frogspawner

Oy... Watch it, otherwise I might have to introduce cameos in future Glorantha books involving a poor unlucky froggy orientated character!

You wouldn't dare!

OK, my apologies, HeirophantX. (Excuse: It was just crying out to be said. A humourous allusion to lack of print-quality, and rules-quality, in previous Mongoose publications. Plus, you did ask for it!)

You may be interested to know that Mongoose RQ is not the same system as BRP (though perhaps becoming more similar due to the good efforts of Mr Nash and others). Trifletraxor created this forum as an alternative to the stifling, pro-Mongoose propaganda of their own site. You'll find some of that here, due to various interlopers generally on the Mongoose's payroll, but overall here we're much better balanced.

Big bug, fixing it now. No extensions where allowed by default...

Anyway, I've added: doc, docx, odt, pdf, rtf & txt.

Help me, what other extensions do we need?

What about the graphics ones, like jpeg and png ?

xls and ods - the microsoft XL and Open Office Calc extensions. Also, I was thinking of one day adding some sketchup files - the extension for those is .skp.

Plus we have at least one ODF currently. That's a thought - look through the existing downloads and see what extensions they have?

The links files in the download section should still be valid.

They are too. (Just found one and tested it). Phew!

So, I'm sorry, but it's quite lost.

How about restoring the latest pre-upgrade backup into your TEST area, dumping off anything after the latest date we now have into a text file, an posting that for peeps to mine and re-post if they think it vital? (Any mileage or interest in that, anyone?)

Am I crazy? It appears that the base % for weapon use is missing from my copy of RQ.

It sounds to me like you've bought a Mongoose product. (Is it MRQ2?) If so... yes, you are crazy.

OK here's a (new?) bug - couldn't upload a PDF file. (I was trying to replace the PDF version of rpgstarwizard's alien-generation one I uploaded the other day, which has been zapped).

The error message told me the file types I'm limited to uploading is:

I think my suggestion was "The Realm of Coronarea" (but I'm not totally sure).

Derivation:

Corona - glow around the sun, referencing the sun in Sky Mountain; also a synonym for "disk".

+ Area - synonym for "world"; also suggested in ironic(?) postings by tedopon/Rurik.

...Making it all a synonym for DiscWorld...

Realm - also a synonym for "world", but most importantly a reference to "The Realm", the world in Classic Fantasy.

Alternatively, or additionally as a name for a significant region, the "Land of Tzand" - a reference to the long-gone Tzandian Empire, of the Worlds of Wonder MagicWorld (a link with BRP's history).

Anyone remember anything else from the "Lost Fortnight" of postings?

Next step: test the Poll facilities...

Could you try accessing the CMS page again? There's one article there now, maybe that was the problem? Also, are everyone having this problem, or just a select group?

Still happ'nin' at "http://basicroleplaying.com/forum/". But I just changed my bookmark to "http://basicroleplaying.com/forum/forum.php" and all is well...

Just to let you know I just got 'Byron Alexander, you do not have permission to access this page' when I went to http://basicroleplaying.com/forum/ (which is the page I have bookmarked).

It isn't a big problem, I'm here obviously, I just clicked on the 'Forum' button and got to http://basicroleplaying.com/forum/forum.php

Ditto. Also using Chrome (obviously, I can't use IE anymore now our EuroMasters have told us not to...)

Ah ... everything posted over the last two weeks is gone ? :shocked:

I feel rust's pain on this one. He's posted an absolute shed-load of stuff for his SciFi setting - and it's been totally wiped.

Can it - and perhaps other stuff from the Lost Fortnight - be restored, please?

I'm also a little saddened the BRP QuickStart downloads count has been put back to 127-ish again. It was up to 357+ and going well. I also don't know if the new download is from the same URL as I have merrily been posting about various forums... will eager new potential BRP-players now just be getting broken link?

