frogspawner

Well, I'm letting the cat out of the bag here, but I've got something in the works to cover Spaceship Design in BRP. I've sent out a one-page design sheet...

The more I hear about this, and other SciFi stuff, the more I like it. It's even getting me, an inveterate fantasy fan*, interested in it...

(* as opposed to 'invertebrate fantasist')

I hate to say this... <naughty idea snipped>

Still, I guess it could be used as a play-testing prototype.

I can't help thinking both of these situations could be helped by having a less-formal Downloads or Wiki area, like I mentioned the other day.

Atgxtg should feel able to whack his not-quite-finished Spaceship Design system there, so we could all comment/playtest it.

LivingTriskele could put his Ads/Disads Conversion up there too with just their names (no copyright-infringing descriptions), and those of us with spare time could help out by typing-up original wordings for them.

Wouldn't that help us get things to make BRP more popular, more quickly?

I think we are coming to a consensus. :thumb:

Does anyone object?

...time passes...

...a whole week...!

I guess we DO have a consensus on this approach! Hurrah! :thumb:

---

Back to the other aspect of "Bringing It Together" (what, now how is settled)...

Discussions going on in other threads ( How could BRP be more popular, My set up for a Future*World inspired campaign) might lead to a SharedUniverse based on the old WorldsOfWonder FutureWorld.

If so, I think it would be somehow right also to include the (few) setting details of WoW MagicWorld into SharedWorld. Instantly, we'd have a world with not only great fresh ideas but also a long-established BRP pedigree...

Possibly, It would depend on how well those two could get along and decide what tings to sacrifice. Between the two it is an interesting setting, and one that lends itself to a sort of shared universe project.

Exactly - the basis for SharedUniverse. I realize it's a big thing to give up total control of your own creation. Which is why I've advocated a "similar parallels" approach for SharedWorld (where each contributor gets final say over what 'goes' in their version). And these could continue being separate parallels of FutureWorld, just like that.

But the ideal would be to have every contribution in the same universe.

One big problem I can see with retro-fitting DoorwaysInTheSky to GateWardens is this snippet I recently noticed about Outpost 19:

"In the setting, humanity lost earth to an out break of nanotechnology over a millennia ago..."

But it could fit, say, if DITS were the history of GW...

Nightshade, Nick? Your thoughts are obviously key.

Would it be a good thing to combine the creativity of Nightshade's version of FutureWorld here with Nick's Gate Wardens vision of it?

(And make it a framework that wondrous worlds like Rust's Pharos IV could fit into?)

There are various inconsistencies, but they could be ironed out... IF it's seen as a worthwhile exercise.

Finally, they may be spent to negate 3 points of damage per fate point instead of the other way around.

Mmmm, well, this would clearly make FPs into D&D-style HPs. And everyone having effectively +30hp (or more), on top of their double-normal-BRP 'Total Hit Points', might be a bit too much...

It occurs to me that all these fine ideas - Points-Buy Mechanics, Non-Con Hero Points, Spaceship Design Sytems - deserve a better fate than to be lost, then forgotten, in this now ludicrously over-long thread.

We should be able to type them up, even if just into very rough unfinished form, and publish them... somewhere. So others can appreciate and maybe enhance (or finish!) them.

But where is best? The downloads area seems more for finished articles (and doesn't invite modifications). The wiki is good for making mods, but putting stuff there seems a bit presumptuous. Could/should we have a "Works In Progress - Please Enhance" section in the wiki?

And when no longer 'In Progress', maybe they could go for publication in Uncounted Worlds #X? (Just like the good old days of White Dwarf...<sigh>)

Steve Perrin pretty much did so back with Superworld, his attempt at Champions. Player could spend Hero Points to buy up stats, skills and powers.

To turn that into a full "point-buy" method we could just...

I've started tinkering with one but it's a ton of work and I have many projects on the burners...

Well, I didn't think it should be very hard but I've never looked that closely at such things (happy with randomness!), so I expect I'm being overly simplistic.

But if you guys (and anyone else who cared to help) could get together on it... maybe LivingTriskele would be willing to put what he's got in the downloads, and go from there...?

PS: Or even use Rosen's !

... Atgxtg, will in fact bring about the end times upon attaining 2000 posts here on BRP Central.

