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Algesan

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About Algesan

  • Rank
    Advanced Member

Converted

  • RPG Biography
    Pretty much anything from OD&D onwards through the 80s
  • Current games
    Variants of multiple genres using AD&D/OSRIC
  • Blurb
    I'm just here to do some research

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  1. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    I agree, I playtested a couple of their games and I liked what they did with them. What is interesting to me is that GF9 is apparently trying to develop a tabletop wargame for Dune, which would probably be a lot of fun or a botch job. I'd say they need to stick to pre-Paul (or pre-spice awakened Paul) for the timeline, otherwise you get weirding way trained Fremen splattering everyone OR wimped out Fremen. For example, a platoon of IG will slaughter a squad of SM in 40k tabletop, but a squad of SM will slaughter a platoon of IG in lore and the RPG. The reason for the tabletop problem is for "balance" and if SM were actually that tough, then GW couldn't sell as many minis for SM because lore accurate Marines would cost vastly more than they do.
  2. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Actually, given Tolkien's education, I'm fairly sure that "orc" comes from the Latin source because it made it into Old English as orc├żyrs, orcneas and Old English is just one of the sources Tolkien mentioned. In fact one word origin source comments that it was revived by Tolkien's writings after being discarded. Interesting point on the use of "goblin" in The Hobbit, from the timeframe of when it was published and when I first read it in 1967-68ish. I had some idea of what a goblin was, but would have been totally clueless about what an orc was. As for Tolkien's notes....yes, we can read some of the alternates that he wrote, discarded, revised, reused, etc., but they are a mess and apparently not totally explored. Remember that Christopher gave us an edited version that usually chose among multiple written versions by J.R.R. I'm actually not sure that anyone has actually finished going through all of his linguistic, let alone the literar,y notes. I was skipping the Christian nature of Tolkien's work for this discussion, but yes, to be complete it has to be acknowledged. as does the fact that it is more Roman Catholic that Protestant in its point of view.
  3. Algesan

