klecser

2 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Bestiary pages 31-32. Per the box on page 31, any occupation is available and Ducks worship the Orlanthi deities.

Thanks David. What I'm thinking of though: is it WISE to play a front line fighter, as a Duck? You can. I understand that. What I fear is that one of my players makes an uninformed choice and walks up and gets smacked when I can do pre work to help them recognize a pitfall.

Thank you, everyone.

Followup: There is nothing stopping me from telling a player that they can make a Duck that wears armor of the point values common to humans, correct? But at the same time, encumbrance is a significant aspect of RQ, and they would pretty much be making it impossible for them to swim.

Followup: When you make a Duck adventurer, what do you do? Duck priest/magic combatant? How do you make a Duck "shine" in RQG? 

@Jeff any insight on these questions from a design perspective?

Many of my players want to play Elder Races. I recognize that many Elder Races are estranged from Human Civilization, so I'm trying to figure out how to construct a situation that would allow a Green Elf and a Duck (or any Elder Race) to participate in a game. I made it very clear to them that we are not running a DND game with a different setting and that there could be challenges associated with playing Elder Races. At the same time, these Elder Races are some of the main carrots dangling in front of faces that interest a lot of new players. Especially if they came from DND. They are used to and are most interested in the fantastical. So part of the goal here is to combine the best of both worlds and not say "no" when just a little work can meld everyone's desires together.

Items that need solving:

1) What angle could I take that could explain why Elder Races would associate with humans? For the Green Elf I was thinking that they could be an emissary for Green Elves trying to work with humans even if their people won't? They either wouldn't go into human towns, or is there some kind of glamour that they could cast that would allow them to do so?

2) The stats for armor for Elder Races are frequently very low numbers in the Bestiary. For example, a Duck has average armor values in the 2-3 range. Does this mean that Ducks CAN'T or DON'T wear the heftier armor value pieces of humans? Or is that a "commoner" value? It's going to be a hard sell for one of my players to "really want to play a Duck" and then find that Ducks have no armor and they have basically chosen a mechanically less effective character.

"No, you can't do that" isn't going to be an option here, so please consider helping me address the situation over going into "THAT NOT HOW GLORANTHA WORK!" mode. This isn't the thread for you, if that's your reaction. Thanks much.

1 hour ago, Gundamentalist said:

So why are you calling out SHP in a thread about Horrors of War? If it matters to you why isn't there a separate thread?

Maybe because the struggles that CoC Kickstarters have had seems pretty on topic in a thread about one that failed? Better than clogging up the board with more threads? I can think of some reasons. You may not LIKE those reasons, but that is a separate issue. I'm thinking that Board etiquette isn't the real reason why you commented.

36 minutes ago, umlauthuth said:

So, let's say you're handed the responsibility for fulfilling the Dare KS. What do you do?

That's SHP's job. It isn't my job in this situation to coach him on scheduling priorities. This isn't me saying I could do it better. Note that I'm not the one who started a Kickstarter. I haven't started one for a reason. I'm saying that the job isn't getting done. SHP did start a Kickstarter. Which kind of implies that he'll work to finish it on a reasonable timeline. I don't consider it to be a radical proposition to ask the professional to do the professional job. SHP seems to really struggle with accepting criticism gracefully.

It's honestly incredible to me the extent that people will go to in order to defend this lack of accountability. We are 18 plus months out on a one-shot adventure when the bulk of the text has been done for the majority of that time. 

1 hour ago, umlauthuth said:

What is the purpose of giving feedback, at this point, if not to get a refund? 

Accountability. Even if I can't obtain accountability for The Dare KS. Future accountability for Backers is worth it. Its really the only recourse Backers have. Kickstarter makes it virtually impossible to get any accountability from current Creators. They can break their promises and there is nothing you can do about it, other than to warn potential future Backers of other projects. Its a pretty crappy system that enables people to avoid accountability in the short term. Creators seem to think they can just do (or do not) whatever they want with absolutely no recourse from Backers. Backers are annoyances to them. Criticism is unwelcome and ignored. And under those circumstances, communicating what happened is the only thing you can do. It's pretty simple actually. You take responsibility and admit the concerns and work to fix them? There is no problem. You drag your feet, blame other people, refuse to accept responsibility for fixing a situation? People take the only option they have. People shouldn't get to act all shocked when that is the outcome.

