Richard S.

On the first day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

A Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the second day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the third day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the fourth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me.

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the fifth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the sixth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the seventh day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the eighth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the ninth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Nine puppeteers dancing eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the tenth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Ten tricksters leaping nine puppeteers dancing eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the eleventh day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Eleven Wind Lords piping ten tricksters leaping nine puppeteers dancing eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the twelfth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Twelve trolls a-drumming eleven Wind Lords piping ten tricksters leaping nine puppeteers dancing eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the thirteenth day of sacred time King Argrath sent to me

Thirteen wyrm banners waving  twelve trolls a-drumming eleven Wind Lords piping ten tricksters leaping nine puppeteers dancing eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

On the fourteenth day of sacred time King Argrath gave to me

Fourteen dead gods thirteen wyrm banners twelve trolls a-drumming eleven Wind Lords piping ten tricksters leaping nine puppeteers dancing eight Uraldites milking seven Augners prancing six Phoenix's dying

Five golden torcs!

Four demibirds three condors two Love Falcons and a Wind Hawk in a sacred tree.

I can barely read the handwriting in some places but it looks interesting! I'm assuming it's supposed to be some sort of timeline of the development of Glorantha's major sun gods?

What are some fun, unique, or really cool uses or combinations of spells that you or your players have come up with? How did they end up working in play? I think it would be fun if we could make some sort of document of these ideas for RQG, like the one that Sandy Peterson made for RQ3.

In a lot of Gloranthan art I've seen illuminates tend to be pictured with a third eye in their forehead. Is this just an artistic representation of their illumination, or are third eyes something that actually appears on illuminates, if not physically then on the hero or spirit planes. And if so, do they have any use or are they just there for looking cool?

I remember in the old RQ4 playtest, spirit magic was called the leftovers of the spirit world. To show this, there was a big table of effects that the GM could roll on each time a spell was used so it looked radically different each casting. Like the first time you cast shield it could appear as a blue glow with a sharp pop, and the second time it could be a purple and gold shell of energy smelling like a slab of bacon.

On 12/22/2018 at 4:00 PM, Wrestlepig said:

I wonder what would happen if you mined a true dragon. Maybe that's what Isilidan's up to.

>Be me

>Trollkin miner

>Big boss says to mine the new mountain that appeared last night

>Ok.jpg

>Tons of sweet metal

>Find a fucking huge gem poking out of the end of the mountain, enough to get me out of being dinner

>Hit it with my pick

>It opens up

>Ohfuckitsaneye.jpg

>Mountain was really a dragon

>All our sweet metal disappears and the holes in the mountain fill back up

>Get eaten by a dragon for dinner

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Here is an interesting point that bears out what I was saying (paragraph 10):

"The religious paths that the God Learners called mysticism can also lead to a state similar to Illumination. Practised predominantly by dragonewts and the Kralorelans, mystic beliefs teach that reality is an illusion that must be overcome to achieve enlightenment. Mystics typically gain great powers from progressing along the paths of enlightenment, but most lose the desire to use them, as any application of power further enmeshes them in the material world."

A state similar to illumination is not the same as illumination.

Interesting. Illumination is probably an important step in the process though, since, to put it as plainly as possible, illumination is the realization that everything is the same. Lunar illuminates think that everything is from chaos, and eastern mystics believe that its all an illusion. Larnstings could believe that everything is always changing, Stormwalkers/Orlanth mystics probably believe that everything is part of Orlanth's breath, and western mystics may think that everything is just energies operating under the same basic principles.

Relevant: http://glorantha.tumblr.com/post/98304095073/tell-us-of-the-various-styles-of-illumination

It looks to me like the end state of Illumination is mostly the same, the process of getting there is just different.

I believe you're thinking of Drang, the Diamond Storm Dragon. While I don't remember whether he was imprisoned by Mostal or not, the Mongoose books placed him as the moving force of the World Machine, able to shatter stone and shape diamonds with his breath, and mover of everything under the surface. For whatever reason he was also pinned as the patron of Orlanth Dragonfriend's cult, though besides their booming voices they share almost nothing in common.

16 minutes ago, Greville said:

To be honest I like the ambiguity. It lets me try out different ideas... 

