Richard S.

The five stages of Pentan life are based directly on the five stages of the Yelm cult, which in turn are based on the five recognized portions of Yelm's life - Youth, Warrior, Teacher, Leader, Sage.

"The divisions so neatly made are manifest in the social structure of the societies which worshiped Yelm as their primary deity and leader of the pantheon." WF#11

That same writeup talks about how he practiced with weapons as a youth, and mentions "several tales" about him excelling as both a fighter and leader in battle. The only specifics mentioned are his fights with Zorak Zoran and Orlanth, but these were things that he did himself, not that he merely appointed a son to do.

The harp was also found "on the ground near where he walked", which is pretty direct evidence for movement (though perhaps I'm taking a myth a little too literally).

Most of this stuff is repeated in the WW#16/CC writeup.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

 

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Yes, the young men can progress seemlessly into Yu-Kargzant, but their behavior is Kargzant, not Yelm.

 

The Lightfore worshiping Pentans can't join the Yelm cult, which is why the Pure Horse People are a thing. Among the PHP, their men go through the five subcults of Yelm as they age and accrue responsibility, as described for the Grazers in RQG.

You can use any vtt without maps. The "table" space can still be useful for placing handouts or reference images or such.

12 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Are there any statistics to support this?  And what is the intent of the game designers?

Jeff's mentioned a few times that dual initiates are pretty rare, possibly just a rounding error.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/mythology-book-coming-october/

Personally I just run heroquests as normal adventures. I'm considering using the "MP doesn't regenerate and spells are permanent" idea, but it hasn't been a huge issue. All that's different from a real-world adventure is the framing and the possible consequences, which aren't things that I need definite rules for.

3 minutes ago, radmonger said:

One thing is that when you meet (or embody) a deity on a Heroquest, you are not speaking Sartarite or Esrolian, but Storm Speach or Dark Tongue. In other words, one language per rune, presumably with a fluency equal to your rating in the rune.

The capability to speak those runic languages outside the context of a ritual or quest is esoteric knowledge that few have, and vanishingly fewer master. So translating the words, names and titles used in a runic language to a human one is a far from perfect art. Nevertheless, it is one of great significance if you want to explain, plan or prepare for a quest beforehand.

What's your source on this? I haven't seen anything about rune tongues being the only languages you can speak on a heroquest (though they're probably helpful to know).

Basic ability with elemental languages is pretty common. Boatspeech, Dara Happan, Heortling, and Pure Horse Tongue all give 1/5 fluency with their elemental counterparts, which usually puts you at or close to "may get across simple requests and function living day-to-day" level.

32 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Not much? At a cursory glance...

1. Throwing javelins and protecting Mahome and leaping on treetops and running on snow to defeat Valind?
2. Many other tales of her Defending Storm defending the Stead (often along with Elmal)?  Where she "inspires the seemingly defenseless to defend themselves."
3. Vestantes, “the Fightin’est Woman,” who defeated every male challenger in the land
4. How her hair turned red?
5. Throwing her javelin exactly one mile to help measure fields
6. Being "present at difficult childbirths" 
7. Wearing a knee-length skirt worn over men’s trousers.
8. "Every childless widow among the Kheldon Tribe dyed her hair red that winter"
9. How she joined the Storm Brothers (though I know Greg didn't like this tale)

There was a lot.  I agree that there was subcultitis.  I never actually played Hero Wars, but it seems a shame to totally drop so much good or interesting material as "non-canonical".  Especially as many of the important NPCs are prominent members of the Vinga cult.  In the standard Colymar campaign Leika is the Queen of the PCs.  Might be nice to have more information about her cult.

Those can still be important stories for Vingans to follow if you want to use them, but I'd say that pretty much every god has had just as much if not more of their myths left untold in published books.

In any case, maybe someone wants to start a Vinga thread instead of hijacking this one more?

I just noticed that Malkion and his parents got a spot on the big genealogy chart. I think this is the first image we've ever gotten of him.

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I am completely blanking, but doesn't Dara Happa have some gods that are associated with working gold or tin? I mean, they obviously are associated with those metals just in general, but I thought that some of them were involved in shaping it as well. I might VERY WELL be fabulating.

Lokarnos has Coin Wheel, maybe you're thinking of that?

56 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Do they reprint the books with corrections?

I assume so, otherwise there's not much point to the corrections threads

Very nice book, as usual. I think I'm going to wait for the errata before getting my hardcover this time though.

I really, really, really, really like the picture of Orlanthi riding dragons. EWF!

5 hours ago, Starcarr said:

This is the one I’ve been most looking forward t!o! Not a fan of the cover though. 

I'm kinda mixed on it. On one hand I like the mix of gods and the variety in how they're portrayed - Argan Argar and Valid especially stick out to me. On the other hand I gotta agree with the "corporate pose" comment, mostly because of how Vinga's posed.

14 minutes ago, AndreJarosch said:

First one being Buserian, the socond the Lightbringer Lhankor Mhy. 
But the Godlearners tell us it is the same deity. 

Given that several of those god learners were beardies themselves, I think they had a point on that one at least.