So what, exactly, are the differences between Mongoose's RQ; Basic Roleplaying supp (I have the book); something called "OpenQuest"; and GORE? :confused:

Hi Joela. You can judge for yourself - as well as Newt's OpenQuest, the MRQ1 SRD and GORE are available for free in the Downloads area. (I take it you mean you've got the big new BRP book with a mutant 'Vitruvian Man' on the cover, but otherwise the BRP QuickStart is there too).

Obviously most people around here should prefer BRP, including me. These are my reasons:

Mongoose's version is RuneQuest only in name, them having rented the rights to that trademark from Greg Stafford who had nabbed it before Chaosium got their act together. There are quite a few differences from old-time RQ, and not good ones either IMHO - initiative, opposed-roll combat, only-HP-per-location, feat-like Legendary Abilities, a form of experience points instead of skill-ticks, Resilience/Persistemce skills replacing POWx5 and CONx5, and initially cacked-up combat and magic systems (most of which making it more D&D-like). Worst, though, they introduced 'Runes' as magic objects that you had to kill their owners to take - forcing D&D-like behaviour that turned me right off. With the rules They have rights to '2nd age' Glorantha, but not the traditional 3rd-Age/Hero Wars era, and that doesn't interest me.

If you fancy it, though, I'd advise waiting for MRQ2 which looks like it may fix quite a few of those problems.

OpenQuest is based on MRQ1. It's free (or can be), it's out there, and Newt is a nice guy. (But it's still too MRQ-ish for me. Soz!)

GORE is apparently based on MRQ1 blended with Elric!, so is a bit more old-school. It pre-dates the new BRP, and people are a bit wary of it because it 'borrows' heavily from Elric!, but without Chaosium's permission (though it probably is, strictly speaking, legal).

The new BRP is a toolkit of options from CoC and Stormbringer/Elric and the old WorldsOfWonder BRP. But you can stitch together the options to make pretty-much old-school RQ (or a simplifuied version, as is my preference), though it does have a few quirks (like the opposed-roll combat, which is a personal bugbear of mine). But such things are easy to house-rule away...

Happy Christmas, all. Cheers!

... designed to teach the rules as it was run. The game master didn't even have to know how to play, he just sat the group at the table and started playing...

Doing it quick, playable and for several genres is the way to go. A solo adventure would be ideal for a "flier", a multiplayer one for a convention quickstart.

If I were to try to do a 1 page flyer (probably folded into an A5 booklet) I would take a very different approach of learning through trying. You are cold, tired and scared...

Lots of RPGs have used a "pick a path" adventure format. I think it would be a good intro for BRP too. ... As for trimming the rules, some suggestions: ...

Here is an 8 page mini rules set...

Plenty of good ideas - that's great! If anyone is inspired, please go for it (i.e. don't rely on me: I'm off for the hols with limited computer time/access, taking the kids to see their grannies - now Brum, next Kent). If we end up with with a range of different BRP Flyers - to suit different genres/audiences/tastes - then so much the better!

I like your draft, but it has a problem - it is a textbook example of what is called a "Bleiwüste" ("lead desert") over here, a very long text without any space (e.g. illustrations, etc.) for the eyes to recover from reading.

You're right, of course. But thanks! (Sigh, more space to find - and piccies...)

I am still not certain what the "transfer world" Demidov will connect to, but I think it will again be a somewhat modified version of Martin J. Dougherty's Far Avalon setting.

How would you feel about contributing your world & sector to the "SharedUniverse" project? (Which currently has nothing else but may or may not be deemed to be based on Nick's 'Gate Wardens' universe from Outpost 19, ultimately a variation of FutureWorld).

... Why don't you produce that flyer, ... in no more than two sides of A4 paper? ...

Can it be done? I don't know: let's see. Why don't a few of you have a go? I will gladly take this along to Eternal Con and Continuum and distribute it.

I accept the challenge. It's on my To Do list. (Firstly I'm doing a revised/ultralite version of my own homebrew, though.)

By the way, I shan't be offended if anyone else wants to take this on, and beats me to it...

Good luck Froggy!

