Tindalos

Minlister is nandani gendered, along with some of their cultists, given how brewing has typically been seen as feminine work. 

34 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I seem to recall that Rokari Talars fight, just not with swords (they use maces and "crowns" aka chakrams apparently, to get around certain rules). No idea whether this also applies to Aeolians. 

That's how Brithini Talars in Arolanit defend themselves (Guide to Glorantha page 408), well, at least the more liberal ones. 

The Rokari seem even more liberal, with kings and princes having swords (ibid, page 412 mentions them) and while the weapons of the "heavily-armed cataphracts" raised from the Talars (ibid, page 407) aren't explicitly described, lances don't seem out of the realm of probability. 

Well, it's been a year, and now there's a second collection of clan questionnaires been produced by us, and available at the Jonstown Compendium.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/363702/Alakorings-Legacy

This one covers the Orlanthi of Tarsh and Aggar in greater detail, as well as the Tusk Riders.

16 hours ago, Leingod said:

Now for another question I'd like to pose for those more well-versed in Pelorian history than I am (not a difficult feat, admittedly): Does anyone recognize this symbol on Relandar's (at right) chest? That might shed some light on who exactly Relandar is, from a Pelorian/Dara Happan perspective, because when I think about it he's pretty odd.

Well, I've seen it elsewhere, but it only makes things more confusing.

That same chestplate is worn by the Golden Men, in the rituals of Nyalda Marriage Maker and Elmal Path Guardian. Golden Men can also be found in the lands of the Forosilvuli, and gift you because solar people need to stick together.

In the ritual of Nyalda Marriage Maker, you can gift them gold, and they'll use it to make more Golden Men.

It's possible they're actually Gold Wheel Dancers, who lived in the mountains south of the Forosilvuli, and had a connection to golden coins (with some saying that the Wheel coins were originally their remains I believe?) and one was brought back through worship of gold.

This doesn't necessarily help us locate Relandar, but due to a connection in iconography there could be a connection to Lokarnos.

Like the Gold Wheel Dancers, he is associated with gold and wheels. But he is also the Counting God (Glorantha Sourcebook page 103), and was once known as the Timekeeper (Guide page 647) for helping people tell the time in the Grey Age.

It could be possible that Relandar may have had some connection to Lokarnos that has been lost, when his transportation and trade aspects became more valuable than his records and social engineering.

4 hours ago, AlHazred said:

Ah well. I liked that supplement.

Same, and there's no reason not to use it.

Just have to figure out a way that works for your campaign.

Let's start with Oshjalaba. They're unlikely to be the Stream itself, as the Stream is usually depicted as Engizi's brother.

What could be fun is some maps (Such as Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes 283, or the Land of Thunder map) show a tributary of Kjartan's Lake which acts as a border between the Balmyr and the Quivini mountains. This doesn't exist on other maps, so you could have it be Oshjalaba's Stream, forgotten due to the general powers of forgetfulness in the area. Oshjalaba's a neriad, daughter of the Stream and yet friendly with sorcerers due to kinship with Malkion. She acts as the Chapter's wyter, through a deal with the leader of the sorcerers.

The White Chapel of Purity's write up mentions it was originally founded in the Dawn Age by a group of Malvonian adepts. Malvonians are described here, and are sorcerers who have the power to repel Erasanchula and the like, giving examples of their spells. Given the healing focus of the band, it's likely that their particular spells dealt with *disease* spirits, with spells like Remain Untouched by Disease and Dispel Disease Spirit. This also gives them a useful role, because of different way their magic work, they're effectively an unexpected threat for disease.

Their strict rules include avoiding blood (which results in their pacifism), vegetarianism, and celibacy, trying to maintain purity through this. It also means that those who do stumble across them may mistake them for Chalana Arroyists at first.

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

After all, what does the Lunar Empire have to fear by betraying a pack of Wolf Pirates and their chief, a wood barbarian called Harrek the Berserk.

I imagine there may have been a bit of an interesting conversation when someone realised they'd betrayed the guy who killed the previous Mask.

On 6/5/2021 at 6:42 AM, Nevermet said:

• I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Atrox may qualify as an ascended master, though nobody in the Third Age follows his teachings save for Ethilrist's Black Horse Troop.

If you do still want to use Atrox and his school, a better place for him than Black Horse County would be Seshnela itself.

Given his book was a strict text, which was later superseded by the Abiding Book, but probably has a lot more in common with the Sharp version. It's association with the order of black iron echoes the school of Iron Blood in Segurane, and while the guide notes other Malkioni schools are subject to varying degrees of repression, a fellow school of wizard ascetics would fit in nicely.

What we have as his details even works nicely: An early follower of Malkion, who saw his betrayal and death by rebellious gods, and wrote down what he saw.  While his followers agree with the Rokari that one needs to obey your caste laws to achieve Solace, the Atroxics further hold that mortification of spirit and flesh is needed. They probably don't get on well with nobility, but you might find a sorcerer who follows those harsh laws trying to instruct some peasants somewhere. You could even connect it to the World of Losers movement found in Ralios, with Atrox being the first Hideous Saint.