3 hours ago, Zac said:

I was listening to the latest God Learners podcast with Jeff and I was intrigued by the discussion about the various issues surrounding the names of the deities in Glorantha. Jeff made mention to some Meso-American traditions with gods having multiple names but I always thought that this was a result of our experience with deities being not real. Would a deity, an actual physical presence with a personality, want to be known by more than one name?

Would the Gloranthan version of Heracles want someone to refer to him as Nio?

We can do it on earth because there is no actual deity going to pass judgement on us for misnaming them. Would that be that actual case in Glorantha?

Other than Eurmal who might think it was funny to appear to people as a totally different deity. 🙂 

Regardless of whether or not you believe in gods in our world, other people freely give them multiple names while fully believing that the gods can exact judgement on offenders. That's evidence enough for me that Gloranthan gods don't care either, except for cases where you're trying to name them as an entirely different god (a la Ernalda and Dendara vs. the God Learners). But you can call Orlanth Worlanth, West King Wind, Humat, etc. and the god will still respond, as those are all proven to be names/titles for the same being.

King of Sartar is the closest thing to a "canon" future Glorantha has, presented in the format of ancient documents collected by a scholar living in roughly 2200, with plenty of gaps, errors, and misinterpretations. There's a campaign book planned that will roughly follow the course of the Hero Wars as laid out in KoS, but we probably won't see it for a while. In short, I wouldn't worry too much about it. KoS is a good read, but don't take it as definitive gospel for what has to happen in your Glorantha.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

You get the first one automatically, and there will be examples on how to expand an adventurer's illumination, it's mostly based on their teachers. Suffice to say, to get all of the listed one may take years.

I like this method. Both since it lets GMs introduce new powers for different teachers or schools of illumination, and because it gives some feeling of progression to illumination beyond just "well you've got it".

25 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Some of the Storm Bull rules don’t really make sense and we must imagine that they’re interpreted in creative ways. For instance, you must seek places of Chaos out and attack them, but clearly not all Storm Bulls just always charge off to Dorastor/Snake Pipe Hollow/Larnste’s Footprint/Devil’s March/[Insert local Chaos nest here] to get themselves quickly killed.

In Talastar, Storm Bull is probably the premiere warrior god, and this plain doesn’t work if they have to charge Dorastor all the time as this would mean every Storm Bull initiate’s life would be counted in weeks.

"Initiates are required to investigate any hints or rumors of
Chaotic presence personally and to rouse all local lay members,
if possible, to deal with the threat. They must also report it and,
if they did not kill it, lead the next party to the site." CR:L132 (SB Initiate requirements)

I think this could be interpreted as "destroy it if you're able, if not just be vigilant and help others to do so." And if the chaos presence is already widely known about, like Dorastor or Snake Pipe Hollow, it probably doesn't count as a rumor or hint to be investigated.

"If they learn of or sense the presence of Chaos, they must
leap up, shout for their god, grab their weapons, and set off
to destroy it" CR:L133 (SB Rune Lord restrictions)

I think the same thing goes for the rune lords - if they learn of any new chaos they are required to go deal with it, but established problem spots can be dealt with more rationally. Of course, the priests would probably like it if all the bulls decided to go storm Dorastor one day, but even they're smart enough to know that it probably wouldn't do much good. YGMV.

In any case, Storm Bulls are definitely not munchkins or god learners.

22 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also noted that Hannand was at the end of the lake but there doesn't seem to be a lake near there just the River.

According to King of Sartar, the "lakes" are really just very clear, deep stretches of the River, or at least they were in the Second Age when that account was written.

24 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I saw it was called the Tongue of the Dragon and if so why?

Anyone know what the "Process barracks of the Right to Left Hand" is as its mentioned... 

"Process Barracks of the Right to Left Hand" is the translation of Salor's draconic name, Kermalanaladeen, according to Stafford Library VIII: the Middle Sea Empire. It was where foreign merchants were sent after being processed at Orin Jistel. Maybe the name refers to it being a place where goods passed from the "right hand" (non-draconics) to the "left hand" (draconics).

I think the Lunar book is next up, sometime Q1 24

The Stormwalkers get an entry on page 39 of Cults of Runequest: the Lightbringers. They're a subcult of Orlanth Thunderous open to Storm Voices or intelligent Air spirits devoted to Orlanth, and they learn the spells of Discorporate, Flood, and Summon Large Air Elemental. Multiple members can also pool their Rune points together to cast Cloud Call, Flood, Rain, or Thunderbolt, allowing them to stack far more than your average priest. I don't remember the companion's descriptions of the breath powers, so it's your own judgement as to whether they match up to their Runequest powers.

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

In this post from 2020, you say there are only a few hundred Eiritha initiates in all of Sartar, a fraction of a percent.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/cult-membership-in-sartar/

 

Eiritha could be more common if many Earth Cultists are dual initiates, e.g. of Ernalda and Eiritha.  Is that the intent?

While there might not be many initiates she's probably got plenty of lay members. All you need to support a shrine is a god talker and a couple dozen worshipers.

51 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Like in the RW, bison can breed with domestic cattle, and I suspect many (most?) cattle in Sartar are probably beefalo.

