the dwarfs to become King of Imther, assaulting and slaying the Night-mantled Warlord, and unleashing the Lightning Spear and the Seven Winds to overcome the Lord of the Black Stallions.  Now, disputes and grudges from the Civil War and earlier grow more intense amongst the Laramite clans.  King Arkarnax' judgments grow harsher, often fueled by his own queen, Black Drastis.  Intrigues arise from the Queen of Holay, who promises rich rewards to those who join her tribes.  And King Margor of Imther promises revenge and retribution on any and all who betray him.

Clans of the Laramite Tribe

Argon

"The Golden Pear Clan"

Chief:  Harbus Argon Coin-counter

Centered around Apimara's Rest where the annual Festival of Life is held, this clan is known for its fine pears and perry (a pear-based cider).  They've held the rich and fertile Golden Fields south of Hortugarth since 1461 when the horse lords were driven out, though the Queen of Holay took part of the lands north of the Old Dog River for her own as her reward for helping 'end' the Civil War.  The clan is loyal to Khelmal and Ernalda, but is well known for its Issaries and Alakarma merchants.  Legend states that the Argon ancestors led the armies of Kareiston against the evil queen Balurga, and the clan and their ancestors still guard the border of the Plain of Stones.

Erthex

"The Holy Clan", "The Old Goat Clan"

Chief:  Arkarnax Sterneyes

The tribal king Arkarnax is also clan chief and holds the hill fort of Sidherius surrounding Old Bald Top in the Sidha Gap along the Pilgrim Road.  An ancient rock called King Goat Head sits in a large urn field here and is invoked in seasonal rituals to protect against disease and kinstrife or to aid in virility and herding.  The clan itself is most prevalent in the rugged foothills south of the mountains, and is consider the holiest of the ancient Laramite clans since they maintain the shrines of the Five Old Winds and Ernalda's Dreams.  The clan also claims close associations with the kingdom's founders, Imthus and Aidea, and has sworn to uphold the King's  line even now when it's reached it's end.  The tribal queen, Black Drastis, is a skilled witch who learned Three Secrets in Ernalda's Dreaming Palace and Three Curses in the Dark Halls of Asrelia.

Valusi

"The Two Waters Clan", "The Feuding Clan"

Chief: Corvoral Greenhand

A strongly conservative and traditionalist clan which descended to the Southlands in 1349 from near Central Mines when kinstrife led Valus to break from the Polan clan after the defeat of Irnath Winterking.  The feud between Valusi and Polan remains to this day and is considered one of the Three Great Feuds of Imther.  The clan seized the lands along the upper Isildon vale from the Erthex, Hallite, and Laramar clans and feuds and raids between them continue to this day.  The Valusi have notable shrines to Isildon and Heler, the Two Waters, and is thought to harbor a secret shrine to Orlanth somewhere deep in the Boar Run Woods.  Several Valusi legends indicate that the return of the Earthwielder will occur when the Stone Spear returns.  Though the meaning of this is obscure, members of the clan are always watching for such a relic to appear. 

...

Kareiston's Temple, small temple city

Size: 1000

Count: Erhamal Nightcrest, Upholder of the Torch of Truth

Said to be the most ancient of the Sun Dome Temples, it predates those second age temples and originated with Mahzanelm's march into these lands and culminated with the destruction of the Queendom of Balurga.  Not only is its temple layout distinct from other Sun Dome Temples, but it is dominated currently by the cult of Khelmal, though Yelmalions and even some Elmali are present.   Count Nightcrest claims this state of affairs to be natural as the Many Suns vied for the hand of Ernalda Reladiva after Yelm was slain.  Each Fireseason, a great fair and tribal council is held here.  The tribal king dispenses justice during this grand event, aided by his Lawspeaker and the Torch of Truth; the new men of the tribe are initiated through the Trials of the New Sons; and many marriage arrangements are made between clans.

A bit of Imtherian history:

The Founding of the Laramite Tribe

Sing silver-shielded Hwarin of horse-loving Laram

Sing of the hearts of heroes: bold hearts, brave hearts, broken hearts.

Sing of the Bridle of Beren, sing of red-maned Redalyde

Sing of clawed curses bought by the blackheart for base coin

Sing of the bone road, grey grasper and her resting rose bud

Sing of blood’s bounty: bright heads and broad striders.

Laram and his friend Erthek were born in 1118 ST in the hidden shelter of the Whispers where the old boar, Stormtusk, hunted for hidden heartroot.  They were but children when the news of the Dragonkill was brought back to the Hundred Widows.

In 1133 ST, they followed the Pilgrim's Way to Giant Top, avoiding the Stinking Giants, bargaining with Raven and gaining the Old Knot, and hunting down the Hundred Black Mice of Aga Raan.  At Giant Top, they flew to the top past the Stinging Wasps, met the Lost Ancestors, and slew the Hidden Broo who awoke during the rites.  Laram returned with the Trident of Mastery upon his brow, while Erthek held the Two-Fold Magics.