If I were going to try a 2 page BRP Intro, I'd look very carefully at the original 16 page BRP booklet.

Thanks! And I will - in fact I have (way back on page 12)...

Well, my attempt at No.2 is attached: a revised version of the original BRP 16-page Introductory Guide, shoe-horned into 4 pages.

I'm hopeful there is still enough fat there that can be trimmed down to 2 pages. Obviously many things will have to be cut (like a char-sheet aready has). Any comments on how well/badly this succeeds would be helpful for the 2-pager... (I've attached it again - please see end-of-post).

I am not sure whether this is on topic, but I just remembered an interesting marketing action of the German publishers of Call of Cthulhu. They produced and printed a quick start booklet with the basic rules and a short introductory adventure and distributed it for free...

Was it this CoC QuickStart from Chaosium by any chance, or perhaps a translation? (Hmm, I note this CoC one is easy to download from their site, without a login - and even has a navigation bar link to it on their page headers... Why don't they do that for BRP, eh? :ohwell:)

Just chucking a few flyers onto a table though, won't work. I've spent a lot of time cleaning up after cons. You'd be staggered at how many flyers get used as drinks coasters, paper darts and so on, and don't make it any further.

Were those flyers doing much the same as we're talking about here? Any ideas where they went wrong?

Frogspawner, ... I genuinely admire your optimism and faith that such a simple approach will work. As an aside, can I ask how many conventions you've attended? Or how many game evenings at local game stores? Its a serious question; I'm interested in knowing.

Thanks. Only 1 or 2 Games Days many years ago, and a Fiasco II at the Royal Armouries a couple of years back. No shop-based Games Evenings that I can recall, ever. Probably just as well: "Mummy, if I play these games, will I end up like that silly man?"

If it can, then it becomes another tool in the 'Make BRP Popular' armoury, to complement the more detailed quickstart rules, and be something that can be swiftly and easily distributed through letterboxes, at cons, and even in the local pub/bar/tavern/nightclub.

I'm reminded of something Winston Churchill once said. He stood-up in parliament to make a speech and before he started it, he apologised for its length: he hadn't the time, he explained, to write a shorter one...

Exactly so. I shall do my best to "give us the tools"!

BRP_Introductory_Guide_SJW.pdf

But I wish you success with your blanket-flyers drop.

...

Also, what happens afterwards? How do these flyer-converts who've never played an RPG before get a game? Who runs it? How do they meet other players? How about dice?

By time they finish with the BRP Flyer they'd have had a game: a solo mini-adventure in the style of that on the original 16-page BRP Introductory Guide. Obviously space would be made on the BRP Flyer for a website address - probably this one (and maybe Chaosium's). So they could come here for all the advice they need. Other players? No reason to think they won't play it with the friends they already have. (So each one-in-100 could actually be a group of half-a-dozen new players...)

Dice though. Yes, that is a problem. Any ideas, anyone?

And surely it doesn't matter that you're 'preaching to the choir'? Surely we're aiming to make BRP more popular? Or don't existing roleplayers count for that much?

And yes, sure BRP is simple... but if you've never played a roleplaying game before, no matter how clear-cut you make that one/two page flyer, it won't come across that way.

Flyers can just as easily be distributed at Cons, to reach existing RPers. Even those without cash.

Anyone can role-play. And an ultra-lite introductory BRP can be made simple enough for anyone.

1. They probably know what a roleplaying game is: you don't need to expend energy teaching them first, or hope that they get the concept from a flyer.

2. They have some other system to compare it to: 'So, in Aftermath, you'd roll damage using the 4-page flowchart. In BRP, you just roll 2D6...' 'Sure your character can use magic. You don't need to be a Magic User. Sure you can multi-class - skills let you be what you want to be.

3. You can teach the rules properly, in situ, answer questions, demonstrate the options and the nuances. You can't do that with a flyer.

4. If at a con, and it has a trade stand, there's somewhere for them to buy the rules. If you're canny, find out who'll be trading beforehand, get in touch and tell 'em you'll be demoing BRP - perhaps they'd be sure to have a copy or three of the rules available; you'd be happy to puish custom their way.