If the End of the World is the cost of A's postings, then so be it. A price well worth paying for such gems! :thumb:

Conversely, if he wants to post only tripe from now on, then we can all perish proud that we died defending his Freedom so to do. :innocent:

Either way - bring it on!

1) All spells require a cast roll. In RQ2 spells that were opposed used to use the POW vs. POW roll inplace of the cast roll.

Technically, didn't you have to roll for every spell in RQ2, too? Because 96+ would fail. Meh, who cares...

Certainly RQ2 Defence was a bit broken. (In two ways: 1. Fiddly modifications of opponent's attacks rolls; 2. Runaway increase - the more you got, the more it made a difference, so the more you got...)

But rather than use RQ3 Dodge, which is an alternative to parrying, I allow a Defence roll in addition. (OK, it's yet another roll, slowing combat, but helps characters survive - answering a frequent criticism of RQ). And instead of increasing via ticks, I say Defence only goes up via points awarded by the GM - for proper heroic role-playing. (Lack of a reward-mechanism for which being my main criticism of RQ2).

Maybe with those house rules, RQ would be 'mythic' enough to have pleased Greg... Ah, what might have been. <sigh>

...BRP needs to be brought up to modernity's standards to compete. To do this it needs to be restructured so it has the option of being a point-buy system (like GURPS 4th Edition or Hero System), with modular balanced components and options. ... And for BRP to really compete with other multi-genre compatible game systems out there it needs to be hardbound with color artwork.

Good points. The hardback/colour art thing is probably beyond Chaosium's capabilities, sadly - but I faced the truth of what you say when I was in my FLGS the other day. But is there no-one around here who could work up a 'modern' point-buy system for BRP?

In my view the BRP science fiction flagship should have all the chapters expected of a good science fiction roleplaying game, for example starship construction, system and world design, and so on.

And someone who could create these things, too?

If I were to propose something in this brainstorming phase, according to my tastes, it would certainly be John Varley's Eight Worlds (a future history that runs very different from Hinleins's one). It was considered the most promising SF saga in the '80s, lots of prizes won. Maybe not today's piece of cake, but it would make a superb RPG.

Certainly it has interesting ideas. Most licensed settings seem to be more trouble than they're worth, though.

Personally, I think we'd need a lot more than Future World, even with O19 added. Future World... barely scratches the surface.

Mmm. There doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for FutureWorld. BUT... (see later).

(I'm being as non-specific as possible to avoid spoilers). ... I believe very much in the Gate Warden Universe - and whilst I also firmly believe it's a project whose future lies with Chaosium, I'm in no way waiting on them for anything. Dustin has expressed interest in a sequel / follow up to Outpost 19 and I had started something, but this year has been bloody hard both personally and at work...

Sorry to hear about your hard year. Understood about spoilers.

It seems to me the lack of enthusiasm for FutureWorld is an opportunity. We could make of it what we will. Or, rather, Nick - as the only author I know of who's published anything for it (?) in the last 25 years - you can make of it what you will. With some guidance from the guys here, perhaps...

What IS the relationship between the Gate Warden universe and FutureWorld setting, in your view? Is it the same place? Or a slightly-different (or vastly different) parallel? Is GW the future of FW? (Whatever you can tell us without spoilers would be great).

IMHO, the old FutureWorld was a stinker. (Let's politely forget the grossly stupid 'City of Wonder' bolt-on, but even so...) A Sci-Fi setting where everyone walks to the stars (via gates)?? Sci-Fi needs Starships. It's a no-brainer.

However the setting could be salvaged. I'd favour some sort of technological advance, that renders the gates obsolete (difficult) or somehow unusable, perhaps due to a cataclysm (hinted at in the setting already). (Obviously not because of "things from beyond", though ) Suddenly everyone would have to rediscover the (largely lost?) space-travel technology from the First Terran Empire.

But I notice O19 already has at least some proper space-travel - so, how does it tackle the problem?

I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread, but if the idea is to make BRP more popular by coming up with a flagship setting, I don't think it's going to work...

That's not all, no. In fact it's not even on the core shopping list, I now notice, which I'm taking to be...

