jeffjerwin

It was a period of much havoc, and the ducks and the Lismelders would have had to deal with the whole Tarshite wars - first the Colymar went and stole the Ivory Throne from Bangor (around 1440) and then the Tarsh king died without heirs.

Of course, the Colymar are not to be trusted, so the Duck king or queen might have allied with Tarsh and the Earth cult on Wintertop during c.1450-1460, and even helped Illaro attack the Quivini.

Perhaps 'Brackbrood the Lothario' sought an alliance with the Tarshite Earth queen and presented himself as potential lover and consort. This may have ended badly.

Hey Quackatoa, who was the Duck King or Queen in c.1450? (a generation or so before Sartar, that is)? Anyone in particular, or should I make something up?

3 hours ago, Narl said:

There is one background aspect I need to work on. Iverne, the Chalana Arroy healer has a talking shadowcat (who can cast Sleep) named Slythin. Slythin is small, like a kitten, and does not seem to age. Both Iverne and Slythin have Passions associated with each other. Slythin also seems to encourage Iverne to make certain decisions at times. What is Slythin? I need to work that out, and I am open to suggestions. Some sort of Yinkin association seems appropriate. I'd like to keep Slythin sort of enigmatic but I want to reveal some secrets about the cat, I just don't know what those secrets are yet!

Alusar is the child of Yinkin who is demigod of sneaky black cats. The simplest explanation is that Slythin is a lesser godling, perhaps a child of Alusar, like the sorts of minor gods and spirits one meets in the wilds. Alusar likes to keep secrets and move about by night, doing sekrit cat biznes.

At least one Blue Moon type is known: bats. These are mammals with flight, a sort of mixture of Sky and Storm.

39 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Secondly, the gazzam/dinos. My last reading seemed to imply that these are cousin-species of the Dragonewts/dragons. Is there a connection between Celestial Beasts (birds, horses, etc.) with "Draconic Beasts" (dinosaurs... reptiles in general?). I mean, Hykim itself is identified with Korgatsu, the Cosmic Dragon and creator of the Beast Rune. And they all lay hard-shelled eggs, for what it's worth.
 

At least in Dragon Pass, the gazzam are pretty established as Earth creatures... the children of Maran Gor. If they have a connection it must be through the 'father'.

4 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Although there are various degrees of marriage, I don't think a marriage contract could include a provision for one side or the other being unfaithful. Instead, there are rules about the duration of the marriage--a day, a year, or indefinite duration. But there are definitely ritual exemptions of various kinds. 

Well polyandrous and polygamous marriages are possible, which also is an exception, though rare. Hendira, the queen of Nochet, had two underhusbands, for example. If you are married to a Uleria cultist, technically, all of her extramarital relationships are ritually exempt, but there are cases-in-between.

It does seem that given that Ernalda has the Harmony Rune she is the source of justice among Earth peoples.

I would imagine given "There is Always Another Way" that the principle behind Earth justice is restorative, not codified. The Gor cults are necessary only when restoration and recompense is impossible or the enemy is not cooperative.

Drogarsi is an Orlanth sub cult dedicated to being a skald. He is also connected to Donandar. I'd run it as Orlanth Adventurous with an adjusted skill list and some different spells.

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Because they weren't really there, or they were. 

Sorana Tor was also immune, by virtue of being a demigod's avatar. The other possibility is that the leadership of the troupe isn't actually human, at least to draconic reasoning.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Puppeteers and the EWF have the temporary reality of on one hand the Illusions and on the other hand the dragon dream in common. Why that made them immune from the Inhuman Occupation curse isn't quite clear.

Vistikos was excommunicated in Nochet. That doesn't sound much like Puppeteer membership to me.

Well, there is an enormous Donandar temple in Nochet. The methodology of the hunting and waltzing bands, of conversion through performance, seems awfully similar, but maybe, if the proximate holy realm magics are a shared secret that is the main link.

Sartar turned some people into termites, so they must exist also.