    The Math behind Dice

    Heh, most dice are "good enough" for RPGs. The worst problem for dice rolling come from tabletop wargames where you roll buckets of dice and there are just too many ways to skew the results by dice modification when you are throwing handfuls of dice at a time. Assuming you don't have someone manipulating the dice by sleight of hand tricks. Then, of course, you have the hot rollers. No mods, no tricks, even make them roll in ways to beat the tricksters....and they still roll hot dice when they need it...."there is no spoon"...
  4. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Part of what makes it amusing is that elves, dwarves, halflings, fairies, pixies, brownies, goblins, leprechauns, etc. are quite possible different names for the same thing instead of the modern distinct "races" that are currently used. The different names are simply those used in different small areas, but probably related to the same source. Orcs are interesting and I think morphed through Tolkien's works. The word origin points more towards Ogres and comes from Orcus, a Roman diety of the underworld. This also makes more sense when you consider that Tolkien always linked his Ogres to giants in the sparse references and also that in the Hobbit, the party was captured by Goblins and the only mention there of Orcs was "the great Orcs" and gives the impression that they are bigger and nastier Goblins. IMO, he originally was just using a fancy name for ogres and then as time went on (and the idea of Orcs = corrupted Elves) he discarded the Goblins for the Orcs and ignored the entire issue.
  5. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    IIRC, a shield would have slowed it down, but in the small room, even trying to activate the shield would have drawn the attention of the operator and allowed for a strike. You are merely quibbling here and being purposefully obtuse by misinterpreting my sentences or clarifications. It isn't simple ignorance anymore after I've clarified several times to get past that issue with you, but you chose to disregard that and press on with this silliness. Okay, if you really, really, really, really just have to have LOTR & Dune be "unique", "singular" and super-duper-alley-ooper-special above all other things, then go right ahead. You win.
  6. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    A slow moving one
  7. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Sorry, I left that one out because I figured it was understood about fast kinetics. Specialty ranged weapons might affect it with poisons and "stunner pellets", but they are relatively slow, so would be very short ranged. Interestingly enough, even the Fremen tend not to use any sort of firearms (except suicide lasgunners perhaps, it is even part of the culture according to the books). On energy weapons, Dune only has lasers apparently, so the rest would be out of bounds. EDIT: Oh and I was talking about mainly adapting generic BRP to Dune, I'm not sure how that would vary your comment.
  8. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    No, you have totally missed the point and are barking up the wrong tree here. Simply, I never said that either work was generic. I CAN set up and run a LOTR setting from any generic fantasy game system though. I CAN set up and run a Dune setting from any generic SF game system. Understand now? No, their creations are unique, but not very "singular" and this is not the place to breakdown and discuss literary works at that level. Given the level of "mixing and matching from other sources" that I can point out (and already have a few as examples) that both authors' works include, why can they not be dissected for the actual unique parts and then use those to adapt to another platform that is more generic? I personally do not need any kind of officially licensed and paid for specific game system to run a campaign in either universe. In fact, I was running a ME campaign before ICE ever even had a hint out about MERP. My players thought it was lots of fun. Earlier than that I ran a basic paraphrase of The Hobbit for one of my first OD&D campaigns and, again, my players thought it was fun. So yes, at least in my case if not yours, I can handle both using a relevant generic game system. In fact, I'm currently running one using the Dust 1947 universe and that one has even less support (which actually can be useful in some ways) in background.
  9. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    BTW, for those who dislike Lynch's 1984 version, remember that Frank Herbert liked it as an interpretation of his novel. IIRC, it is in the introduction to the short story collection "Eye" and that one short bit of commentary by an author who worked closely with the director and producer about translating from a prose medium to an AV one. For example, most of the fighting scenes and the weirding modules...both are obvious ways to steer away from making a film Dune into the martial arts extravaganza that Mortal Kombat wanted to be, since that was not what the book was about. The "extended version" (four hours) puts in a lot of scenes that Herbert mentioned in his article, but I always wonder about his comment about there being six hours of film, half of it left on the cutting room floor.
  10. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Or give the shield an armor rating so that it pretty much blocks all damage from melee weapons, which means a critical or special hit is needed to affect those inside. Yes, nice and nasty there. Potentially allow a trainable only version of MA: Shield fighting to exist. Possibly add a Shield Fighting version of each weapon skill, which would mean someone trained to fight with shields may have a lower to hit chance in an unshielded fight (or simply start characters off as primarily shield or non-shield types and apply penalties that wear off after a while playing). I don't agree with Easy for parry/dodge, but perhaps a bonus to it, say +10/15/20 to base weapon skill for initial parry bonus? Don't agree with the medium/long weapon issue for several reasons, but the dodge/parry bonus (either numerical or by being Difficult) should counteract that. Given the last paragraph below, I'd say that only impaling type melee weapons are suitable ("a thrust of two inches in a vital area is generally fatal"), although "killing with the point lacks artistry", so maybe for formal duels disallow any MA (since virtually all historical knife/sword MA use the point heavily). Coherent weapons cause ~1kt blast (max). Interestingly enough, shields do act as inertial sinks for the wearer, so no huge kinetic effects would apply. However, since this involves radiating the energy out it could be possible for some kinds of large kinetic weapons to cause radioactive issues (although normal use vs most weapons are merely a temporary minor non-hazardous raising of the local background radiation). Note that this radiation goes outward and not inward (unless firing some kind of high kinetic energy device from inside a shield...= cooked user).
  11. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Sorry, I must have been unclear. Other than the specific bits that make them special and different for the purpose of the author's story, the major elements of both LOTR and Dune fit into the generic genres I've noted. Of course Tolkien did not write a copy of Homer's Odyssey, but one of the genres you can place both LOTR & the Odyssey are in that of the epic and they are both quests (or journeys), which is what I was intending to state. Both Tolkien and Frank Herbert borrowed heavily from multiple sources for their various books, this is true for all literature...heck, for everything. There is nothing new under the sun.
  12. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Thank you very much for that link. Quick scan looks like excellent layouts for a nice long run adventure.
  13. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    I know that, but my point was that Tolkien was writing an epic that has become the modern generic fantasy...and that what Tolkien was righting was merely a copy of older literature, for example, the Odyssey. I've run plenty of campaigns and played in many others that were all based on the same thing. Whether they were good or bad depended on the details, which is what differentiates LOTR from generic fantasy as well as Dune from generic space opera....
  14. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    It can also be found on Scribd, but that is another story....
  15. Algesan

    What price for Dune?

    Have you bothered to read OD&D and AD&D books? Played any MMORPGs? Yes, today Tolkien's races and basic settings are pretty much generic fantasy. You can pretty much define almost all dwarves, elves, halflings, goblins and orcs right out of the pages of the Hobbit and LOTR. Amusing since Tolkien created those divisions from English folklore and it can be argued that "the little people", dwarves and elves can ALL be considered different names for the same group of beings. Oh, shall we ever forget the Type VI demon? These are standard fantasy tropes you can find in all literature and games for the last few decades. Oh and the epic of a group that travels to finish a quest while meeting fantastical beings just happens to be several thousand years old.
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