Erthek was first to reveal his new powers when he mastered the Five Old Winds, and freed Orlanth from the Dragonknot.  Laram found his way into the Nest of Debris in Vanch where he recovered the Golden Bridle of Beren.  With the bridle and the Old Knot, he tamed the Far-running Stallion and began his campaign against Withan Longwhisker.  Laram found the mouse hole and entered Underhill where he bargained for the Iron Box.  He found Daga then and bound the skeletal demon within the Iron Box, tied tight with the Old Knot, and cast the box into the depths of Lake Invaress.  Erthek called Heler back to refresh and renew the dried land.

Laram retreated to the mountains to seek counsel from Orlanth.  When he returned two years later, he gathered the old clan and the young clan, the clan of Erthek and the clan of Malus, the earth clan and the wind clan.  United, they formed a ring and fashioned a new tribe and Laram was chosen King. With the backing of his tribe, Laram wooed and won Redalyde Redhair. 

Angry Withan cursed them with the Three Foul Curses.  Kibrogar took the first curse to himself and fell to the Wasting.  Redalyde fell into the Deep Sleep of the second curse, but Laram and Erthek were born in the Whispers and the Whispers of the Night were no terror for them.  They found the Old Deep Path and took the Hope of Khelmal and journeyed deep into the Dreaming Palace.  Laram awoke his Queen and they returned to breathe life again into the tribe and land.  The Five Old Winds were freed and they hunted down Withan Longwhiskers and slew his champions before Sargreth Kibrogarsson gained vengeance for his father's death.

For his efforts, Redalyde offered Laram the Bounty of the Land - he could have accepted the Sovereignty of Saird or the Blessing of Sons, but chose only the Earthfirm Sandals that would protect his tribe after he was gone as long as someone of his line still wore them.  [And to this day, the Laramite tribe still stands firm though no one knows who wears the Sandals.]

Over on G+ thread, there was a little hint of an old map of Imther.  I'm not including that here since it's out-of-date and non-canonical, but have included a couple maps showing the rough arrangement of the Laramite tribe in the south of Imther and the eastern wilds stretching to Balazar (where much of my old campaign occurred).  Overlays done on top of relevant section of the Argan Argar Atlas. 

p.52 - last paragraph, 'Veralzi' misspelled as 'Varalzi'

12 hours ago, evilgaz said:

but what does an adventurous Ernaldan look like?

See the current Prince of Sartar episode.  http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/71-the-master-of-this-house/

Or the sketches of Ernalda priestesses here: http://www.glorantha.com/sketch-of-two-ernalda-priestesses/

Many of the earth priestesses receive visions from the earth goddess.  Perhaps she has a vision of one of the other PC's and that vision entails protecting some part of the earth from chaos or some other foe.

10 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Well, Tiryns actually, but yeah...Elkoi

I recall at some point someone noting that the 3 Balazar citadel layouts in Griffin Mountain were taking directly from Mycenean originals.

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

If you are staying reasonably close to the river, an adventurous Zola Fel worshipper might be a good addition as a native guide, too. (An intelligent fish woud be rather limited in adventuring options, though - the other eligible species wouldn't pose much of a challenge.)

But there's also the Newtling option with that, and they could travel further afield.

8 hours ago, boztakang said:

If the myth is interesting and "feels right" then it should probably work reasonably well. If the fit stretches credulity, or the PCs try to over-use a myth they had success with before, it is time to throw in some uglier complications, or unexpected consequences.

Yes!  And this is where I feel you need to at least align some of the right factors (needs to start on the right day, have the right companions or weapons or trade goods, etc.) or else it's more likely to go off track

8 hours ago, boztakang said:

In the troll example, if it works to plan, your friend playing the "troll" part boosts your Orlanth magic a bit, and makes the rest of the "quest" a bit more likely to match the intended myth, with very minimal risk.

And with very minimal reward.  That's the price for 'stacking the deck'.

Or, alternately, just because you try to minimize the risk, there is no guarantee that it will in fact do so.  The 'troll' may not play the part correctly, miss some key actions, and instead of the 'easy' quest, you find yourself under attack by a Death Lord and his legion of Undead.

11 hours ago, Steve said:

But I still think it's going to be extremely difficult to find a suitable myth to fit any particular situation the PCs find themself in.

I think that is true.  And I don't think you can simply declare yourself to be on a heroquest in the middle of a raid (just because it somewhat conforms to your raid does not mean it will have any magical implications).  But I do think you could initiate a heroquest in the right circumstances - but it takes time to do so, it takes getting the right accoutrements, and to establish the right frame for the quest.  And that creates risks that should seriously warn off the unprepared.

As a hero/PC, I can decide to go off and raid the Sazdorf Ruins with the goal to steal the High Priestess' magical sandals.  There's no specific heroquest involved.  If I succeed, I have the sandals.  If I fail, I'm likely one of the heads on Sigron's wall.