You'll notice that demands for accountability from CoC Creators are reaching a head very recently. KS cancelled Stygian Fox' new KS. People are fed up. I was not one of the people who pushed for specific accountability for Stygian Fox for starting projects without finishing others, but I support the people who did. You back your Backers into a corner? You reap what you sow.

Sons of the Singularity are what it should be. They didn't run a perfect KS, but did everything they could to fix the problems. This isn't about perfection. It's about serious people accepting responsibility.

I'm not sure Chaosium is going to just let you "officially create" a setting without establishing yourself first.  Of course, nothing is stopping you from creating fan-inspired personal content on your own.

A good place to start would be to submit something to the Miskatonic Repository first, being careful to follow the guidelines.

Wishing you success in getting started in the industry!

Congrats to @JonHook on another publication! And to Matt Ryan for art!

6 hours ago, SentinelHillPress said:

Refunds were (and yet still are) available without complaint to any backers unhappy with the status of the project and I have paid those few requested without complaint. 

I will not choose the refund option for several reasons: 1) I would be surrendering my ability to give feedback on the Kickstarter platform and 2) It would remove all of my prior comments.

I understand why you WANT me to seek a refund. You can get criticism to just disappear from the record.  Nobody gets to see what happened. It scrubs the Kickstarter of anything that is disadvantageous to you.

Absolutely not. People need to see what happened with this project. They need to be able to make an informed decision about actions you did and did not take and how you responded to people who expressed concerns. You are responsible for what you say in the context of your projects.

Monsters that are HIDDEN most of the time and INFECT scare me the most. The Borg, as you mention. Also, The Thing From Another World/Who Goes There?/John Carpenter's The Thing.

I think it comes down to the primal fear of imprisonment (even if metaphoric) and loss of the privilege to not be yourself. Plus, there isn't much you can do to avoid highly infectious threats. So, there is a loss of choice element as well.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

http://3zw0tn2csmas1gxg5k1aagl5up3-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/KingSartar_SartarTarsh.jpg

Is this image from the King of Sartar book, or from the Sartar Companion?

I have the Glorantha Sourcebook, and I can't seem to wrap my head around this:

What is the difference between The Lunar Empire, Lunar Tarsh, Tarsh and Old Tarsh?

I've seen those terms thrown around and I'm not sure how to reconcile them. Is Lunar Tarsh just the land of Tarsh when controlled by the Lunar Empire?

3 hours ago, MOB said:

That extension expired yesterday (June 30th).

On the Horrors of War Kickstarter, Adam Scott Glancy's most recent update (April 1st) said this:

Unfortunately, we have heard nothing from him. In fact, we have had no contact from Scott at all since we granted the most recent extension, back in November last year. 

This project is now 4 1/2 years past its original estimated delivery date (February 2015). At Scott's request, from August 2017 Chaosium has graciously extended his license three times (to August 2018, then to 31 Dec 2018, and then to 30 June 2019), on undertakings from Scott that completion was in hand, which we took in good faith.

We understand and appreciate that Scott has had various family and work-related challenges getting this project done. But in this time we've also been contacted by unhappy backers about the lack of progress, the lack of communication and updates, frustration at seeing Scott on social media talking about newer projects he's involved with, and asking us about refunds - all matters out of our control, although our company and the Call of Cthulhu name are linked to the project. In the absence of anything from Scott, it is time for us to definitively review our options. 

This seems to be a consistent issue in the industry. I'm of the opinion that, although some delays are to be expected, it is incumbent upon people to finish what they start. And if they are wishy-washy in execution, I don't fault Chaosium to defend the brand by making licensing decisions with the expectation of quality and expediency in mind. I would rather get fewer, high-quality products during a time frame, than a flurry of products that eke out an existence and betray the trust and finances that Backers contributed.

Despite the whole book destruction thing, Sons of the Singularity ran a model Kickstarter for The Sassoon Files. It was clear, from beginning to end, they were prepared to take wise action to deliver.

There are currently other CoC Kickstarters that are struggling, though.

I appreciated Stygian Fox increasing communication about the progress of their various Kickstarters. They listened. And while I am still not happy about the state of affairs, they took action to listen to their fans.