BTW, I have continued to develop this campaign idea, though it's now set in 1450+.

I've come to the following conclusions:

There is an obvious connection between the EWF and the Puppeteers. But the Puppeteers survived and continued during the Inhuman Occupation, meaning that they were not 'flawed' in the sense that the Dragon Ring was.

I think the Puppeteers were originally part of the Proximate Holy Realm system. Like the priests of Orlanthland, they reject kings... Like Orlanthland, they promote harmony and nonviolence. As the Guide says: "In 600, the priests of Dragon Pass successfully executed the Gate of the Proximate Holy Realm. This initiated a long period when the priests and priestesses (and their later draconic heirs) ruled. The Orlanthi way was directed to create a society based on the Ernaldan virtues of providing. Violent men were sent to join the Brotherhood of War, who expanded the Kingdom of Orlanthland into southern Peloria at the direction of the priests."

The proximate holy realm was a gate between the Hero Plane and the mundane world. This is also a feature of Puppeteer performances. The Puppeteer territory is essentially the same as the core of Orlanthland. They gather in EWF (and earlier, Orlanthland) ruins. Compare their values, and the values of Orlanthland to the values of Sartar, who was initiated into the Puppeteer secrets...

I think Vistikos, with his 'dancing' magic, and his mysticism, was a breakaway figure from the Puppeteers, and thus the EWF could be said to be a mistaken path taken by an aberrant troupe.

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

Now in terms of the Creek-Stream-River, I would suggest that the River is probably navigable, but the fact that there are no settlements on it except Crabtown and Snakepipe Hollow (a Chaos Settlement) speaks volumes.  The Creek is more settled, having its headwaters in Telmori territory and flowing past a number of Sartarite settlements including Jonstown, Dangerford and Two-Ridge.  It also passes by Alone, but the map suggests it is not navigable at that point.  By comparison, the Stream joins the slow moving flow coming out of the Upland Marsh and waters Wilmskirk, Sun Dome, Clearwine, and Duck point, making it potentially an important waterway.  Runegate, being in proximity to the Upland Marsh is also connected by a navigable tributary to the Creek-Stream-River system.  Given the cliff structure depicted on the map, I would deduce that New Crystal City is a portage for river traffic, and it picks up the Lyksos river coming down from Rich Post in the Grazelands.  Technically the Creek-Stream-River ends in a marsh north of Shadow Plateau, but the waterway clearly continues as the Lyksos River and goes deep into Esrolia, ending at the mouth of the river with Nochet City.

One thing to keep in mind is that the River used to be quite populated, during the EWF and the First Age, as we can see in King of Sartar and other books; we also know there were Far Point/Tarshite settlements on the banks before c.1450. So the reasons there is no one there is probably defensive.

jajagappa, I am in your debt.

20 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Think western US, particularly Arizona.

Monument Valley is one example:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Monumentvalleyviewfromnorth.jpg

The Vermillion cliffs north of the Grand Canyon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vermillion_Cliffs_Arizona_Erik_Voss_IMG_3912.JPG

The Grand Canyon itself is really part of the entire Colorado Plateau, and many plateau features are in evidence there.

Scott's Bluff, Nebraska: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scottsbluff_National_Monument_001.jpg

For something non-US, Masada in Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel-2013-Aerial_21-Masada.jpg

Or parts of the Massif Central in France such as around the Tarn Gorge: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjw_f6rm9reAhUqja0KHXLKCQkQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millau-viaduc-tourisme.fr%2Fen%2Fdiscover%2Fmillau-grands-causses-tarn-gorges&psig=AOvVaw2NVD2Dctuf-kGnjLJgBMIR&ust=1542502372681191

 

I always thought Masada was similar (in more than one way) to Whitewall.

Serdredosa, the Earth Witch.

I'm thinking particularly of trading vessels headed to Nochet, loaded with goods from Tarsh and further afield.

Ducks might use coracles, I think. There are also trolls around the Shadow Plateau who might engage in trade.

