M Helsdon

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

This was pretty much my line of thought. He, Zzabur likes to talk a big game and take a helluva lot of credit. I also figure the Brithini and Malkioni in general are going to be SUPER LITERAL, to the point of probably being no-fun-fuddy-duddies, can't go breaking caste and becoming all mortal and stuff. Blegh. 

The Brithini are going to be rational, logical, and in the case of sorcerers very egotistical, Zzabur most of all; as one of the Original Beings, he may embody the Magic Rune.

The Malkioni are far more... human, in part because in the Great Darkness those on the mainland had to break their caste laws; most who didn't (except those of Arolanit and a few scattered enclaves) did not survive to see the Dawn. 

The Brithini are not Malkioni, because Malkion himself broke his own Laws when he left the Tower of Intellect and entered gross matter in an attempt to save his people. Zzabur rejects him.

The Malkioni are now human, of numerous different cultures and beliefs, and even those like the Rokari who strive to return to the ways of the Brithini, are very different from their ancient ancestors. The Brithini view all the Malkioni on the mainland as erratic, short-lived deeply flawed creatures. Most Malkioni have fun, even those of the Rokari religion. [Have attempted to go into this in my most recent non-canonical Jonstown Compendium offering.]

Arcane Lore, whilst very interesting, has to be read with care, as it is collection of various concepts and ideas, many of which aren't part of Gloranthan canon.

Revealed Mythology is more useful.

Many events, before and during Time, have multiple causes: often potent magics by disparate groups, that either combine together or are 'coincidental' in generating major world-changing effects. Each group, of course, knows they were solely responsible, even if this isn't really true. So Zzabur certainly did do some significant acts, but many of the greatest he claims, were not his alone.

10 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Congratulations!

Any new projects on the horizon?

Nothing at present.

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Orlanthi don't really captain any seagoing ships. You cannot be an Orlanth worshipper and perform Dormal's magic, unless you are an illuminate without any respect for the cult you joined. Most of the Sea Gods bear a grudge against the Storm Tribe, and the merfolk have at  best mixed feelins for their Storm ancestors and the circumstances they "married" their ancestresses.

Well, the Yggites certainly sail and captain ships, and they worship Ygg, a Storm God, though apparently many later turn to Orlanth.

19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Esrolian houses have Pelaskite clients building their ships, opening the seas for them, etc.Their grain barges are fairly sizeable, but grain barges have to be in order to make at least a modicum of a profit.

Hmm, both the Prince of Sartar comic and HeroQuest Glorantha show Esrolian ships, both triremes and biremes, with Esrolian crews, though doubtless most of their oarsmen are Islanders, and they undoubtedly carry Dormal worshippers.

21 minutes ago, Joerg said:

River traffic is plenty different from sea traffic. Sailing a river is managing choke-hold after choke-hold.Would you call the Assyrians a naval culture? They certainly did use riverine trade.

Unlike smaller rivers, some of the rivers of Glorantha are enormous, virtually long narrow seas. If you have sailed on the lower Nile or a similar river, you get a very different impression to sailing on an ordinary river. As my cousin's in-laws said, when walking along a river in England 'that's not a river - it's a stream!' and if you have seen the Yamuna, a mere tributary of the Ganges, you will appreciate the difference. The Oslir, the Janube, the Lower Tanier are very wide, for much of their flow, a mile or two wide, no choke-holds, and sailed by vessels not similar to sea craft, including penteconters.

The Tigris has always been more demanding than the Euphrates for river traffic, but there was considerable traffic even in Assyrian times, and of course, the Assyrians claimed to have conquered Cyprus, using Phoenician ships. However, even the Euphrates isn't the Janube...

32 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The sailing culture of the Umathelans is the Malkioni component, mostly. The Orlanthi may serve as marines, but they are unlikely to do the shiphandling in any leading role.

I wouldn't be so sure...

33 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Saxons - and the Old Norse after them - created their kingdoms from ships' crews. The first Orlanthi leader to do so appears to be Argrath.

I'm sorry - I don't understand what you are saying here.

34 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The only Theyalan culture to which ships are as intrinsic as they were to the Minoans or the Myceneans are the Pelaskites, named Diroti in earlier works, after Diros, the (human) inventor of boats.