I think that Sentinel Hill Press is taking unfair advantage of their prior reputation in the community with The Dare Kickstarter. Requests for communication and timetables were met with snide dismissals and requests to "ask for refunds" throughout the majority of the KS. The most recent updates have been: "I still don't have art" which makes me wonder what parameters (if any) were given the the artists to finish in a timely manner. I understand that SHP is a long-time licensee. I don't believe that fact grants him carte blanche to continue to disappoint. We're not talking about a book here. We're talking about a one-shot in which the text has been finished for a while.

The key for me is that I don't believe that people should be given unlimited chances. That makes a mockery of the concept of a promise. People's game industry reputations are forged or ruined based on their actions (or lack of action).

I've been playing King of Dragon Pass this morning (it dropped to 3.70 USD ish on Steam, so I grabbed it.)

It is really helping me to understand the basic culture of Glorantha and the varied nature of the decision-making.

If you are a new player I think it is a great resource for scenario building and questing ideas.

I'm going to second this request. I'm not lazy. Far from it. I spend a lot of time prepping for my games. Glorantha is just so big that I just don't even know what I don't know. I DID purchase the Guide to Glorantha and am slowly slogging through it! But even by doing that, I still have no idea what the difference is between NEED to know and NICE to know.

I wanted to post about what some of my key takeaways of the game have been so far. I think I'm understanding it a lot better, especially since I've run it now, but I just wanted experienced eyes to see what I'm thinking:

1) You can play a Duck. I'm not really sure much else needs to be said from this point forward, but I'm going to anyway.

2) Skill and Rune augments are a huge part of the mechanics of the game. My impression, as a new player/GM, is that this single aspect is drastically different from many RPGs.

3) Specific Runes interact with specific skills and weapons. You need to read which spells use which runes to cast to select your Cult wisely and select spells that your Runes allow you to cast.

4) The benefit of low strike rank weapons is that they may allow you to attack more than once in a round even though they have generally lower damage.

5) A major step of the beginning of combat is buffing, whether through magic or rune/skill augments.

6) Ranged weapons provide a huge tactical advantage in the game.

7) Combats to the death among "socialized" beings (Humans, Elder Races) are rare. Ransom and bargaining are major aspects/mechanics of conflict resolution.

8 )Posturing, in general, is a huge aspect of the social exchange in Glorantha. Threats are common. They are not always followed through on. There is a "serious coyness" to the culture.

9) Rune magic is almost always "more powerful" than Spirit magic on a point-by-point basis. However, it is scarce and significantly harder to regenerate and gain more. Examples of ways to increase POW include: casting offensive magic that causes a POW vs POW resistance check (because it procs a POW improvement roll?), meditating to a God in the right season, and...other ways that I'm blanking on.

10) Other obvious things that you think I'm forgetting/missing?

7 minutes ago, Uthred said:

Ah, I think people need to stop defending their mistakes by hiding behind the shield of "opinions". It is not an "opinion" that both sections are mechanically identical. It's an objective fact. One which people responding to it have either not read or defended with a string on increasingly bizarre justifications. I have absolutely no problem with people not caring about it. It's a minor editing issue. That's obviously fine, different things bother different people. I do have a problem with people pretending that the sections arent the same and then when being called out on their errors deciding not to address that mistake but to hide behind swipes at peoples posting style. I have no problems with differing opinions but it has to be a question of opinion for one to have differing opinions on it and to mercilessly belabor the point, the two sections being mechanically identical is not an opinion. 

*pinches bridge of nose and sighs*

So, Uthred, you're going on my Ignore list. Ever since you've started posting you've been nothing but combative with people. I think you do have a huge problem with different perspectives, or at least with courteously navigating things that frustrate you. That isn't something I'm interested in engaging with here. 

Good luck to you.

1 minute ago, Uthred said:

There are no differences. Why do people keep talking as if the two sections aren't identical? This isn't a subtle nuance, this isnt a question of different learning styles, both are purely textual sections describing exactly the same effect, you are literally learning the same thing in each section. If one section was written while the other was pictorial it and they had different titles then yes it would be an opinion on learning styles. But again this has literally nothing to do with learning styles. You know, this is ridiculous, I wasted so much time on this minor point which I brought up in passing to illustrate how the mechanics of the game arent always clear. I'm done discussing this tangent now. 