Yeah, it's probably for the best

On 12/19/2018 at 1:19 AM, Greville said:

Hi,

I'm pretty new to Glorantha and have a couple of questions about how people see Gloranthan dragons. I love the difference between true dragons and dream dragons, although it took me a while to get my head around.

What kind of dragon does a dragonnewt turn into? The book mentions ancestral dragons, but isn't clear if they are like dream dragons or not. Either way it's a good thing that they are rare.

I'm planning on them being like dream dragons for now, but am open to any interesting ideas.

Secondly, if dream dragons spring from the subconscious of a true dragon does that mean there can only be one at a time per true dragon? I like the idea of dream dragons being born of errant thoughts and desires, but then be their own beings out in the world.

Do a dragon's dreams always form into dragons? What other creatures are spawned by the sleeping dragon?

To be honest it feels like there are no right or wrong answers here, I'll go away and ponder a bit.

What are your thoughts?

Dragonewts presumably turn into True Dragons after completing their life cycle (successfully experiencing each caste). The Ancestral Dragons were the children/dreams of the Cosmic Dragon, helped create Glorantha, and spawned the True Dragons. While even true dragons are on similar power levels to gods, the Grand Ancestral Dragons are levels far beyond that. However the "ancestors" which Dragonewts have a duty towards as stated in the Bestiary are not necessarily the GADs, rather it is all of Dragonkind from which the Dragonewt can trade it's descent, including True Dragons, GADs, the Cosmic Dragon, and even Ouroboros itself (which may not count as it's viewed as more of a concept/idea/cosmic truth than a living being).

On dragon's dreams, I don't believe we have non-DDs created by True Dragons, but IMG (In My Glorantha) the entire world, including the Cosmic Dragon and Chaos, is the dream of the ur-dragon Ouroboros, and everything within the dream is dreams of lesser and lesser dreams until you reach mortals, whose dreams have no permanence. Those who have realized the truth of the dream, including Dragonewts and True Dragons, can draw closer to the dreamer and dream the world to fit its idea of perfection, which results in things like dream dragons and the weirdness of the EWF. (This is all non-canon and just my ideas, YGMV.)

And you're partially correct. When you're dealing with dragons, everything is both correct and incorrect! (At least until the publishers give us some better material but that's never gonna happen.)

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

I cannot see, for example, how Dragon magic has anything to do with illumination, and yet apparently it does

IMG, Draconic Consciousness is a form of Illumination gained through cultivating a connection to the Dragonewt Rune. It grants many of the same powers as Nyaslorian Illumination, and at least partially shares the concept of "we are all us", but rather than postulating that everything came from Chaos, the Dragons say that everything, including Chaos, is part of the dream of Ouroboros. Draconic Consciousness is the recognition that everything is just the dream of a dragon and that the purpose of life is escaping the dream and rejoining with Ouroboros, therefore you can learn to shape the dream around yourself and ignore its illusory restrictions by virtue of your position as a fragment of the dreamer.

18 hours ago, Darius West said:

The Ni Sayers (for the Rokari Horal Caste).  As in "Richard the Tiger-Farted and the rest of his Ni sayers".

Alternatively the Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptang Zoo Boing sayers.

I don't know any specific inspirations besides our general "bronze age", especially India and the Mediterranean, but probably drugs played at least a small part too if we're being honest...

If you mean something like RQ2s reference sheet with all the skill bonuses and stuff, no it doesn't look like there is at the moment, sadly. I'd be happy to work on one, though for obvious reasons I don't think I'd be able to fit the family history on it.

These sound like NPC greetings from an Elder Scrolls game.

17 hours ago, Joerg said:

On a first glance, this looks rather similar to the RQ3 presentation of the Path of Immanent Mastery, which apparently was similar to the path Isgangdrang (the Speaker of the Third Council) was pursuing.

This does look playable, if as over-priced (rune-spell wise) as the RQ3 version (or its Hsunchen equivalents). You did a good job substituting temples to leaching off magic from the dragonewts (e.g. the dragonewt roadse) and true dragons.

I can see why you want to distance the cult from the elemental cults, although the breakthrough of draconism was Obduran's demonstration that you can both worship Orlanth and proceed on the draconic path of mysticism.