So now we have:

1. More quality books on the shelves (not just monographs).

2. At least one of these should try to capture the cinematic market, but we shouldn't abandon the gritty core, either.

3. Produce a much lighter version of the quickstart to hand out.

4. Make the quickstart rules available in more places (Drivethru, etc.)

5. Produce a few little primers on how to use the BRP book and its options to emulate the game you want to run.

Did I miss any? Are there any more?

... and #6. The BRP Bikini Babes, of course.

Of those, #4 is done, or now do-able by anyone who cares to post links with the downloads area.

I guess discussion of settings could qualify under #1. (Though maybe the SciFi discussion should go down into the Settings or SharedWorld sub-forum - but would anyone follow it there?)

Personally, I think we'd need a lot more than Future World...

I agree. In my view the BRP science fiction flagship should have all the chapters expected of a good science fiction roleplaying game, for example starship construction, system and world design, and so on.

Naturally. What I was really asking was whether you guys sufficiently like the few details that are given about the WoW/FW setting, to think it's worth (anyone) developing it further...

Nick apparently thought well enough of it to base Outpost19 there, and Rosen likes that, so... ...could it be the speck-of-dirt that, snowflake-like, a whole amazing universe can be built around?

Outpost 19 could be evolved into a very good setting.

...the setting makes reference to some elements from the original Future*World (albeit IIRC only the Quertzl and Sauriki are in O19) and I always conceived of it as playing in / with "their" setting. I have other SF ideas that, if I ever have the time, I'd like to develop and which could go in a number of directions (both conceptually and publishing-wise): but the Gate Warden's I see as a Chaosium thing.

So, any of you SF-fans think the WorldsOfWonder FutureWorld, with added Outpost 19, would be good to develop into a Flagship BRP setting?

Having now read the WoW/FW stuff I have my own opinion, but I'm not into SF, so what do I know?

(BTW, "the Quertzl and Sauriki are in O19", Nick? How? Intriguing...)

It seems that Chaosium had both the "longest" (Moorcock) and the "shortest" (Niven) literary license of all roleplaying games companies.

What was the problem with Niven, please remind me?

Apologies for ranting. ... Thanks, all.

No need. On the contrary - Thank You! That was spot-on.

Individual GM's can, and will, do whatever they like with O19 and it's setting - but I have (mostly in my head alas) a fairly clear vision of what it includes and Lovecraftian horror is not on that list.

Absolutely fine, of course. Keeping one eye on making it easy for GM's with plasticine-tendencies to run that other already-published stuff might be friendly, tho'. (Chaosium being your publisher of choice, and all).

"Soft" Space Opera? Psi-powers, FTL starships and communication, multiple off Earth human societies that are all fairly recognisable, tech that despite being from millennia in to the future is remarkably familiar but not quite "now"? Oh yes, O19 fits the broad outlines of the genre... Quite deliberately. ...the setting makes reference to some elements from the original Future*World (albeit IIRC only the Quertzl and Sauriki are in O19)...

Nice. But can the universe have a better name than "Future*World", please?

Any of you SF-fans out there feel able to help in developing that?

Ah ... Frankish crusaders on robot horses fighting Muslim aliens in orbit ?

If you like. It's basically been done before - The High Crusade. Poul Anderson, wasn't it? And the C.Rising setting has a Holy Islamic Republic as one of Earth's great powers, leaving the door open to "Jihad In Space" - which itself has fine precedent (Dune).

But SF isn't my genre - so I'll leave such details to others...

Conversion from OQ to BRP is semi-automatic. I do not think different editions are needed. In any case, we are looking for a "Flagship" sci-fi product for BRP, not for "Yet-another-version-of-a-good-setting-that-spans-several-systems".

My personal vote is for expanding Outpost 19.

OK. I'd rather not give up on retro-fitting Rising with Outpost and the others quite so easily, though. Isn't an existing body of published work worth salvaging?

Of course, the flagship needs to be named. How about "BRP: Outre Space" ?

(Outre's 'e' being accented or not, depending on the amount of slime in that particular volume...)

It does beg the question, then, as to what is 'proper' Glorantha. ... Only material you're interested in?

Yes, that's the best definition. But remember the onus in on authors to engage that interest.