Now, my party of adventurers could decide to make this raid into a heroquest.  One of the party may be a priest of Orlanth, knows the myth of the Sandals of Darkness, and knows the steps to undertake it as a This World Heroquest.  To do so, the PC's need to start on the Hill of Orlanth Victorious (which is not that far away).  Of course, that happens to be occupied and guarded by a Lunar patrol, so there's a complication just to start the quest.  But the PC's dispatch the patrol and perform the ceremony and ritual to invoke the quest and get underway.  Now, there's a slight issue here - there's very little or no community support - the only folk present to perform the ceremony are the PC's and they'll be on the quest.  The PC's go merrily off on their quest, find the Back Door to the Sazdorf caves and go in.  They've ritually entered the 'Underworld' station, though because it's a This World quest, it's still just the Sazdorf caves.  But as they descend, they are attacked by the ghosts of the Lunars they killed (whose souls got dragged along by the PC's because they were ritually heading to the 'Underworld') - that's a surprise!  And further in they encounter an Argan Argar merchant.  He offers them hospitality.  And in the ritual maybe the PC's are supposed to pledge the 'friendship of their community' in return.  But they can't because they didn't get such support in the first place.  The Argan Argar merchant turns away, and the PC's are set upon by 'Zorak Zoran' and his legion.  Later expeditions to the Sazdorf find the heads of said PC's decorating Sigron's wall.

The proper way for these PC's to begin the This World Heroquest is within their community where they convince their Chief that they should raid the Sazdorf clan because the High Priestess has the Sandals of Darkness and their clan needs those to survive.  The community blesses the ritual, adding their own magic in some fashion into it.  Perhaps its in the form of a feather of a red-headed woodpecker, or the drinking horn from a red cow, or something else.  This will help the quest at some critical point.  And there will still be surprises, but at least they start on the  right foot.

And then there is the Otherworld Heroquest which may start very similarly to the This World Heroquest getting community support.  But when the heroes descend from Orlanth's Hill at the start of the ritual, they are no longer on the mundane plane but in the midst of the Gods War during the Darkness.  And they do literally descend into the Underworld.  And they may encounter the ghosts of Lunars they have killed upon the Endless Path towards the River of Swords before they come to the Castle of Lead where Kyger Litor resides.  Etc.

40 minutes ago, soltakss said:

However, if you go on a GodTime HeroQuest to the Founding of Pavis then you can go to the mythic point, as the Founding of Pavis is a Mythic Event. Changes you make are only reflected in Glorantha after that point, so you couldn't change history, but you could change the nature of Pavis itself.

That is what Gbaji did to the trolls - he HeroQuested in time but created a Mythic Event in GodTime. When trolls try to stop him, they travel to the Mythic Event in GodTime, or use that Mythic Event to overlay on normal time.

Since Pavis was founded in the 2nd Age, you cannot go to the Godtime Founding of Pavis - there was not one.  What you could do is to figure out what rituals Pavis followed to build his city. Perhaps there was the Trading Blanket of Issaries in Genert's Garden where Issaries shows Genert and Seolinthor how to exchange items.  That you could reach.  But not the Founding of Pavis.

As for Gbaji, when the gods intervened in the mundane plane at the Battle of Night and Day, the Compromise broke and the entire battle/event was in the Godtime at that point.  But ritually it can be thought of as the Sun's invasion of the Underworld and the power of the sun to harm the Hell Mother, and that is where the trolls quest to.

1 hour ago, Steve said:

I don't really see how references to "attacks", in terms of a heroquest, make sense.. You can't go and "attack" another clan as part of your heroquest, although you could go on a heroquest that involves a myth that is something to do with that clan, though that still wouldn't mean you "attack" them. In a This World heroquest, you're still acting out part of your myth, not just going on a random raid.

You could say that you want to raid the Greydogs in order to steal the power of Minlister (the brewer) from them.  This has mythic overtones, and you can set it up as a This World Heroquest where the goal is that you have the magic power that they currently have (maybe it is part of the Greydog clan wyter).  But you need to put it into the context of an existing myth and some will work better than others.  The mythic hero Vingkot went on many raids, including against Alkoth (which is part of the Underworld and Sky World), but using those as a basis won't do much good in this case - the foes and the stations of the quest will be 'wrong' and who knows what may happen to the raid.  But Minlister uses a huge magical cauldron named Karni that was taken from the water gods by Orlanth and the Thunder Brothers.  You need to follow this quest if you want to steal the Greydog's magical cauldron and its powers for yourself.  Therefore, you have to cast the Greydogs as the 'Water Gods' in the quest in order to be successful (think of it as staging a big interactive 'play' where you are casting the parts but need to have the 'right' people in the 'right' roles).  The easiest 'water god' to cast the Greydogs as is Heler before he joined the Storm Tribe.  To do this, you likely need to be at some place (perhaps beside the Sword River or the Creek) and you 'summon' your 'enemy' (the Water Gods) in a specific ritual that brings both Heler's rain clouds and the Greydog warriors (they may feel a magical 'pull' in this case, or their wyter feels a threat and orders them to defend their land, etc.).  If you defeat the Greydogs ('water gods'), then you can raid their camp and find their magical cauldron and take it for your own.

So as Steve notes, this is not a 'random raid', but a very prescribed raid based on an ancient storyline that needs the 'right' acts, characters, and components to succeed well (otherwise you may just end up with someone's wineskin sack) or you are driven off (and now you have some vulnerability to the 'water gods').