Jeff

On May 10, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Baragei said:

It is interesting to note that all the events are RQ6 - which will, at the time of playing, no longer be the official RuneQuest.

Weren't Chaosium planning on showing off the new RQ7 at GenCon?  

I will be showing off the new RQ at GenCon. We are having a panel to go over it, walk through the rules, etc. I'm not going to run a session of it, as running games at GenCon is not a very good use of my time (much as I'd like to do it). 

The terminology used is that of the God Learners, who identified three basic approaches to magic - Rune magic (sacrificing to gain some part of a god's Runic power), Spirit Magic (use of the spirits who embody the animals, plants, places, and objects), and sorcery (manipulation of the cosmic laws to create an effect). Most human cultures have at least a vestigial acknowledgement of the spirits that reside everywhere in Glorantha - and the term has broad applicability.

20 hours ago, Zit said:

Isn't there a contradiction here ? Saying that "spirits reside in the natural energies" is definitely an animistic point of vue, and not a materialist or even theistic one. Are all the cultures animist in Glorantha ? In order to conciliate these differents conceptions, couldn't we understand Spirit Magic instead as "effect triggered by the mental force of the caster", which resides, as we all know , in his spirit ? Whatever are these forces, spirits or energie currents or god's will, is left to each culture.

 

 

The presence of spirits are recognized by all Gloranthans, not just those who practice shamanism. Even a Brithini atheist acknowledges that there is a magical energy that surrounds everything "living" thing (I use that term very broadly) and that there are savages who specialize in communicating with and bargaining with those senseless forces. Such magic is limited, crude, and vastly inferior to sorcery, but it is definitely there.

Now many of those spirits serve the gods, and most spirit places are also important holy places to various cults. Priests and Rune Lords have rites by which they can teach any spirit spell they know to an initiate of their cult. And so on.

I think people are making more of a rigid distinction here than actually exists. Pretty much every culture and religion in Glorantha practices some variety of spirit magic, except the most radically materialist or transcendent philosophies.

On May 27, 2016 at 9:46 PM, styopa said:

Meh, it's asserted to be so, but works nothing like that in practice.

There is, as far as any of the rules ever in RQ history as far as I know, no "spirit" that gives a sword +5% to hit and +1 damage (Bladesharp).  Spirits can deaden sound (Silence)?  I have to use a spirit (Spirit Binding spirit magic spell) to bind a spirit?  That's rather recursive.  And by the logic that these are all being done (in a hand-wavy way) "by spirits", then I could cast a Spirit Screen around my pile of gold and make it undetectable by Detect Gold?   No such mechanic has ever been implied?

Spirit magic concerns communication with the spirits that reside in the natural energy currents of the world and involves the forceful alteration of the fabric of reality by temporary expenditure of one’s POW, expressed as Magic Points (MP). One concentrates on the focus, unlocks the spell in one's mind or spirit or however it is understood by you, and you temporarily alter the natural energy currents of the world. An animist might understand this as "the spirits aid my sword" while the materialists might understand this as "the natural energy flows briefly favor my sword" or whatever. Since the spiritual energy currents don't make Spirit Combat attacks, Spirit Screen would be totally useless for the purpose you described.
Spirit magic does not require a shaman to learn - most cults have ways to pass on spirit magic from one person to another. It is used in all Gloranthan cultures and religions. 

Spirit Magic in Glorantha is exactly what it says it is. It is a spell to get a spirit to create an effect. And pretty much every Gloranthan culture uses spirit magic. It is not the same thing as shamanism (which is a type of spirit specialist).

40 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, but to get 48% in previous experience by the occupation tables required that a player roll one of the warrior/soldier/noble/hunter backgrounds (less than 10% for most cultures, about 15% for barbarians) and get the maximum number of years in the profession (a 1/36 chance). Not exactly "always". Nor was a +12% manipulation bonus "common", let alone a 17 STR. Not in RQ3. In D&D it was, but not RQ3.  

