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4 minutes ago, kr0p0s said:

Is the Magic Book, with its 3 systems of magic, covered by the ORC licence. And what about Advanced Sorcery and the other BRP books? Or is only the new rules set covered?

I am not from Chaosium, but AFAIK...

Currently the only book in their inventory that is covered by ORC is Basic Roleplaying: Universal Gaming Engine, that is to say the new comprehensive genre-less rulebook. As to other books in the future, that is up to Chaosium.

SDLeary

In the Not So Deep™ past there was a Middle-Earth conversion for Pendragon floating about the web. I was hoping that it was in the Downloads section here, but am not seeing it.

Anyone out there know if its still out there?

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2 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I'd rather just go with hit points, it is a stat that already exists, and mass plays a huge factor in resistance. Even if a 120 kg (265 lb) person is mostly fat, that fat will require more of a substance to work effectively. It also why you are going to need a lot more of a drug to take down a T-Rex than you would to drop a tiger. Way back some of us did up a poison table using the LD50 amount to get the quantity of a toxin required to get POT 10, and then adjusted the POT to the amount based on the SIZ table relationship.  So twice as much would be +8 POT, four times as much +16 POT and so on. 

Agreed. I was putting out a suggestion for those that want to use the difference as a detriment. Using HP, where Size is a benefit, really wouldn't do that.

SDLeary

Perhaps we need a new optional Attribute then, call it Health. 

• It could have a base value of CON
• If SIZ is higher than STR by 2? or more points, -1
• If SIZ is higher than STR by 5 or more points, -2

Health would replace CON for most current resistances.

SDLeary

1 hour ago, Stan Shinn said:

Asking about something my D&D players in my upcoming game are sure to want to know.

Can you split your move? For example, if you're behind the corner of a brick building in the middle of a gun fight, can you move 2m around the corner to see your enemy and shoot at them, then take the remainder of your movement and run back behind corner of the building (moving into full cover out of line of sight), all as part of your turn?

Thanks in advance for any insights on how to handle this! 🙂

 

It doesn't appear so. Attack (p.125) states "Your character can make an attack against a target on their DEX rank, in addition to moving up to 5 meters. Unless modified otherwise, this attack is performed at the full skill rating." There is an implication here of being able to move further with a penalty, but I see no table stating what those penalties would be

Engage (p.125) states that "An unengaged character can move up to 5 meters and make an attack and/or defensive action without penalty, engaging in combat." It appears that whether you can continue movement during that round will be up to your GM.

So movement before or during an attack; the attack itself ends the action. 

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3 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Having somebody who has higher Strength than Size could be because they are ripped, as you say, but if their Constitution is low then it either implies they have a very low immunity or some sort of genetic ailment which is a possibility, but also just because they happen to be short and stocky (and maybe easier to hide, for example). 

Or simply someone that could be described (in an old context at least, modern medicine would mitigate this somewhat) as "sickly"; or, perhaps they don't recover or heal as quickly as "normal people". It could certainly be described as something genetic; as a GM, if someone wanted to play that, I might give them a bennie of some type to offset. 

Anyway, if we want to continue the discussion on characteristic relationship, we might want to move it to another thread.

SDLeary

Tod from Tod's Workshop is at it again!

This time we have a National track and field Javelin thrower hurling a few of Tod's manufactured Pila. Up to and including a mail hauberk and a scutum!

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55 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Oh, and n=on that note does anyone know what the racial stats look like in Classic Fantasy? Are they like BRP, do they have different stats, or do they just use modifiers like +2 STR, +2 CON, -2 SIZ like D&D does (Early edtions of Stormbringer did that as well)..

They are die rolls tailored for the species. There is a special hight table for Demi-Humans, that states to treat SIZ as X lower for purposes of determining height (ex. Dwarves – Treat as 4 SIZ lower).

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9 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

The thing is fat weights less than muscle. 