I think that, if you want to remain a positive contributor to this board, you need to take a second to center yourself and not take differing opinions personally.

9 minutes ago, Uthred said:

The "potential consequences" of doubling damage rolled is identical there is no "subtle nuance" there it's simply an editing oversight. The potential consequences i.e. having a weapon stuck in you for impale and maybe being knocked out for slashing are covered in their own discrete sub-sections. 

Opinions on that are going to vary. Personally, if aspects of combat have similarities and differences, I don't mind them being kept separate in all cases in which they are recorded in the book to help to remind me that there are differences. You prefer the editing to be different. That's fine too. Everyone has different learning styles, and your learning style being different doesn't mean that there is a failure in editing choice. It means that this editing choice happens to not match your learning style.

I'm also a brand new player and completely new to Runequest. I've had early success with the Gamemaster's Screen Pack (now available stand alone), but I think that the adventures included are ordered less optimally than I desired for a gradual release. I almost fell into the trap of "Defense of Apple Lane is first in the book, so I should play it first!" Luckily, my general experience GMing helped me to avoid what would have been a disastrous decision.

I think Cattle Raid should be any new group's first scenario. I think Cattle Raid provides a great opportunity to give a gradual release of core mechanics, all within a single session or two. Here is my report:

Of particular note is how I used Brightflower to introduce aspects of the social rules of the world, and how I used Heortarl to introduce augments. This world is indeed, incredibly complex, so players need to see modeled examples of "how this works."

Cattle Raid is significantly less complex than either Broken Tower or Defense of Apple Lane. It offers a display of some of the core culture of Glorantha. It allows for logical use of Devotions and Loyalties. It allows for the critical establishment of the ability to Bargain as critical. It also showcases the need to be wise about combat.

If I were to do it for the first time again, I would have: 1) maybe included a "sparring" section to introduce battle concepts and/or 2) had one of the herders participate in the combat to showcase more how it works. My players pretty much just walked about and attacked things and there wasn't a lot of the augmentation and spell-casting that could have happened.

I am also eagerly awaiting the Starter, but I think that judicious application of the GM pack means that you don't need to wait.

I'm not a Glorantha rules expert, but I searched the PDF of the core book for all instances of intent and re-read the strike rank section. I'm also recalling what I've heard from veterans. All that combined, I don't think you are going to find an explicit statement that says this. There isn't one needed, IMO, anyway. The 5 SR rule is deliberately vague. The goal of Strike Rank is just to establish an order. And if you begin with a Statement of Intent that places you in an order, but then elect to do something different, it makes sense that the "something different" takes you "time" (measured as a simplified 5 SR to prepare. After your Statement of Intent, if you were to keep the intended action, you can go on any SR after your original one. I think it also important that SR matters much more if you are "engaged" versus not. That seems to be a key distinction.

I think Runequest is squiggier than what your expectations are suggesting. There is nothing wrong with that. But I also think that if you keep going as if the ruleset is more precisely defined than it is, you are just going to get frustrated. Let go. Maximum Game Fun. It's ok.

It seems pretty clear to me that while the mechanical effect of the damage are the same, the potential consequences of an impale and a slash are very different. Hence, the different subheadings. 

Runequest seems to be a game of combat nuance, and these rules are reflecting that. If combat nuance isn't someone's thing, I'm concerned that Runequest will just be an exercise in frustration for them. What frustrates some doesn't frustrate others and vice versa. There are games that have no nuance and games that have nuance. If you don't like nuance...

Now that said, I do have some editing stretches for the core book, as a new player. Most importantly, I think the book needed more cross-referencing. Most of the rules I've struggled with as a new player have been ones that are linked together, but not obviously elucidated to me in the text. Like why the connection between Runes and Weapons matters. I think it is IN there, but it wasn't obvious to me. It had to be pointed out by experienced players. (i.e. that you use Runes to augment specific weapon attacks.)

I sometimes lift names from the H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands book or just make up my own. Given that the Dreamlands seems to be crafted and influenced by Dream, I think that gives the Keeper total freedom to make whatever names they like.

I really think you would benefit from picking up H. P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands. It seems to be a bit more difficult to find now, but there is the PDF of 4th edition still available.

Spectacular.