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

Because that's not what Saints and Masters are all about.  They become saints due to important philosophical discoveries, not petty mundane concerns.  Think the Theory of Gravity or the Discovery of Phosphorous.  People in charge of crafts and trade would be Heroes rather than Saints.

So it's more likely for there to be an Ascended Master of Economics and Governance, who wrote a great grimoire similar to the Arthashastra?

5 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Backward spelling:

Don't forget Subere.

On 5/5/2021 at 5:19 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

Well, if you wish to change the meaning of the English word, sure.

The question of "what is a god" is probably worthy of it's own thread, but the most reasonable one I can figure out in terms of Gloranthan monotheism and atheism is "a being who is worthy of worship."

Malkioni get to be monotheists because although they recognise the various supernatural entities that embody natural forces are powerful, they do not think them worthy of worship, and only the Invisible God is worthy of that. Even if they've adopted "god" as a loanword or whatever, to them those beings are just doing their jobs, so why should they be worshipped for it?

The Brithini are atheists because they take this further, and view the Invisible God and say "Yes, it created the universe, but that is its nature, it is an impartial force, and we may respect the Prime Mover, but it is not worthy of worship."

References:

21 minutes ago, Joerg said:

But then, I have a slight conceptual problem with the talar caste of Seshnela practicing ancestor worship and the Rokari doctrine of complete dissolution in the state of Solace. Manifesting dead ancestors shoudl be impossible under that doctrine, shouldn't it?

I get the feeling that the Rokari vision of Seshnegi society is still a "work in progress." They're still having problems of what to do with the lower and middle classes (Guide to Glorantha page 413), who they've been unable to exactly turn into proper castes (the wealthier townsfolk of the trader and crafter subcastes mentioned on page 51 are probably an example of the middle class, and likely look down on lower class workers combined into the Worker Caste)

It wouldn't surprise me if the Rokari Watcher's response would be "yes it's bad, but at the moment we're still rooting out major heresies and convincing showing everyone we've got the Right version of Malkionism. Just look the other way until we've got everything else sorted out, and then we'll get to work on restoring the Talars to their proper place and ending their corruptive ancestor worship." (But in private of course)

3 hours ago, Thoror said:

But that wasn't the main revelation, no sir. That just happened, when I saw this gem in the Rough Guide to Glamour's drivethrurpg page: "I'd say the Guide to Glamour is about 95% how I [Jeff Richard] view it. And as all RQ players know, a roll of 96-00 is always a failure. As opposed to something like the Imperial Lunar Handbook books [for HeroQuest] which were closer to 25%. And as all RQ players know, don't go into combat with a 25% skill."

On the other hand, out of 100%, that would put the ILH into a special success range.

😉

35 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Also Voria's father is not explicitly given, I think? So it could conveniently be Orlanth as with Voriof, but also whoever else fits at any given time.

The family tree in the Glorantha Sourcebook (page 107) has them both as the children of Orlanth and Ernalda together, which supports you.

I think it would make a great deal of sense for them to be twins.

32 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Yeah which is why I think there's some confusion between being *actually* a noble, and being someone with a *noble standard of living* or belonging to a *noble family*.

I'm just trying to understand all this so I might very well be wrong, but based on what Jeff wrote, the "lowest level of nobility is clan chieftain", so for instance Harmast is clearly not a noble, but he has noble standard of living, ransom, etc. Most of the time, I suppose you get a noble standard of living by virtue of belonging to a noble's household (Harmast's case), but I suppose you can also achieve it by just being a wealthy merchant or crafter or whatever.

It's the problem of one term doing double duty (or triple, etc.)

The three "noble" occupations of RQG (Noble, Priest, and Scribe) appear to actually be part of the "Free Wealthy" social class.

Harmast is in an interesting position as his father is a true noble, while Harmast isn't even a part of the "petty nobility" that the Free Wealthy represent, but just a regular farmer.

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

We, terrian, talk about sorcery, spirit magic, etc... but what could say a gloranthan (for my business, it is for esrolian / sartarite people) .

For example, I doubt to hear this sentence in Nochet temple "I would like you to teach my 8 years old nephew sorcery. He is smart, curious,and seems very (too much) open-minded " Or maybe yes, it is "sorcery" for them too ?

 

You might hear something like "My nephew has no talent for field work, but has a steady hand and keen eye. I ask that you teach him as a scribe, so that he can prove his worth. It is my hope that when he is a man, he will prove himself able to use the Knowing God's wisdom and the magic of books."

Sorcery is probably a term the Orlanthi would view with suspicion, as it suggests magic without the gods. While Lhankor Mhy's magic is just his blessings, showing people how to use the old magic of the world, and his scribes and sages are sure to remember the gods in what they do.

Learning a spirit spell might involve going to your local temple and asking "I wish to make my sword as sharp as Orlanth's, I will give the temple five good cows for the priests." And after making the arrangements for the transfer of cattle to the temple's herds, the priests take you into the sanctuary, conjure up one of Orlanth's spirit winds and create a link with you using a focus. You learn the Bladesharp spell, and now have the focus for casting it.