 

All in all the example character given was the exception. Something like a 1/20000 chance. 

If you required rolling for everything yes - but  most players *picked* the occupation they wanted to play (which is allowed), and their age (if permitted by the gamemaster, which nearly everyone associated with the various house campaigns did). So in truth, if you wanted to have a combat character, most players could just choose a warrior occupation and probably their age as well.

14 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

In a Street Level game, I can see a single skill in that range, and perhaps one at 75%. This gives the nascent hero something of note to start off their careers. Everyone is good at something. All other skills though should be notably lower, with a couple of skills coming in at the 50-60% range. Or perhaps even lower if someone wants to start off as the orphan who has just had their village wiped out. 

SDLeary

Yes. That is more or less the range that I have seen people make with the new rules. One skill in the 80+% range (depending on whether they put the maximum personal interest points into their best occupational skill), one or two around 75%. Then three to five skills around 50-60%. As I wrote above:

[M]ore often what I see is characters picking one skill they want to be really good at, and then a cluster of 2 or 3 skills in the 65-79%range. Then a bigger cluster in the 55-65% range, with the rest being in the under 50%. So frex, a Lunar dart warrior character started with one skill at 92% (2H Spear), two skills at 77 (Dagger and Composite Bow), and a cluster of skills between 51 and 60 (Climb, Hide, Sneak, Scan) [note: previously I wrote 76, but actually none of these skills were above 60]. Her passions were quite strong with her loyalty to the Red Emperor being 85% and her Fear of Dragons being 80.

4 hours ago, Mankcam said:

It sometimes felt more like Mad Max more than The Iliad, and I really liked that. 

Max definitely has 90%+ in Drive even in the first film.

Always keep in mind a person with a 90% or even 120% skill is not a Hero. A Hero is someone who has bridged the mortal world and the Gods World through their deeds (pretty much always through heroquesting). And given the reality of magic in RuneQuest a character with a 75% combat skill but with 6+ Rune points with a war god (Babeester Gor, Humakt, Maran Gor, Orlanth, Storm Bull etc) is likely going to beat the character with 125% combat but only 3 Rune points (a starting character has 3 Rune points). 

5 minutes ago, Zit said:

How many high level skills (>75%) do the rule allow for starting characters  ?

I rarely see a character made with more than one skill above 80%. Two if from a nomadic culture (Ride gets high very easy for nomads, as it starts at 40% instead of 5%, and if you add 30% as a professional warrior, plus put the maximum number of personal points into it that gets you to 90%), but since Ride is primarily a limiting skill (your other abilities are limited by your Ride) it needs to be very high if you do everything while mounted.

But more often what I see is characters picking one skill they want to be really good at, and then a cluster of 2 or 3 skills in the 65-79%range. Then a bigger cluster in the 55-65% range, with the rest being in the under 50%. So frex, a Lunar dart warrior character started with one skill at 92% (2H Spear), two skills at 77 (Dagger and Composite Bow), and a cluster of skills between 51 and 77 (Climb, Hide, Sneak, Scan). Her passions were quite strong with her loyalty to the Red Emperor being 85% and her Fear of Dragons being 80.

22 minutes ago, skoll said:

If a new character can have her combat skill at 95%, is there room for improvement? How do you improve skills beyond 100%? What are the benefits of having your skill over 100%?

And when two characters with combat skills of 95% meet each other in battle, how will it play out? Does one need to roll a crit to win?

Once you are over 100% (and yes, you can improve beyond 100% although it is slower), you can split attacks (useful against multiple unskilled opponents) and you get a steadily improved chance of special and critical attacks.

And this is Glorantha - when two characters with combat skills of 95% meet each other in battle, the one with better magic usually wins.

As an aside on this, I don't believe that a 21 year old in Glorantha - or in any ancient setting - is a novice dirt crawler. Now my parents both grew up on farms, and I have a lot of farmer relatives, and believe me when I say that a 15 year old who grows up farming can be remarkably skilled at that. Same thing with young scribes. I think we project modern Western assumptions about youth onto ancient settings. And we consider our youth to be unskilled and largely useless (that being said, I have met soldiers who were only 19 or 20 years old who were amazingly skilled at what they do).