Can all Eiritha animals breed with each other, or are cattle and bison unique in that respect?

9 hours ago, metcalph said:

Apparently not according to the Prosopedia.  He has just a doubled Fire rune whereas Yelm also has Life and Death.  There's also Galanin who has a doubled fire rune and a beast which apparently stems from him as the bearer of the Sun Disc, Ehilm.  I have my suspicions about what this all means.

Ehilm is the Sun Disk, which as far as I'm concerned is essentially the same as being part of Yelm. Him not being associated with Life and Death is probably because his cult didn't have the complete Yelm mythology that other solars did. In any case, I think the power runes for greater elemental gods are pretty flexible, given that HeenMaroun is explicitly a name for Yelm but has Fire/Stasis/Mastery.

Probably either as a sign of wealth or because you're a solar cultist and prefer horses since they're solar creatures. Otherwise yeah, a Praxian beast is a lot easier to get since Prax is right there and the nomads regularly trade with people from Dragon Pass. For good horses you have to deal with the Grazelanders, which I imagine is a bit more difficult since horses are the single animal their whole society is built around.

After some thought, I think I'll start with the following:

Malkion - Daka Fal. Sometimes divided into Talar, Horali, and Dronar subcults. I'm not sure if there's no Zzabur because he's still alive, or if there is but the Zzaburi just don't want to use it.

Seshna Likita - Ernalda. Heavily regulated, but also just difficult to access after the incident.

Seshna - Grain Goddess.

Gerlant, Talor, Xemela, Hrestol, etc. - separate hero cults (imo like spirit cults with priests instead of shamans) with limited common magic and a single special spell each. Hrestol has Joy instead of a spell.

Aerlit - Orlanth Adventurous as an ancestor. Doesn't come with the four magic weapons by default, and with Malkion as the only accepted associate.

Goldentongue - Issaries as an ancestor. Only the titular subcult, and again only Malkion is worshiped as an associate.

Warrior Societies - mostly the appropriate Hsunchen cults. The main exceptions are the horse society, who worship Yelmalio, and the bulls, who have Urox. I don't think any of them will have transform self, and as per usual the associates will be a bit different though idk how yet.

Tanier - the local river god, probably more like Oslira than Engizi imo.

Dormal

Foundchild - added as a Horali approved cult for player-related reasons.

Worlanth, Ehilm, and Humct - Orlanth Thunderous, Yelm, and Humakt respectively. Being bad rebel Erasanchula, they aren't worshiped. Humct gets an occasional exception among the Horali, though always heavily restricted.

Talars worship either Malkion or one of the god-ancestors primarily, and often initiate to a hero cult like Gerlant on the side. A few Talars worship Seshna Likita, serving as the priesthood for the regular Seshna cult. Horali have warrior societies, either Hsunchen or an approved martial god. Dronars worship Malkion and Seshna, with the occasional unapproved barbarian cult and spirit society. Everyone worships the Invisible God, so I didn't list it.

Do the Rokari know what gods are behind the names they use? Sure, but they also know that their way of worshipping them is superior to the barbarian ways and keeps them from being enslaved to the gods. Also a good dose of "see/hear/speak no evil" helps.

Do they have less rune magic than the barbarians? Yeah, but the wizards make up the difference. Sure, the god learners tried to have the best of both worlds, maybe even let the wizards play with rune spells, but any Rokari can tell you how well that turned out.

19 hours ago, Gary Norton said:

Page 64 (Caladra & Aurelion): It really seems odd that Mostal gives the Diamond Edge rune spell to this cult since Mostal cultists have no rune magic; nor do the Mostali have a Diamond Edge (or similar) sorcery spell. Mostal also seems to have no Associated Cults, so it seems odd that Caladra & Aurelion have Mostal as an Associated Cult. [Perhaps this is all deliberate, but it seems odd since there is ordinarily some sort of reciprocal relationship with Associated Cults.]

Just because the dwarves refuse to worship the World Machine as a god doesn't mean there's not a way to get rune magic from Mostal. The reciprocal relationship is probably just dwarves having access to earthbone and fireblood.

Probably not a major issue, but the description under each god's portrait has an invisible blurb about Magasta behind it.

29 minutes ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

At the risk of derailing this thread, since when have Seshnelans worshiped gods except for the Invisible God? I thought they were monotheists.

They've been changed quite a bit since RQ3. Nowadays only the Zzaburi use sorcery, while the other castes use spirit and rune magic appropriate to their tasks. Generally they prefer ancestor worship, mistrusting gods, but sometimes they can be useful, and nowadays there's several groups of Malkioni with long histories of god worship; Seshnelan kingship even derives from Seshna Likita, the local grain goddess. A lot of the time this will be justified by reducing the god to merely a powerful ancestor, like how the Trader Princes worship Issaries, or the horali warrior societies worship Hsunchen totems. I think the only Malkioni groups that completely eschew the worship of gods are the New Hrestoli and Brithini.

If you go to the Well of Daliath and search "Malkioni" or "Malkionism" there's several posts that break it down better (mostly anything dated 2020+).