Nevermet

8 hours ago, David Scott said:

When Greg was developing stuff he often drew the runes out of what he was working on. By runes, I don't mean the Thirty Core Runes, I mean the ones that connected with the mythology he was working on (i'd call them god runes). Many these went on to become Hero Wars era runes, or were never seen in publication. He often drew the rune as the head a stick figure you can see this the early Gods Wall drawings in GroY (IV-24). Although Bijiif is a pile of dust with a single glowing speck, I would imagine that this single speck is actually his rune on the Gods Wall (which is huge) and can't be seen in the Guide or GroY.  

This God Rune would be a Combination Rune, like the Communication (Issaries) rune is a combination of Mobility and Harmony. God runes are only used in iconography or specialist applications.

 

I really love the God Runes, btw

1 hour ago, Minion1stClass said:

Sounds like a fun time for all. Except the poor ogre who didn't do nothing to nobody. Well, SOME bodies. But not that one in particular.  

The PCs didn't know them, so it's ok 🤗

Tomorrow night is my second session of my online HQG game, Caravan Calamity.

Last session, the PCs discovered the body of their Caravan boss, started collecting evidence at the scene, and also became worried about the social-political consequences of the boss dying.

As all three players are new to Glorantha and Heroquest, I am slowly bringing them up to speed.  Setting-wise, they are aware they are on a caravan, and they know Elves are humanoid trees.  This session they'll be introduced to Chaos, or at least the threat of Chaos, as someone will be starting a panic that there is an Ogre on the caravan!  The ACTUAL Ogre on the caravan is rather upset at this rumour, as he's far too smart to kill the head of the caravan in the middle of nowhere.... that's just stupid.

In terms of rules, I'm introducing extended contests and using Hero Points. 

Core things I know:

• I know who actually killed the caravan boss: a Trader Princess on the caravan, who is trying to taker over his freelance spy network.
• I know this was witnessed by a scholar from Solung who is on the caravan.  The murderer is currently unaware of this, but if the players are sloppy they may inform her.
• I know which NPCs care, don't care, and are happy the caravan boss (who had a penchant for blackmail) is dead.

I'm planning on re-reading the rules on long-term benefits to make sure I know how that works, so there is a mechanic to help them put the pieces together if they don't themselves.

So... yeah.  Wish me luck.  I'll be back over the weekend to let yo uknow how it went.

This thread is fully outside the realm of what I can talk intelligently about, but I am following.

26 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

There's a quote by Cristopher Tolkien on J.R.R. Tolkien's works (I'm paraphrasing as best I can): "There are my father's published thoughts, his latest thoughts and his best thoughts on his works. These are not always the same." I'm guessing the same goes for Greg.

Looks like I'm going to be doing a close reading of the Entekosaid.  Again.

Wimper

1 hour ago, Nevermet said:

I'm too busy being fascinated to be upset how much that upends some things I concluded.

To elaborate, up until this thread, I had been of the opinion that Ganestarus was a darkened aspect of Lodril / Turos.  (I can argue this relatively well given the Entekosaid... I thought)

I'm now rethinkng a lot.

11 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I suspect quite a lot of sorcery - and at least definitely mysticism is like this - running around like an idiot and throwing fireballs and leaping magically is what an irresponsible madman does with his access to the Infinite. A TRUE magician works with a grander perspective (or in the case of some mysticism, an incredibly narrow perspective, to avoid entanglement).

And I can sympathize with that perspective to an extent, as it does seem almost petty to understand and know the infinite and essential forces of the universe to cast 3rd level Magic-User spells.

2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

A tidbit from Greg's Lunar Secrets (dated 1995):

Subera. The Perceptible Goddess. The Mother of Matter.  The Devourer.  She is Fuel.  Aka: Ganesatarus, Pelandan GanEstoro.

Well, that blows my mind, especially given that the Entekosaid came out in 1996, so it would be reasonable to assume his thinking didn't change THAT dramatically between the two.

I'm too busy being fascinated to be upset how much that upends some things I concluded.

1 minute ago, Eff said:

And of course another way to look at it is in instrumental/pragmatic terms (which is very historically appropriate for how traditional religions function/functioned). You can offer up "conclusive" proof, by taking down a couple Western scrolls and some Plentonius and so on and so forth, and laying out an impenetrable logical argument that Orlanth is necessarily an avatar of Sedenya. But until you can bring the storm with moon magic, the real storm, not the still and placid breezes of Entekos-Molanni, who's going to care except the scribes? (And of course, if/when you do bring your Moonstorm, that will definitely prompt a rather shocking, gusty rebuttal...)

I suddenly feel like a lot of Carmanian and Western magic feels like magic at the beginning of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, where Serious Magic (tm) is a theoretical exercise, and actually using magic is looked down upon by a certain type of haughty Vizier.  ....Of course, that all changes as the Lunar Empire begins to have "issues", Charg appears, and Carmania decides to save the Arrolian Properties.

My God.... I kinda wanna run this now.  Help.