5. You reach a small group but in a targeted way. Say there are two GMs at a 1 day con, running two sessions each designed for 4 - 6 players. That's potentially 24 people - roleplayers - who will, at the end of the 3-4 hour session (possibly sooner) be converts. They may well go home, armed with their copy of the Quickstart rules that you've brought along, and tell the other 4 people in their group: you've suddenly reached 96 people who could well be interested in buying the rules without having to wander around the streets dishing-out flyers.

6. At a demo game, you're part of a group; that helps you learn. Sitting at home, on your own, with your flyer, who do you turn to?

1. Teaching the concept of "a RolePlaying game" is not that hard. Say "You are a...", and it's done!

2. Our new players need never know there are such big, bad RPGs out there.

3. Good examples will help a lot, I'm sure.

4. If they've got a flyer, they've already got the rules... FREE.

5. I suspect GM-ing at a con is more effort than posting flyers. But there's no reason not to do both.

6. Sitting at home, on your own, with your flyer... you go see if your friends got it too, maybe they can figure it out... Or try that website... ...But it really should be easy enough without that!

Woo-hoo! I see BRP Central has just had it's "eleventy-first" download of the BRP QuickStart! And in only a week - an achievement due to this thread.

Personally, though, I think even that is over long. So could someone please point me at what Loz was referring to here...?

What's made CoC popular is as follows: ...

3. A trimmed-down version of BRP that can be contained on one side of a character sheet and is easy and fast to implement.

So we go back to the original question: what setting?

Well, the original thought behind this thread was perhaps that the BRP Book may be off-puttingly long. My suggested 'ultra-lite quick start' is therefore totally on-topic. Of course settings also help.

I think CF is as good a place to start as anywhere.

CF isn't really a setting, but it could be said to be set in MagicWorld (which really needs a better name...), because both are designed to be generic. MagicWorld itself has little detail, but if you then add the good ideas from SharedWorld... ta-DA!

And, for the SciFi fans, there's FutureWorld - as freshly revealed to us anew via Nick's in-print Outpost 19...

The problem seems to be, from my point of view at least, to get that material into a form that is accepted by roleplaying games shops.

So, is the "Call of Classic... (Fantasy, etc)" line looking a better option now?

You may also find the following link useful: http://www.hp.com/hho/smb_hp_create/media/downloads/pdf/How_NOT_to_Do_Direct_Marketing_Campaigns.pdf

Not particularly useful. It says "Direct marketing campaigns can be very effective... start by keeping it simple" - which I was thinking anyway - and the 3 'traps' they mention are not relevant. What would be useful is a link to...

3. A trimmed-down version of BRP that can be contained on one side of a character sheet and is easy and fast to implement.

...your approach is little better than unfocused mass-marketing; chances are that more flyers will end-up in the recycling bin than not. ... I think that most studies of direct mail marketing have shown that you typically get a less than 1% take-up

Well, I wouldn't say it's any better than 'unfocused mass-marketing' - because that's what it is ! And even 1% would be great.

But I'd hope for better from a stack of BRP Flyers dumped around the bars etc at Game Conventions, of course...

... the line "compatible with Call of Cthulhu" could well influence sales of BRP material over here.

On the other hand, BRP supplements like Rome ... the main problem here is probably to tell the potential customers that they do exist.

'Leveraging' the CoC line could be a good way to get shelf-space in FLGSs - though perhaps more subtly than my suggestion above!

Does anyone remember SJG's Men in Black? Or the Kult of Keepers? Or Mongoose Infantry? ...

Um, never heard of 'em, actually. (OK, I knew of the MIB RPG - from ebay - but presumed it was D20)

... These teams of GMs went all-out to take the different games, systems and settings to conventions, games nights and so on, run lots of different scenarios, all designed to show case the rules and offer a great gaming experience.

All that effort, and for what? At cons they're still only 'preaching to the choir', advertising to existing RPG players.