The mysticism side is almost non-existent. You do give a nod with applying the Meditation skill rather than the Worship (etc.) skill, but that's all.

If you are happy playing a partial shape-shifter, this cult will eventually give you some of those powers.

 

Arcane Lore suggested another way of residual draconic mysticism with its Red Dragon dojo somewhere west of Lunar Tarsh, near the Red Dragon lair. That dojo appears to be more like one of the Kralori martial arts styles, with some fire powers thrown into the mix, and possibly other options of spiritual advancement. But that's a different concept.

Thanks! You make lots of good points, especially about the lack of a really "mystical" feel. I was basing this largely off of how the Dragonspeakers were presented in MRQ1, which was mostly just a standard cult structure with slightly different magic, so probably very similar to the PoIM (which is probably itself just a glorified Hsunchen tradition). Any suggestions on how to fix the issue? I like shape shifting and all but that's not the only thing I want for my character.

14 hours ago, Crel said:

I like how you oppose the Dragonewt Rune to all the Elemental Runes. What would the Dragonewt Rune actually be classified as, though? My best guess is that it's maybe a Condition Rune? Also, do you have a plan for figuring out your character's initial Elemental Runes (since you want low scores, not high)? Will you get to start with Dragonewt Rune as one of your options instead of the six Elements?

It's a bit obscure to me how Dragon's Form functions. Transform Self lets three spells last for an hour, but the Dragonspeaker cult seems to have more which are eligible (Dragon's Hide, Dragon's Might, Dragon's Talons, and Dragon's Wings). In addition, "massive dream dragon" just seems more powerful than turning into a semi-divine bear (comparing to Odayla, the only cult using Transform Self at the moment). It's also worth pointing out that Dragon's Hide costs less, provides more, and is stackable compared to Bear's Skin (which is nonstackable). This feels particularly relevant to me because the Dragonspeaker cult seems like a smaller cult than Odayla (and generally bigger cult = bigger magic in RQG). I'm assuming that all Dragonspeakers are humans, and that Dragonewts function as normal.

On a similar note, Dragon's Breath seems to be a better form of Lightning/Thunderbolt (each of which are otherwise the premiere damage-dealing Rune spells) because it doesn't have the POW v. POW restriction of Lightning, and costs fewer points and doesn't have the cloud cover restriction of Thunderbolt.

Dragon's Thought is also crazy powerful, but... I like it, it seems like a cool zany trade-off for mastering the Dragonewt Rune.

I suggest that Dragon's Breath becomes a reskin of Lightning Bolt, and that Dragon's Hide becomes a reskin of Shield (though you can still use it with Dragon's Form). Those will help keep the cult at a similar level to those presented in RQG.

Additionally--if you're looking for brainstorming ideas--I wonder if the Power Runes could be implemented with this cult. From what I recall of the Bestiary's Dragonewt entry, they basically spend lifetimes engaging in a particular set of behaviors. I suggest that humans could mimic this, as part of the process of becoming a Dragon. The Dragonewt Rune and Elemental Rune dichotomy would still apply. What I think could be interesting is that to "earn" spells (or maybe actual dragonewt effects?) the Dragonspeaker cultist could have to max out each of a pair of Power Runes in turn (maybe ritually saccing a point of POW once he has?), demonstrating exploring the different aspects of life on Glorantha. So, after mastering the Death Rune and sacrificing a point of POW, maybe he learns Dragon's Breath. And then has to lose that Death Rune, and start mastering the Fertility Rune, or whatever, with the ultimate goal being 100% Dragonewt Rune, 0% in all Elemental Runes, and being 50%/50% in each of the pairs of Power Runes.

Also, if you're looking at being able to do the become-a-dragon thing with Dragon's Form, it might be appropriate to note in the description whether or not it can be stacked with Extension. Because who doesn't want to be a dragon for a year?

For starting out I was thinking that you just won't want to put any extra points into your elements, and assuming you've joined the cult you can just pump 40 of your starting points into it. Maybe I could go with replacing one of your element choices with it, I dunno.  As for the power of the magic, size ≠ power all the time, just look at societies like the Puppeteers or the Larnstings, though it's true that a lot of really powerful cults will attract a lot of followers. My view was that the Dragonwalkers, while small, still have access to a great many EWF secrets which are pretty powerful, though spell balance was definitely one of my biggest challenges. Maybe I could change Dragon's Form to actually turn the character into a Dream Dragon, randomly rolled (probably putting a lot of restrictions on time extensions and stuff)?