4 minutes ago, Eff said:

Well, in a certain sense, proving that a god is another god is as simple as pie. Just show that God 1 teaches secrets that only God 2 knows, that the rites of God 2 are revelatory for God 1. Of course, in another sense, if you want to make a pie from scratch, you must first create the universe...

 

Which is probably the best way to understand the Entekosiad- Valare Addi had a pie she wished to create: "Where did I go wrong when I said the Red Goddess was Dendara?" In order to make that pie, she ended up having to go back to the beginning of the universe. 

Agreed.

The more I think about what is "proven" regarding the mythological structure of Glorantha, the more a phrase from philosopher John Dewey comes to mind: less truth or proof and more "Warranted Assertability."  Have I done things that seem to give me permission to make a claim (aka "Does it Work?").

My next paycheck is Friday.

I will be buying this Friday.

15 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Depends on the rules set, I suppose. I would have said Darkness and Mastery but in RQG, it might to be Darkness, Death and Illusion? (to pose Idovanus as the God of Truth). 

I guess I could just as easily ask what runes are associated with Idovanus and play the antonym game.

Idovanus   /  Ganestoro

Law / Disorder (possibly Chaos)

Truth / Illusion

Light or Fire / Darkness (this would work well for the versions of Idovanus that get equated with Yelm.

Also, I just started 2 threads, and I want to make something clear: Currently, IMG, I do not believe Bijiif is Ganestoro.  (I have completely different heretical understandings of Ganestoro 😎 )

Also, I just started 2 threads, and I want to make something clear: Currently, IMG, Bijiif is not Ganestoro.

Does Bijiif, the portion of Yelm smeared with ash that sat and waited in the underworld, have an association with the fire rune?  

Pretty much what it says on the tin: what runes are associated with Estoro / Ganestoro / Ganesatarus? 

Even more specifically, are there any canonical statements about this?  I could imagine cases to be made for darkness, death, disorder, illusion, chaos... 

17 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

To clarify: the "if you don't like it" after the "ignore its existence" was heavily implied.

The Guide already teases the Hero Wars disasters, but some Compendium stuff going indepth would be really cool, and probably hugely interesting for GMs with long-term plans.

I have had dreams of doing exactly that, and then I remember I have no clue how to write gaming stuff. 😅😶

And.... I'm kind of embarrassed to ask this, but does anyone else find the unrelenting cycles of destruction to be depressing?  I mean, to say that does not suggest it's low quality, but.... damn.

As I look at the map that got posted a while ago... it looks like Maniria somehow isn't flooded?  If that's the case, I'm guessing some big Heler goings on, combined with some cities going domed liked Erenplose.  And, of course, floating pigs.

Also... what will the Flood do to the White Sea?  Will the Sweet Sea rejoin the oceans?

11 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

It also doesn't help that Greg wrote (but only selectively shared) other Lunar documents that included his in-process thoughts of how some of this all gets synthesized into the Lunar religion.

The fact that they "proved" the Goddess is both Natha and Gerra is a neat trick for Pelandan religion.  I mean, I'm sure that there's much more than that, but that is a kinda mindfuck.

Also, given that, I'd imagine more than a few promoters of the Jernotian Way who had to be quickly removed from power as the region was lunarized.

EDIT: Also, i'm not entirely sure how "proving" God 1 = God 2 works, but I'd imagine some Spolites resisted the lunarization of Gerra (though not many, given they would have seen the Lunars as liberators against the Carmanians I suspect)

2 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'll argue that much like the Book of Heortling Mythology, it is not "only" interesting and engrossing as some kind of meta-commentary scholarly text, but also, to be frank, quite entertaining as a face-value collection of stories, with the added benefit that it's from cultures that are otherwise seen as mostly marginal.

Agreed 100%

59 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Getting a sense of continuity or something resembling a timeline (or the monomyth laid out in the God Learner Maps in the Guide) is extremely hard. There are stories that feel like a dystopian Green Age... 

I almost want to suggest the easiest way to read the Entekosaid is to only deal with the Entekosaid, accept that it is a series of myths (and a few snippets of history) from very different points in time, edited together by an unreliable narrator.  

I don't think I actually believe this, but I almost do

Also, why are you reading this?  What do you want to get out of it?

6 hours ago, David Scott said:

May I suggest structuring this along similar lines to the Guide to Glorantha read.

• Define the book needed (there are a few versions)
• Set a reading goal (a chapter, x number of pages, etc) over a set time (a few days)
• some rules (no referring to stuff not yet read, proper references to external publications (name, version, date)

I had actually been planing on doing at some point.

I will not suggest a reading group
I will not suggest a reading group
I will not suggest a reading group...

Heh, sounds like we should make a reading group!

Dammit!

5 hours ago, Videopete said:

So this requires some understanding of Dara Hapan culture, because this is wow, I haven't even gotten to the meat of this.

Yeah

For cross referencing outside the Entekosaid, I found it handy to have The Guide, the Fortunate Succession, and the Glorious Reascent.  

Last time I read it carefully, I was more interested in figuring out Spol than Carmania, or perhaps I would have also had Revealed Mythologies handy too.

But yeah, it's one of the least Godlearner-y texts there is.