My preferred option is to make use of BRP's famous simplicity. Distil the rules into a one-or-two page introductory flyer - and give it away, anywhere and everywhere possible. Mail-shot your own street, and you might get a new gaming group on your doorstep!

BRP Central clearly has a whole stack of talent who can help facilitate this approach. I'd be happy to arrange for Continuum to have a dedicated BRP Demo slot, with a gaming area set aside, for a bunch of GMs who wanted to come along and do that demoing.

Very kind. I hope you have fun with that. Good Luck!

I'm sure Chaosium would offer some GM support if approached.

Just make sure they don't send this twat:

Ugh this is why i hate going to Gaming conventions. You people (fanboys) put way too much time into speculating whether or not something can or cannot work in a game. Its a game... ... You all are ridiculous. KUDOS GUYS!! HERES A THUMBS UP :thumb:

Nick

My opinion does not reflect the opinion of Chaosium, just my own.

I'm a bit leery of the "it's CoC without the Mythos" approach. While that might attract some CoC players, it will also alienate some CoC players who won't want to see their game "stripped down". Also, a strong emphasis on CoC will discourage those who dislike CoC.

I think BRP needs to be promoted on it's own merits.

Is there any reason not to try both approaches at once?

The fact is, for whatever reason, Call of Cthulhu is popular.

The question is how to make non-CoC BRP more popular.

Personally, I think that something like a 'CoC' approach would be best. I'm repeating myself now, I know, but I think that a 'complete' BRP fantasy rulebook (perhaps CF will be this) and a 'complete' BRP science-fiction rulebook -- both 'complete' in the same way that the core CoC rulebook is (i.e., self-sufficient for playing the game) -- is the way to go.

So BRP should be promoted as "the CoC without Cthulhu"? "Tired of going insane and being eaten by slimy tentacled horrors from beyond? Play BRP!" Maybe a range of genre-specific offerings, all named "Call Of..." something evoking their genre (and preferably beginning with C). Hmm, "Call of Classic Fantasy", and similar "Call of Classic ..."s, might fit the bill.

In support of combining MagicWorld with SharedWorld, it clearly has it's fans, as in this MagicWorld thread.

Well if you want, I can send you the sheet to try out. I could probably do with a few more playtesters.

That would be very kind of you. But I'm not sure when I'd get the chance to properly test them [your Spaceship Design rules]. Besides - why should I be so honoured, but others hereabouts miss out? Publish, and be... praised (I expect).

Now that SIZ table I really should put in the DL section. Several people seem to use that. What format? PDF or a spreadhseet?

Why not both?

But also: Download or Wiki? I remember your SIZ table being highly acclaimed, so I'd say it clearly deserves a place in the Wiki.

Though I don't really understand the criteria for putting things in one or the other. What's the difference? (If we put things in both places, though, we could run into versioning problems). The downside I see with the Wiki is the special formatting it needs; but it is better for collaborations, because it tracks changes.

PS: I suspect a sticky 'ideas' thread would just add to the confusion. Things get lost in long threads, and hopefully it would become long. We probably have all the areas we need already, if we can use them right.

I think I have a conversion lying around on my HD.

You have? Get it out and Whack it on the Wiki, please!

'role-player maturity' (oxymoron?)

It would be nice to have some optional components to play with though.

Exactly. Some, not many, have in the past criticized BRP for not having Ads/Disads. So it would be nice to be able to refute them. (Even if many, including me, are unlikely to use the system).

Which does not mean that you cannot write the list and put it on the wiki, of course.

...so please do, even if incomplete. I guess I'm just imagining the Wiki is too 'formal' for such works-in-progress. Go for it!

Conversion of skills from one system to the other is pretty straight forward. Conversion of the basic attributes is the puzzler. For example, Boot Hill's Strength is a combination of CoC's Strength and Size.

I shouldn't worry about it too much. I'd use STR = STR and SIZ = Body weight (in stone, i.e. lbs/14 or so).