In the real world the thing is that only so much of a person's body mass can be muscle; if someone weights 98 pounds, they can't have 150 pounds of muscle. Since muscles are what provide physical strength, Strength can only vary so much from a person's Size. STR 18 SIZ 18 is far more likely to happen in the real world than  STR 18 SIZ 8, although both are just as likely to happen in chargen.

 

Correct. In fact, this is the reason that STR cannot be increased beyond SIZ after character generation, unless using magic or superpowers. Impossible to enforce at character gen time though. 😉

14 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, SIZ that outstrips Strength would mean less muscle mass. Although there would be a minimum amount of muscle mass needed for a creature to be able to move and such.  THe same would be true for a normal person of a high gravity world. Say you had someone who had STR 10, SIZ 13. Put them on a planet with 4G of gravity and their weight would be four times that of normal for an effect SIZ of 29, which would make it much harder for the person to move about, or even breathe.

Yup... in fact see question below. Gravity, of course, introduces its own can of worms (we probably can't "live" in more than 2G for any length of time).

18 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, but the thinking is that someone who has a high SIZ and low STR is probably out of shape and thus their Health (and thus COnsitution) isn't what it could be. It's probably true, to a point, but most RPGs don't require PCs to work out to stay is shape, so it is probably moot.

Out of shape, and unhealthy, are (in some cases) actually proving to be different (though related) things. There are people who are overweight, though healthier than some that are ripped. This is the reason I don't intertwine things (Con at least) quite as much.

Now, somewhere I remember something (a call-out, spot rule, an article in fanzine, perhaps even a different game) that talked about a relationship of 1.5x. Rather than the current "highest of STR, SIZ, and CON", you could train STR up to 1.5 SIZ, you could raise or lower SIZ to the same multiple. CON had something in here too, though can't remember if it was subject to the same multiple. I thought it might have been Ringworld, but a glance at that reveals nothing. Does this sound familiar to you in any way?

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2 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

The main point is that Size has a contextual relationship with both Strength and Constitution. You read all three to get a sense of how a character is built. As I say, if you get a high Strength to low Size ratio then it tends to denote short and stocky to me. Like a Dwarf. However, short limbs also mean lack of leverage which can mean less applied force (DB) and a smaller frame (less HP unless Constitution is very high by contrast). A Size that outstrips Strength but maintaining a high Constitution would imply, to me, tall and lithe with a increased capacity for leverage (DB) and a bigger frame (more HP). 

Odd. For me, high Strength and low Size would denote to me someone bing quite ripped, with less "fat" as Size goes lower. I would only see Dwarf, which is more about distribution of the Strength and Size, if that was actually used as a descriptor. Same with Elf, which would also have a different distribution of said characteristics.

Size that outstrips Strength would simply mean to me less muscle mass, as Strength declines the person becomes more... pudgy (assuming a given Size). It implies (to me) nothing of distribution of the characteristics.

Constitution would only show, physically, as something along the lines of endurance (running distance, load carrying, and so on), or (perhaps)skin issues? Otherwise, Constitution is all internal; ability to absorb damage, heal, resist chemical and bio- toxins, and so on.

SDLeary

2 hours ago, D said:

i think it's in Shadows on the borderland, but I'm not near my books to check.

There is a table (p.49) that talks about different types of crystals. Three of the identified crystals are Flawed:

• Ink Stars – "The body of a character attuned to this crystal cannot die, though their spirit is divorced from their body at death as usual. The body behaves in many ways like a zombie, though it instinctively performs actions the body performed habitually in life, like walking, talking, or eating, though the actions are clumsy parodies of normal activities."
• Tien's Beard – "Resists being unattained; drains 2d6 MP during process." The description of this crystal states that it has cracks.
• Black Blood – "...Crystal that defies all attempts to attune it. This crystal is powerfully aligned to the rune of Chaos, and automatically detects as such to any Storm Bull. ..." Description states that they are used in enchantments of Vivamort sepulchers and Teen alter in Noway Canyon.

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9 hours ago, svensson said:

And something else occurs to me.