In the pre-modern world, we have more examples of people who were already "heroes" at a remarkably young age. Alexander was 22 years old (a starting RQ character) when he fought the Battle of the Granicus - do we really think he did not have a mastery of Battle, Orate, Ride, or Lance attack? Napoleon was 26 when he conquered Italy. Harald Hardrada was a noted warrior at 15 years old. And by age 18 was one of the most successful captains of the Varangian Guard, having fought all the way to the Euphrates. Edward the Black Prince was 16 when he commanded the vanguard of the English Army at Crecy. Now those are all extraordinary characters, but they are the sort of characters imagined in RQ.

Additionally, RQ2 was quite explicit that your adventurer was not the "ordinary, average Joe" - you were the stuff who might "become a Hero, to take one's place in the Hero Wars." And the rules stated it is Perfectly All Right to throw out any character whose characteristics were across the board average or even slightly above average.

I've always liked being able to start with characters who can be good at what they are supposed to do (even if what they are good at is useless in adventuring - something I love about Call of Cthulhu) and the new RuneQuest will reflect that.

9 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Really ?

I thought this rule was only for the quick creation system, and not the detailed one. So, barbarian warriors aged 20+ were very likely to have more than 75% in their weapon skills, thanks to their x4 multiplier...

You are correct. There was NO 75% cap in the Experience By Occupation rules. The cap was in the Quick Experience System.

Just now, jux said:

What ever you do, make sure those nipple do not end up in the book

Why not? And for what it is worth, that's a Mike Mignola piece he did for Chaosium many years ago.

6 hours ago, simonh said:

I don't think the godtime is some ancient era long ago in history at all. There is no 'Before Time' because it's a meaningless statement. In Glorantha the god time is happening right now. It always is and always was. That's what it means to be outside time. It means to be always there, always accessible at any time through the moments and cycles of the natural world in Glorantha. Yelm wasn't slain long ago in some ancient time, he's being slain right there every day and falls to the underworld every sunset. That immediacy and immanence is why hero questing is possible and why it can change the world.

Simon Hibbs

Simon is spot on correct. The God Time is eternal and always. The events of the God Time are occurring and reoccurring now, yesterday, and tomorrow. Think of it like Eliade's Eternal Return or the distinction in Egyptian mythology between neheh (the continuation of the cosmos in temporal terms and the perpetual passage of heavenly and earthly events that accumulate as history) and djet (the eternal basis of divine action and initiative that enabled the creation of the cosmos and the possibility of its continuation). 

Of course roleplaying games are art - just as storytelling is art, comedy is art, short stories are art, comic books are art, etc. Nearly everything we do that is creative and imaginative can (and probably should) be considered art. Clearly Zak S's parties are art (mine rarely have much planning beyond making sure there is booze and food - and thus lack the creativity and imagination, although some have certainly resulted in moments transformed into art by later storytelling).

But saying that roleplaying games are art simply acknowledges that they are valued (at least by us) moments of creativity and imagination.  
  

It has been that way in all the Chaosium editions. No reason to change that.

9 hours ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

Are Heler and/or Elmal considered husband-protectors anywhere?

I'm sure somewhere where Heler is more important (and worshiped independently), he is worshiped as one of Ernalda's many husbands. But his cult is not terribly important. Remember, for the most part Heler is worshiped as an accoutrement of Orlanth.

Elmal is just treated as another variant of Yelm or Yelmalio by most Ernalda temples. Which is kind of right.

Here's the most common list (God Learnerized):

The Husband-Protectors

Wherever Ernalda is found, her local husbands give her a Rune spell as protection. Orlanth is always one of Ernalda’s husbands, but in many places he shares that honor with one or more of the following deities. In Esrolia, all the following husband-deities are present; Ernalda’s priestesses there gain Rune spells from all.