Hmm, the Esrolians seem to be very much into the sea trade, including warships and merchant vessels. Based on the sources, they also supply officers and marines.

I suspect you are underestimating the cultural impact of the great rivers, especially in Peloria, Fronela, Ralios, and Seshnela.

I suspect that the problem arises from your narrow interpretation of The Orlanthi are <take any naval raiding culture engaging in cattle herding and non-irrigation farming> without ships. Mycenean, Sea People, Saxon, Viking, Slav, Baltic, Barbary Corsair, Kilikians, Scoti, Veneti... Whilst there are elements of these cultures in the subset of Orlanthi cultures found in Dragon Pass, it excludes others, such as the Thracians, Dacians, Hittites (though they also claimed to have ruled at least part of Cyprus - without a sea-going tradition), the Celtiberians, etc. No Gloranthan culture maps exactly onto any terrestrial culture.

In the non-canonical JC 'Men of the West' mention is made of how the Mammoth War Society of Seshnela treasures the ivory relics of its Martial Beast, and how it has to procure mammoth hides and tusks from merchants...

Just been sketching Gloranthan graffiti, and mentioned to the recipient that I'd used a pad and ink, and was asked what application Ink is... I suddenly feel very old, but then I draw using tech that isn't that different to that used by an Ancient Egyptian scribe.

Well, it's now Copper on DriveThruRPG.

Am a little surprised as the West is probably a niche of a niche.

Not certain there will be another in this series, as for other regions my available information is basically the Guide and perhaps one or two of the Stafford Library books, so less easy to work in, without copying. In comparison, the center of Genertela had masses of sources, and the West, whilst less developed, isn't short of 'seed' material. Other regions,  for my purposes, far less so.

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Orlanthi are <take any naval raiding culture engaging in cattle herding and non-irrigation farming> without ships.

Well, the Esrolians are Orlanthi: they have ships, some of the largest humans have before the Waertagi come back.

Some of the Janube valley Orlanthi probably have ships.

The Orlanthi of southern Peloria have ships, on the Oslir.

The Orlanthi of Ralios have ships on the Upper Tanier.

The Umathelans have ships.

Some of those use ships for trading, war, and probably raiding.

I wonder if the usage came in when the term Theyalans started to be used, which in-world is a God Learner term, and it wouldn't be used by 'those who worship the Pantheon of Orlanth and the Lightbringers' because they don't seem to worship Theya themselves?

2 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Sorry, I should have been more specific. The information about the Yelmalions and that they, 'lord over enslaved and magically crippled descendants of the Kitori as mercenaries'.

Wyrms Footnotes 15 is perhaps the best source.

https://www.chaosium.com/wyrms-footnotes-15-pdf/

21 hours ago, Dissolv said:

Sweet!  Purchased.  I've been eyeing the Gripping Beast Late Roman Cataphracts as a possible chain mail free option for the men of the west.  When I've got a chance to read through it carefully I'll try to figure out what may or may not best for the figures!

There are a number of makes of potentially useful figures.

Personally, I see Parthian and Sassanid cataphracts as a reasonably close fit, and there are a number of manufacturers. Sarmatians, Bactrians, as well.

On 8/23/2020 at 7:21 PM, g33k said:

Isn't the Brown Book of Zzabur the canonical title ?

 

Zzabur wrote the Blue, Red, and Brown Books, among others.

1 hour ago, Caras said:

How does Windstop affect the areas on the edges? In Eleven Lights it says that it is like a hurricane, but I haven´t seen that description of it in anywhere else, so is it "canonical"? Are areas on the edges destroyed with constant thunderstorm?

I don't believe there were constant thunderstorms, just constant battering winds that just stop at the interface, as the currents of air will converge and get compressed together, so wind speeds will increase the closer you get to the boundary. Gloranthan physics isn't the same as terrestrial physics, but thunderstorms need warm air to rise and cool, and that isn't what is happening, though it might in places as cold and warm air mixes; instead the winds aren't rising up, they just vanish.

12 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Doesn't mean they aren't super super useful  

Congrats on the new release! It's going into my next batch DTRPG purchase.

Thank you.

1 hour ago, Minlister said:

I confess I was never really interested in the West, but this book could convert me! Of course the art is splendid (the Pralori mercenary, p. 139 may be my favourite!) but the text is also a gold mine of information! Let's hope future canon books will build on this one!