The final version of my take on Elmal is in the download section.

It's only been downloaded 3 times, and one of those was me as I checked the formatting.

So which two of you has seen my final copy? For those of you who haven't, may I suggest that you do so? There were some minor changes from the one here in the discussion.

It looks good to me. I might change skills a bit, perhap "Bow or Javelin".

I may have missed something though, how do you think he gains Motion?

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8 hours ago, Questbird said:

What's the difference between Skulduggery and Stealth?

Skulduggery is behavior and activities (grifting for instance).

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40 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

About flawed crystals in RQiG:

Looking at Weapons & Equipment p.119, or the earlier "Rune Metal & Magic Crystals":GM sourcebook preview PDF, and at the even older RQ2 crystal table p.108, and Plunder, CHA 4011, you can find  flawed crystals.

If an adventurer ties to attune this flawed crystal the crystal will have an undesirable effect.  Somewhere out there there is even a table of suggested flawed crystal effects, but I can't find it today. 

But anyway, one of these might give someone who tried to attune it, a chaotic feature - maybe an unobtrusive one.  if so,

In your view, would such a feature give the Adventurer a detectable chaos taint? 

Would it necessarily give a percentage  in the Chaos rune?

A Chaotic feature or taint... only if it's the blood of a Chaos god I would think. 

I would use other undesirable effects. Imagine that it creates a link that is constant. Once "attuned" not only does it accept MP stored in it... but it siphons one more point each period of time (hour, day, week) depending upon the severity of the flaw; regardless of its overall "capacity". This continues to build to, say, 2x or 3x capacity; then when the player tries to use it, it pops! Releasing all its MP at once, causing some additional issues.  😈

Mind you, the character never suspects any of this. They only notice that they are a bit "tired" more often, and for some reason never have enough MP to finish that spell they want to in that critical moment!

SDLeary

51 minutes ago, RHW said:

I did a full Elmal and an unnerfed Yelmalio for my house game years ago. Can post if anyone's interested. 

Love to see them both!

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4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Actually Jeff has explicitly said that is not the case. He's noted that Yelmalions include both heavy infantry and horse riders. The assumption of pike-wielders is from players based on the Sun County model and the training in 2H pike with shield. 

Correct. Note that in my comment above, I did state Hoplites and Phalangites, and those that support them (whom I didn't list but would include skirmishers and light cavalry). Even back in the RQ2 days they were described as organized in this way, though the skirmishers and light cavalry were generally described as allies, not as actual Sun Domers or Yelmalio followers.

SDLeary

Sorry, that's my fault. The conversation was talking about Sartar so I didn't qualify my comments.

9 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

One of the biggest Yelmalio cults among any playable group in the currently available material is in Prax among Impala Tribe, pygmy nomads. They are not hoplites by any stretch, given their stature they would probably struggle if placed in that role, but they clearly worship Yelmalio all the same. ...

I can't see anything that mentions the Impala are any less focused on Waha and Eiritha than any other tribe. Even in the Guide. Can you point me to the reference? Of course they would be focused on light cavalry. And if fighting along side the Domers, they would probably be in support of the phalanx. 

And, I agree! They (the Entity that is both Elmal and Yelmalio) would be worshipped differently (different customs and traditions) based on the culture. However, I don't see much of this difference described. Now I understand that a lot of this is probably lowering the barrier of entry for new recruits to RQ and Glorantha; but the differences should be mentioned somewhere for those of us that have been gaming in Glorantha for a long time. 

SDLeary

1 hour ago, hipsterinspace said:

... I don’t think Monrogh’s revelation is supposed to be that you have to be a hoplite who lives in a Sun Dome.

I think the conversion was once characterized "...our ways are better."

Based on what we know of Yelmalio Cult at the moment, that would mean a Hoplite/Phalangite, or someone that supports a Phalanx formation, whether they live at the temple, or is a farmer on the farmlands that surround the temple (as seems to be Jeff's interpretation at the moment). Thus, an independent corporate organization, rather than something that is well integrated into the Clan/Tribe.