Orlanth: Orlanth is universally worshiped as Ernalda’s husband, even among people who do not worship Orlanth. 

Argan Argar: Argan Argar is only worshiped as Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and among the rare Darkness-worshiping cultures that respect the Earth deities.

Flamal: Flamal is worshiped as Ernalda’s husband primarily among the elves. 

Magasta: Magasta is Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and in some island cultures. 

Storm Bull: The Storm Bull is worshiped as Ernalda’s husband in Esrolia and by the rare Ernalda worshipers of the Wastes. 

Yelmalio: A minority of the tribes in Dragon Pass and the south Pelorian hills worships Yelmalio as one of Ernalda's husbands.

She's got others as well. In Saird, she is known to count Lodril AND Yelm among her husbands - along with Orlanth.

3 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Do you mean the new RuneQuest is going to have skill base values and skill bonus like in RQ3 ?

Both RQ2 and RQ2 have skill base values and characteristic modifiers for skills classes. The new RQ uses something more like RQ3 than RQ2 (since RQ2 only did characteristic modifiers in 5% increments).

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

The God Learners would say Plant, Harmony, Plant. The cult in Sartar for HQG purposes uses magic based on Plant and Harmony.

Shoot, I typed too fast - Plant, INFINITY, Plant. Don't let me type on four hours sleep.

The God Learners would say Plant, Harmony, Plant. The cult in Sartar for HQG purposes uses magic based on Plant and Harmony.

3 hours ago, TRose said:

•  If an Air worshipper can call on the power to help his sword skill , I take other worshippers can do the same, a Darkness worshipper call upon his Rune to help his mace skill etc

Yep. And that is explicitly called out in the rules. It makes having a strong connection to one rune or another pertinent and playable.

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

"Both Runes and Passions allow the character to be inspired within certain limitations. For example, the Air Rune is the rune of violence and destruction. A character in the midst of a melee combat may try to call upon the primal powers of Air to get a bonus to their sword skill. A character strongly loyal to their temple may try to inspire themselves when carrying out a cult mission. In playtesting, people have strongly role-played their Runes and passions and have a game incentive to do so. "
 

Does that mean that you will no longer need to learn Battle/Spirit/Common magic spells ?

Most characters will want to have some spirit magic - they are less powerful than Rune spells, but don't require you to have any particular affinity to anything to cast (just the POW and magic points needed). They also replenish MUCH faster than Rune points - you get your magic points back each day, but you need to participate in a Worship ceremony to replenish Rune points. The more significant the Worship ceremony, the more you get back. Priests, god-talkers, and rune lords get Rune Points back much faster than mere initiates.

48 minutes ago, TrippyHippy said:

I think that has always been the implication hasn't it? 

The magic referred to in the Guide to Glorantha highlights Spirit Magic (or Animism) , Runic (or Divine) Magic, Sorcery and Mysticism (or Illumination). The set up of HeroQuest uses Runes to define personality as well as ability and we've seen the designer notes of RQ going that same way. 

The Battle Magic of old looks like it will be an application of broader Runes associated with each character. 

 

 

 

Nope - the use of the Runes to augment actions is to correspond with a character's inherent affinities with the cosmic Runes. They do not form an independent magic system - but part of the "physics" of the setting. Rune Magic takes this a step further - by giving part of yourself to one of the Gloranthan gods (sacrifice of permanent POW for Rune Points) you call call upon some fraction of the god's power (aka Rune spells). Rune spells have a much greater mechanical effect than a successful Rune augment and have no downside when you fail to call upon the god (other than the spell not happening). Additionally Rune affinities *only* augment or act as personality drives - even if you have 100% with the Air Rune, you can't summon Air elementals or Fly without Rune magic. Rune magic is POW (as in you need to sacrifice permanent POW to create those Rune points) and Rune based.

The Battle Magic of old is Spirit Magic - the use of spirits to perform an effect through use of a foci or charm. Bladesharp, Heal, Second Sight - all are spirit magic spells.