39 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

there's always the Sumerian gur, which was the amount of a given substance that could be safely loaded onto a donkey's back

Ah, I think I've seen the measuring device for that!

9 hours ago, Leingod said:

Of course, whether and where exactly she survives in the Third Age I couldn't tell you. Plentonius identified her with a figure on the fourth row of the Gods Wall (which represent the "Gods of Below" whose worshiped is proscribed), which indicates she wasn't really looked on kindly by the Dara Happans after the Jenarong Dynasty (much like a lot of nomad stuff), but there may be some memory of her left somewhere.

Arandayla, the horse goddess worshipped by the Grazelanders; and Hippoi, the horse goddess of Pent, are probably the same.

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

I'm not seeing the God Forgot origin of his clothing (the Guide mentions an Orlanthi torc for example_ and think it unlikely considering the Only Old One would identified him if he was from God Forgot, whereas we know that the Only Old One couldn't.  Moreover Carvak Zirian dresses quite differently than Belintar and he's a Zzaburi from God Forgot.

Which is interesting as the representative of God Forgot in the guide is clearly wearing a similar torc, and is in their traditional costume.

I agree he's certainly not in Zzaburi clothing, even if his skin would be right, but if the turban, the jewel in the forehead, the earrings, and it looks like the himation as well are traditional God Forgot clothing, then they're probably what the Talar wears -- suitable for the God-King.

3 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

No more information than we had previously, though.  Origin unknown.

The depiction in the guide (page 238) and in Prince of Sartar (pages 44-45, referred to as his original body) has the appearance of someone from God Forgot, and dressed in their clothing. In the comic, he's even blue, suggesting he may be a Zzaburi!

11 hours ago, metcalph said:

Of the listed countries, Seshnela is the most surprising.

Given the mention in the guide that nobles engage in "a brutal blend of boxing and wrestling." (page 52) It's probably similar to pankration or mixed martial arts.

I could also still see the warrior societies, "halfwitted hsunchen" and all, having martial arts based on their Martial Beast. Lion warriors focusing on fierce punches like the blows of a lion's paw; Snake warriors relying on either swift strikes or grappling holds. Of course in war, that's the time for weapons and armour, but in peace they still have to keep up their training.

3 minutes ago, David Scott said:

That is a visible planet in the sky.

I mean, all things aside, so's the Red Moon?

15 minutes ago, Beorne said:

I often asked myself a thing that like most other in Gloranta, is for me very fascinating and confusing.
What is the connection (that seems very "dynamic" depending the time) betweek the poor Elmal loyal thane horse's and Yelmalio.
Now they seem to be the same thing and the cult of Elmal has almost disappeared as "Elmal" and survivies only under Yelmalio. But I am among these who discovered Glorantha through KoDP, and betweeen early sartarites it appeared to be an important deity. I wondered very much to discovered it was wiped away.
Now I see that the KoDP repreentation is considered a little "out of canon" ... where is the truth? (I understand that is a totally absurd question ... )

Thanks

It's more of a subject for another thread, but it comes down to the changing nature of canon, depending on the books you use, and the era they're from, you'll get very different answers.

On a similar line to Blood of Zeus, there's the recent animated series Onyx Equinox.

Shown on an anime streaming service of all things, it's set in Mesoamerica, with characters from different cultures (Mexica, Mayan, Zapotec, Totonac)

The combination of the supernatural being an acknowledged part of the world, deities as an important part of the story, and who need sacrifice, the quest to save humanity from destruction, and just the look into many different cultures with their art and design, makes this a potential source of Gloranthan inspiration.

13 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

Antiquated? How so? 🤔

The more than a millennium of development. Even the cult of Yelm has changed massively, as detailed in the Fortunate Succession. Current Dara Happan thought holds that Yelm became more remote than he was in Khordavu's day as well. (GtG 725) So it's understandable how the culture would have changed alongside the cult.

7 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Sun was silent, and nobody knew how to directly contact it - until the Dara Happans did circa 220. And the magic they gained proved their point. 

But Lightfore is easier to contact than the Sun. And in much of the world, the Sun Disk is just that - a disk that provides light and heat (Ehilm), but humans contact Lightfore for magic and aid.

But the Dara Happans PROVED Elmal is not the sun - Elmal was present before the Dawn, the Sun appeared with the Dawn, the Sun is different from Lightfore, therefore Elmal is not the Sun, QED.

Ah, so the Dara Happans now view things as having Yelm be silent from Gerruskoger's reign to Khordavu's reign, and not that he only returned then? And the Kargzant Gerruskoger elevates actually Yu-Kargzant without him knowing?

That makes sense.

19 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Moving on...

Works for me.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Jeff sullied Branduin's reputation by making him Killer Branduin.

I don't know, when your tribe has a strong connection to Humakt, wouldn't "killer" be a positive nickname?

Just now, Nick Brooke said:

I see we have a Many Suns recidivist, here.

In the Great Darkness, Lightfore was the Sun.

But not the sun, as noted in the link, as the Dara Happans proved that (despite not recognising it for 220 years). Lightfore may have been the light in the darkness, but it's a planet.