As for the Dragon's Breath point, I was trying to base it on the Lightning spell but I must've missed the Pow v. Pow roll, oops.

On your Power Runes idea I did include them in earlier ideas of mine for dragon magic, either as a prerequisite for advancement or as something that actually restricts your development. Basically the goal was to balance them, with the advancement ides requiring you to have balanced a certain number of pairs to advance, and the restriction idea being that the total of your powers' differences and your elemental runes penalized your casting skill. Illumination could definitely play a part in this, as one of its functions in RQG is removing the "must add to 100%" restriction from your powers, according to the guy who summarized the rules from Nyaslor's cult in the preview GoG he got.

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

How about making Awaken the Draconic Soul a one-use spell, maybe just 1-point? That would make joining the cult a much bigger deal, your priest really has to be convinced that you are a good prospect.

That's a great idea! Awaken was kind of a last minute though for me, so I didn't give it as much consideration as the other spells. Thank you for the suggestion!

10 hours ago, Ultor said:

I really like the Dragonewt Rune mechanics. I worry that the cult itself is a bit too Immanent Mastery-ish in that it is centered around transforming oneself temporarily into a dragon, which I don't think is what the EWF was all about - they seemed to be about achieving draconic consciousness. I'm giving the dragonfriend in my campaign access to Dragonewt magic as she awakens new stages of draconic consciousness, but have been playing that by ear rather than with any dedicated rules. I'll be interested to see you experiences with this in play.

Like I said to Joerg this is heavily based on MRQ's rules for Dragonspeakers, which heavily used transformative magics, though I do want to look into more mystical, interesting options for spells or even the type of magic, maybe something other than traditional Rune magic. How you're running it seems similar to my original idea of having the mystic advance through different "stages" reminiscent of Dragonewt castes, gaining similar powers as they do so, though later I had a theory that maybe human dragon magic was just fancily re-skinned Rune magic and scrapped the idea. Now I may want to return that idea to the drawing board, looking at all the suggestions on this thread.

Anyways, thank you all for taking a look and giving suggestions, your feedback is tremendously helpful 😃. I was also looking at a homebrew cult for some Pavis-based dragon magic (https://web.archive.org/web/20010117041300/http://home.primus.com.au/arkat/estangtang.html) and it looks like it has some good ideas I may steal too.

Hey all. I'm playing in an RQG campaign soon and got permission to have a dragon mystic character. This is my attempt at writing up a cult based on the EWF's Dragonspeaker cult, though I've made the decision of making it a regular Rune cult as opposed to making a new dragon magic system for human PCs (well I technically did that already but it was way too complicated). I'd like some feedback on the cult from people who know the game better than I do, and maybe some of your thoughts on just draconic mysticism in general too. We're not starting for a few days I don't think so I have time to edit the cult if this thread provides some good ideas.

Here's the link to the doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zBNZWAq-1mRuysMhbA9TfE4UNxsD7crvsOjiAM0VOwY/edit?usp=sharing

In RQG Issaries rune has been replaced by Movement and Harmony (which are its composite runes anyways) so that you only need the runes on your character sheet.

Just now, Psullie said:

The 'Rune Metals and Magic Crystals' preview mentions this. All crystals need to be attuned to the the user, which takes 1 week. Spell storing crystals that are not attend lose their spells - but can be filled up again. This would make using other peoples artefacts impossible.

Narl's question is about Matrices I believe, not storage crystals.

This actually fits with what I know of sorcery pretty well. It's very specific, situational magic for the most part and relies on preparation and knowledge of your enemy to use effectively.

I'd probably require casting analyze magic to know for sure, though if they knew it was a matrix they could also just try casting it. Whatever runes or other decorations are on it could give a clue too.

Mostal, Cold, and the Invisible God are their official designations I believe.

The spell's from the Seven Mothers right? Easy, he just uses Moon. Summon Elemental is a common rune spell IIRC.