Just fishing for some help here: what do they look like? I assume the river is navigable as far as Duck Point or so (the Upland Marsh is presumably a bit unsafe anyway). But if I'm wrong I'd appreciate the correction.

How do they get upstream, or does traffic pass by other routes inland, and only passes southward via the river?

The who serpent saga with John Adams is pretty interesting. It must be the same serpent that Benjamin Franklin formed out of component parts. Presumably Franklin's huge serpent then turned out to be more than Adams could handle, and it ate his mother. Lucky that the Mountain Witch knew how to summon the great Eagle spirit, which is now the wyter of America.

Edit: Of course, Franklin and Adams did find themselves at odds. When they were sharing a bed, Franklin insisted in opening the windows at night, which caused quite an argument, though Adams fell asleep while Franklin orated on the subject of night vapors. (https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2012/06/20/in-their-own-words-john-adams-and-ben-franklin-part-i/)

Curiously, I can find no evidence that there are Greek or Egyptian style sphinxes in Glorantha. Are they mentioned anywhere? I suspect they make sense as inhabitants of Beast Valley, given the presence of manticores, fauns, and minotaurs there... Or maybe they make sense as spirits (compare the picture on p.364 of the new RQ rules, where there is a similarly structured man-deer). Thoughts?

Edit: I have discovered that the deuterocanonical Dara Happa Stirs mentions depictions of Shargash as a male Egyptian-style Sphinx, which makes a great deal of sense. Perhaps the Greek sphinx could be used as a model for an Alkothi demoness.

Donandar

the major Lunar gods and goddesses

Lodril and his variations Veskarthan and Turos

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I realize that much of what i'm doing here is mostly foggying up an attempt to dig into and find some sense in an area that doesn't have an answer, and I hope it's not taken as pointless contrarianism or needless overcomplication, I guess I just enjoy tossing out ideas and see where it might lead us.

 

Yes, me too.

"Energetic" is certainly an excellent quality for a lover from the perspective of Esrolians.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'm not entirely sure about how the Esrolian politics works, but if they were sufficiently rich, they might've been able to bestow neighboring rulers with enough gifts for it to be natural (or desireable) for the others to recognize them as suzerains, Pacific Big Man-style. Not so much a bribe as a legitimate (and quite possibly widely popular) use of wealth.

I assume that if this is true, then at some point the gift-tribute-relations were marginalized and gradually or possibly dramatically replaced by a more institutionalized form of paramount rulership.

Yes, by Bruvala.

I'm thinking the queens of Nochet (the city only) would be 'river queens' from the Evaeo and Oraneo, who had claim to the lands close to the embarkment on the Lyksos, and thus would have profited the most from the trade from the Creek-stream. They would be rich enough to bribe their way into the queenship for a few generations.

25 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Sorry, I thought that since you were deliberately comparing Sari-ng and Is-Sari-es that you intended to incorporate the i in both, which now that I look again, you evidently did not, as the i's were not italicized. My bad.

I still don't know however, why you say that the Sar- element in Saring and Issaries are the same, but then don't include all the other Sar-names we have? (If my impression of your use of the word "there" is correct)

Well, let's see; I'll focus on it as a starting element for now. In HotHP, we have Sartar, and all his descendants. Let's set them aside: the name element is going to mean the same thing for each.

There's the ancient royal name Sarlanth, where we have Sar+l/anth. Associated with Sarl, most likely.

These are the only Sar[l]- names in the Heortling Mythology book as well.

Interestingly, in Fonrit, the city of Sarro worships Orlanth as their main deity.

Since Is-sar-ies and Orlanth share the Movement Rune, it makes sense for Sar-el, Sarro to signify movement, a shared quality, and one which is closer to the Esrolian 'Orlanth the Lover' than his Air/Storm affinities.

Sar(l)+ 'moving beloved' + tar (high, rising, cognate to Dar, chief) = the king of rushing/movement, a likely 'lesser' name for Orlanth...?