jeffjerwin

10 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Brightface is interesting, as Brightface kills Protector Among Seven, sticks his head on a spear and places it above his hall. Was Protector Among Seven an earlier Sun God?

It represents the earlier function of the Naverian-Pelandan male kingship/sun god as guardian of the Earth and sacrificial/returning consort of the White Moon, I think. So yes?

19 hours ago, soltakss said:

Derak the Dark Troll, one of our RQ2 PCs, was an Illuminated Dark Troll, best friends with Cragspider and a right pain in the backside. As he was a Death lord with some unusual friends, the Lord General of Death called him in for a meeting and produced a Matrix of Sense Chaos and and a Matrix of Sense law and said he was going to test Derak and kill him if things went badly. He rolled for Sense Chaos - 100 and a fizzle, then rolled for Sense Law - 100 and a fizzle, as both Matrices were proven to be faulty, he decided that Derak had passed the test and made him Lord Inquisitor of Death, heading up investigations into suspected illuminates in Zorak Zoran. Needless to say, all his enemies were found to be Illuminated and none of his friends.

On a related point, one of the PCs always secretly wanted to be Illuminated, but could never make the roll, no matter what he did. After years and years of gaming, he succeeded and went to brag to the other PCs, only to find that every single one of them had been Illuminated for years.

ZZ in recent imagery is interestingly always three-eyed...

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

Obviously, but consider, they are most likely the progenitors of the first ogres, and ogres are everywhere, so how did Feldichi influence spread, how far did it spread, and when?  

It's hard to say, but the likeliest time frame for it was during the Greater Darkness, when food became scarcer. I'd note that Donandar and Skovara/i came into conflict with ogres during that period, and my supposition is that Dragon Pass was the scene of this - Skovara and Skovari being associated with the Ernalda cult and thus presumably in the area...

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

I am super- impressed with this series of posts everyone, it's a gem.  I am also very glad you revived it Jeff or I might not have had my attention drawn to it, so thanks.  

Having read over this once (it all deserves a re-read), I am thinking that the Ginijji Culture sounds suspiciously like a match for the Feldichi, based on the many pertinent observations about it.  Superficially, both are highly technical, earth worshiping, and ultimately fell or turned to chaos.  This in turn raises the question of whether there is a connection between the Feldichi and the Vadeli in this context.  I have yet to play 6 Ages:RLtW, but it is on my to do list for 2019.

Well, the Feldichi lived in Dorastor...

I'm on the side of 2. in Jeff's discussion.

There is a fourth possibility: Only devotees (RP/RLs) are potentially privy to the 'unity of the Little Sun' and the wider cultural distinctions are more important to the laity or even possibly the initiates. This might include such stuff as 'secret names'.

The main distinction between Glorantha and our world here is that in the former the priests can actually ask their god. Only a really vague answer or a really fouled up divination is likely to deceive in a profound way...

Fortunately, I'm not planning on running a game centred on the Far Point, where this sort of question changes from academic to somewhat important.

I have a question. What was the name (or names) used for the Little Sun at Goldedge and in Tarsh before the 1490s? This would logically be the same name used in Alda-chur, of course.

Just reviving this thread to suggest, after re-reading various sources and examining the map in Six Ages, that the Aramites are connected to the Infithan/Infithetelli, who were descended from Infithe, twin sister of Jorganos, and her husband Proscriptor the Cannibal.

The northern part of the Infithetelli, of course, was conquered into the Empire of Light, and the Aramites were distinct by the Dawn, so, if so, they separated in the Greater Darkness. However in the Vingkotling age the tribe is said to have inhabited "Northern Tarsh" and the "Upper Black Eel" - Tarshford down to Slavewall or thereabouts. The Aramites never became Heortlings, of course, and the Stravuli are found - descendants of the Jorganostelli of the Upper Oslir - on the south bank of the Black Eel around Too Far by the Dawn. It will be interesting to see if Aram's people appear in later iterations of the game.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Which is the way most myths go. With almost all the Greek nobility descended from Olympians (there may be some leftover Titans in some divine ancestry), the Greek myths are mainly all in the family. Germanic myth has the same premise for its kings, documented when the (very christian) King of Mercia had do fake a line of descent from Woden to be taken seriously by his fellow Christian kings in Britain.