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8 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

Elmal can be a seperate way to worship but not "...a cult that firmly believes that Yelmalio and Elmal are separate deities..." unless you're taking that extra step into variance which makes the 2 into distinct gods. 

Remember, this is not about the Entity, it's about how worshippers perceive the Entity. 

If, in your Glorantha, you want worshippers to understand that it is the same Entity, worshipped in a different way (which does introduce social and possibly political plot hooks); and you don't have Spirits of Reprisal come after either wholesale, that's fine!

In another Glorantha, worshippers could well perceive them as separate beings! As long as the Entity is getting the goods out of both (Worship), they probably don't care! IMO, this still provides social plot hooks, though not necessarily as many.

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13 hours ago, David Scott said:

Given the opposing natures of sorcery and spirit magic in RuneQuest, I'd say no. 

OK, so here is a question off the top. 

How about a Pact with the Ancestor; and perhaps calling on them when needed to cast said Sorcery?

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5 hours ago, Lordabdul said:

In my opinion (and for what that's worth!) that kind of stuff is already implied for all cults. The worship of, like, Humakt or Issaries in Ralios is bound to be very different from their worship in the Holy Country or in the Lunar Provinces. The temples and traditions and accoutrements and prayers and songs and stories and such will be very different. There's even published material establishing that some specific city or temple, here or there, are completely unique in their approach to their god (including the occasional using of a completely different name and/or availability of unique magic)

So no need to make new/separate cults in my opinion -- that actually makes gameplay more difficult and limited for the player, without allowing anything I couldn't do already.

Fair enough; YGWV.

The reason for the focus on Elmal (at the moment), is that in Sartar, this is an active attempt at replacement of one cult by another. The incoming cult is foreign, replacing the "traditional" vision of the entity in question. This would create social dynamics that are simply too good to pass up. 

Also, let's face it, humans have long memories. Look at our own world and some of the ancient differences which cause trouble today. Even WITH Mythical/Heroquesting support, the timeframe involved is much too short for the type of wholesale replacement that is being proposed.

I was hopeful when Greg revealed Elmal in Sartar, that we would in turn learn of other differences in the other areas of Glorantha (the gods as described never seemed to click quite right for me). Alas, the time was not there. 

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2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Positing Elmal as a totally different entity from Yelmalio creates all sorts of cosmological headaches. The easiest way of looking at Elmal is he is the abridged version of Yelmalio. Same with Kargzant. Same entity but not all is connected. Like the relationship between Orlanth Adventurous and Orlanth, Pole Star and Polaris or White Princess and Inora. 

 

It's not (for me at least) that Elmal is a different Entity, more that he has different cultural traditions and myths. Because of this, he will be worshipped in a differing way (though not a completely alien way).

For many of us, this type of lateral shift (due to culture), introduces many many avenues for additional social role-play.

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1 hour ago, g33k said:

But I expect only teasers of "playability" from the Cults books:  they're Cults books, not Homelands books.

True, but hopefully with some nuggets in there that explains how the Orlanth cult might differ in Ralios, the Janube, Umathela, and so on. Same with other cults/panthons

1 hour ago, g33k said:

hie thee to the Jonstown Compendium, young man!
There's some awesome expansion on those outside areas

Of course! Have a few of those already, and planning on more. They can certainly tide over. As can Dave Dunham's site which contains notes on his East Ralios campaign, notes from Sand's campaign log, and so on.

Though, things on screen are not as easy to read as they once were; eyes much prefer print these days. Chaosium really scored though with the layout of Rivers of London. Even on screen that was seriously easy on the eyes for me.

SDLeary

Also, everyone needs to remember that these are death numbers. Casualties are often several times higher. Your buddies lying in the mud, screaming in pain is often much more a motivator than those that are silent.

SDLeary

Information/traditions (in rules format of course) on areas outside of Prax and Sartar. 

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