Before I started, I was a little cool on the West, but the further you dig the more interesting it becomes.

Be warned that whilst it is based on canon, some old (some very old) material was used, though that is often flagged in some way, and the rest was... made up.

15 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Congratulations on writing the #1 bestseller on DriveThruRPG!

Thank you. I am very surprised.

30 minutes ago, pachristian said:

Saw it. Bought it. Reading now. Thank you for producing these books, they're a priceless resource.

They aren't canonical...

1 hour ago, Minlister said:

Congratulations!! And many thanks for the beautiful work!

Thank you.

Now up for sale.

Men of the West

The timeless appeal of the legends of the Hero Wars has resulted in an enduring interest in the period.

Surviving texts, supplemented by archaeological evidence, are used here as the basis of this reconstruction of the combatants of the initial phases of that world-shattering conflict.

This volume is a companion to The Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass.

Many mercenaries and adventurers from the West have been drawn to the conflict in Dragon Pass. Their homelands of Seshnela, Fronela, and Ralios are also fighting their own Hero Wars.

Seshnela strives to impose the ambition of One God, One King, One Empire on the divided city-states and kingdoms of Ralios, where many look to the long-prophesied return of the hero Arkat for their salvation. In Fronela the idealists of Loskalm must confront the bloodthirsty armies of the Kingdom of War raging across the land bringing destruction and death. And there are yet more threats and perils.

This book presents details of the warriors, soldiers and mercenaries fighting during opening periods of the Hero Wars, their arms and armor, their ships, their cultures, histories and organization, terrain, the battlefields on which they fought, their fortifications, their magic, and their religions.

Army Lists provide details of some of the regiments which fought in these epic conflicts, supplemented by numerous illustrations of the participants.

Warning: adult themes - some aspects of Bronze Age warfare may be distressing. There is also a description of Gloranthan sorcery.

 Note: The Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass provides details of arms and armor, formations and many other things useful to the reader.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/325525/Men-of-the-West?src=newest_community

Am going to put in an order for preview hardcopies in an hour or so. And ordered.

With the index, it works out at 182 pages plus covers.

Tomorrow I will create the PDF for DriveThruRPG.

Star Trek, the Original Series, was an extended Malkioni heroquest, led by the Talar Kirk, wearing gold, his zzaburi wizard Spock, wearing blue, and numerous red-shirted horali...

On 8/18/2020 at 8:37 PM, Eff said:

"Tar-" as a prefix seems to indicate some kind of transcendent entity- "Tarumath" (Tar-umath) in First Age Dorastor/Talastar, "Taraltara" in Third Age Peloria, "TarnGatHa" (Tar[n]-Gat[h]a?) in at least Second and Third Age Kralorela. Presumably, no relation to the "Tar" sound in Tarsh, Tarkalor, Taraling, Tarinwood. 

Tar seems to mean high, so Tarumath is 'High Storm'; Tarsh probably means the 'Heights'. Tars elsewhere, such as Seshnela seem to come from another language family, probably Pralori.

Just starting the third pass of proofreading.

14 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

More than twenty years ago I had some fun deliberately using “Esrolite” for Esrolian, and experimented with using -im for their plurals (so you’d have Esrolite Humaktim and Orlanthim, among others). It was a neat thought experiment, and brought some different associations into play, but I’m not sure I learned that much from it. Just sharing because this seems as good a place as any.

Well, Esrolia is almost an anagram of Israel, just an extra 'o'.

Initial mock-up of front cover. Font isn't the one I will use. This is very plain compared with other JC publications.

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

In that case, En or Ene might actually be "son of". Or servant of.

Yes, that was my thought.

25 minutes ago, Joerg said:

 I disagree about your "egi", as IMO it is just simply the suffix "-i" (indicating "people of ...") applied to another suffix "-eg" applied to the stem of a land goddess name.

There are also the egi who contribute to the persona of the Red Emperor.

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

-i 
Either denoting a plural demonym, a derivate from a name, an adjective and more ("Orlanthi" being all of these) 

-ia
Also seems to be a toponym. Granted, this exists IRL as well, but I'm going to guess it's an in-universe derivative, and not just RW Greek/Latin. 

I'm afraid that I suspect that -i, -ia and also -ling are terrestrial translations of a Gloranthan term.