King Penda of the Mercians was kind of a hold-out, really. His death in battle allowed for the conversion of the Midlands. All descents from Wodan are contrived, though the Skjoldungs and Ynglings have at least the weight of tradition. So actual pagan belief among the Anglo-Saxons had only a frayed connection to descent claims. In Glorantha, the only plausible way to make artificial descent claims that will stand up to a divination is by hero questing or getting a relevant ancestor/ghost to claim the person as a descendant (as with a wyter).

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Not to my knowledge.  I don't think I've seen anything by or about him since the early-to-mid 2000s.

Ian Thomson's last gaming writing credit was in 2011 with the Footsteps of Fools series for Dying Earth, with Pelgrane: http://site.pelgranepress.com/index.php/in-the-footsteps-of-fools/.

Edit: if anyone knows how to find him... it would be Robin Laws, who, coincidentally or not, is working on the new Pavis book.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I agree. But as Pendragon is a Dynastic Epic, we will need a way of continuing the family line for female Knights. 

In medieval France, it was not unknown for sons and daughters of high-ranking women to take their mother's surname (or fief name) and coat of arms in lieu of their father's. There are also some examples in English history (and Welsh/Cymric).

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I agree. And one of the nice things about the "Book of" approach to things is that GMs who don't want it don't have to buy or use it. 

As far as female knights go, I think the book would need to spell out just how that would work. As a GM I'm less concerned about letting women fight like the men (the Cymri, Saxons etc. all had warrior women as part of their cultures) than I am about the social repercussions of female knights on the feudal structure. Stuff like:

• Who inherits land from a female knight? The eldest son, the eldest daughter, or just the eldest child?
• What happens, land wise when a female knight marries a male knight? Does the husband get control of both estates? The one with the most glory? Are they kept separate? If the wife dies does the husband keep her land or get 1/3rd of it value to maintain himself? And, again,  just how does that all impact inheritance? 

So if the Book of Ladies allowed female knights, it would open up a big can of worms that would need to be sorted out- and it a way that didn't ruin the feel of the game. My suggestion would be to treat female knights either as one offs (so everything defualts to the norm, except for the handful of female knights), or along family and county lines (so that in the family of Boudicea in the lands of the Iceni, the women always were the warriors and so they are Knights and can hold land in that area). 

In France, inheritances from the mother were often assigned to younger sons or elder daughters. A female knight (and there were some similar roles - a 'chevaleresse' or 'chevalière' in France was a woman who either was married to someone with a knight's fee or held one in her own right. A woman possessing a noble title or fief in her own right in 12th century England or France would transmit them to her heirs of her body, not any stepchildren or a widower (though if she has minor children, the widower would be the guardian of these lands). A female knight would have the same inheritance rights and privileges as man. This is a major plot point in the romance of Silence, which is semi-Arthurian, and features a woman disguised as a man who becomes a knight.

Glory would impact the partner to a limited degree, like a wife bestows Glory for her marriage to her new husband.

In my view, female knights ought to be rare and singular (and maybe there is a PC plus a woman knight who acts as a mentor...) and/or a small and exclusive order linked to specific cultures, but they definite have a niche in Arthurian romance: Grisandole, Silence, and Britomart are very memorable characters.

Regarding the name Iffinbix, it may be a Old Pavic distortion of another name. Yojarl sounds a bit Pentan to me... Or it could be 

Compare Jolanty, the name of SS's god, which is Zho Lath Ey in Kralorelan. Names can get really distorted.

Timeline-wise he's active - and note his 'third eye' during Sheng Seleris' domination of Prax.

40 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Most Orlanthi of the late Third Age call the sun disk "Yelm". Some say he serves or is carried by Elmal, others say he is the distant father of the more helpful Yelmalio. Some say the sun disk is the depersonalised Ehilm. Some heroquesters say all four is correct. 

Like Helios versus Apollo?

19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Yamsur appears to be the light atop/above the Spike (if there ever was just one). That would be higher than Yuthubars.

That's interesting. Note that in (some of) the God Learner/Heortling texts, AFAIK, Yelm/the Emperor was an appointee of the Celestial Court, and that is where he ruled, in the Perfect Palace. If so, Yamsur was the original emperor...

Yamsur seems to have ruled the White Elves of the Sun, the Golden People, and the Sky Spears. White Elves also suggests the Spike.

Compare Harono to Yamsur; Harono also ruled over central regions and Ernaldela.

13 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Thanks. I thought that Hatun, pronounced similarly to Khatun but with a normal H not an an aspirated one, just was a title for "Woman".

I hadn't heard of Khanum.

It's kind of like using Madame. The modern usage is a polite honorific.

12 minutes ago, soltakss said:

There are Counts and Mayors, in Prax and Dragon Pass.

In Prax, I'd say that Khan is a common title for a male leader of a Clan or Tribe, Queen is the female equivalent, although I support Khaness could work. Pent could have the same, in my Glorantha they share a common origin with Praxians.

 

 

The female equivalent of Khan is Khatun or Khanum.

Back to work on this. Currently gathering info on Richelieu and Mazarin's occult libraries...

The Redlands bit is from Borderlands and Pavis books. He is linked to Kostaddi - his ancestors came from there according to the Pavis HQ book. Rone is on the semi-canon HW map of the Lunar Empire Wesley Quadros made, in Kostaddi. The wiki says he tried to stem a rebellion in Kostaddi c.1610 but I'm not sure of the precise source; perhaps an interpolation from the Borderlands info.

4 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I thought Duke Raus was Carmanian.

Kloster

He's from Kostaddi, transplanted to the Redlands, transplanted to Prax.

The Lunar Empire does not have noble titles but it has elite offices, such as Sultan, Satrap, Overseer, ranging all the way up to Lunar Immortal and Egi. In practice, the extended family of these people has noble social status.

The Dara Happans may have had titles and still use them (i.e., Duke Raus got his somewhere, Count Sor-Eel, etc.), but nobility is a quality associated with families descended from an Emperor. They don't consider non-Imperial descended Lunars to be nobility, merely high-ranking bureaucrats.

The Holy Country had Count and Duke as military titles/positions.

8 minutes ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

"How far can Too Far go?"

Depends. There's probably a Two Fer One Special at the market. And that strange horn is perhaps the Toot Far.

1 hour ago, TrippyHippy said:

Personally, I don't think a 'mixed party' would be good for the game.

It's precisely what occurs in many Arthurian romances: the Triple Quest, all the variants of Lynette and Gareth (there's a half-dozen or so), and several episodes in the Grail romances. Usually a 'lady' or handmaiden with a knight, but sometimes a magician or enchantress.

There, are, of course, a multitude of Yelm's sons active in Six Ages, in the Lesser Darkness:

Elmal

Little Yelm

Demon Sun (Shargash)

Ghost Sun

Eggshell Sun

Cold Sun (Yonesh)

Unless this is an abstraction of some sort of psychological fragmentation/Yelm's six souls (note there are six here) - then the game seems to represent the sons of Yelm as numerous and differentiates between Elmal and Little Yelm (Yelmalio). Antirius might be a job, rather than a discrete identity, too.

47 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

More size comparisons. Bison may be a bit small, and ostriches vary in size.

[I always draw the mount and rider separately, so that if one goes wrong or information received indicates it's wrong, the entire sketch isn't lost. Tomorrow the rhino may get a rider.]

Pretty sure a bison is slightly bigger: 10-12 feet long and 4-5 feet tall. The 'zebra' is actually a small horse, right?

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Have you read the pamphlet that comes with Dorastor? It goes something like "Storm Bulls, Trust your senses" then goes on to say not to believe that Storm Bull can be tricked. All good advice.

I always thought that was Lunar propaganda, right?