As to the newly-made-up 2nd Age stuff, Greg produced a comprehensive set of notes... There's been a great deal of fresh material added...

I'm sure you all work very hard.

But saying that something is 'clearly still not the true Glorantha setting' presupposes that there's a single, solid, unchanging version of Glorantha out there; that one, definitive book, box, game or article that fixes, forever, the nature of the setting. If there is, please point me in its direction and I'll happily cleave to that forevermore.

RQ2. The real one.

Mind you, that Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes does look interesting... (Though 50 quid plus for something with text on one of it's sample pages I know I've bought somewhere before is a bit steep. Pity it's for that daft HQ system, too.)

But keep working - you may yet get there!

Outpost 19 is very much NOT intended to have a Cthulhu element...

Sure? That might be barrier to expanding O19 into a full-blown setting, since such things do tend to creep in.

...and reconciling it's very-limited and inimical to complex organic life FTL ships but ubiquitous gates with the FTL set up in CR would be problematic, to say the least...

Really? Couldn't different Corps just have different technologies? CR's F-Drive is likely tainted by the mythos - maybe some Companies have scruples against using it... ( As if!)

That would be the River of Heaven hard SF setting John and others are developing - I had a brief involvement early on and it looks very exciting (I believe John is planning an OQ version and Newt will also be doing a HeroQuest 2 adaptation) but it was, last I knew, definitely hard SF.

So... he's moving on to new SF setting? So will he leave the C.Rising setting to CoC/BRP?

And anyway, why couldn't RoH span a third system - BRP?

And, fond though I am of CR, it's really not "soft" Space Opera...

Well, is Outpost19?

Back-tracking? :confused: Is that all the thanks I get for including a frog totem in the article... Yes, I did have you in mind when I wrote that part.

'Expectation Management', mate. And think: "It made me quite enthusiastic. ... Loz/Pete seem to have done good things with combat manoeuvres and the various types of magic, though." - that's me, about MRQ! :shocked: Another achievement for you to be proud of. Oh, and... Thanks!

Please understand him, Pete. Having your players hide in the restroom hoping for you to just give up rolling any damage at all can be frustrating.

I foresee the solution more in colostomy bags. Can't be far off, now... :eek:

There are alot of gamers out there who are not interested in the Cthulhu line of rpgs...

True, of course. Including me! (up to now)

Indeed. There are now several "Cthulhu SF" titles (End Time, Once Men, Rising + Jovian Nightmares), but they remain "below the radar" of most BRP science fiction players because of their connection with Cthulhu.

Any chance of reconciling all those (plus Outpost 19?) into ONE setting, that's basically non-Cthulhoid 'pure' SciFi?

I fell in love with Glorantha, Prax/Pavis, and RQ2 in the early 80's... Should I be interested in this MRQ2?

Have you seen the preview...?

Signs & Portents 75 with the Runequest II preview by Lawrence Whitaker can now be downloaded from the Mongoose website:

Mongoose Publishing : <lie snipped>

It made me quite enthusiastic. But now they seem to be back-tracking somewhat and it may not be the return to a more RQ2-style combat that I had hoped for, after all. Loz/Pete seem to have done good things with combat manoeuvres and the various types of magic, though.

However, it's clearly still not the true Glorantha setting, just the newly-made-up "2nd Age" stuff. But then, even the HeroWars/Quest "3rd Age" stuff isn't proper Glorantha anymore, either... ;-(

There is already a really good BRP... well technically Cthulhu... SF setting out there, if Chaosium only takes the chance.

Cthulhu Rising

It looks a decent, workmanlike effort - and well supported with adventures. And Cthulhu-optional. (Mind you, what campaign of any genre doesn't have something Cthulhoid in it?) With the added advantage of the "Cthulhu" name-tag, to 'leverage' access to that all-important FLGS shelf-space...

Right, that's the SciFi settled then. :thumb:

So the rest of us can concentrate on "Classic Apocalypse" ...or perhaps "Cthulhu Apocalypse" (for more shelving)? Now that IS a thought... maybe it should be a mythos-related apocalypse (instead of nuclear/global warming). After all, if any of your save-the-world CoC adventures actually fails, what do you play next?

Much as I'd like to, I'm fully committed...

I meant Mr Leary (threedeesix) - he owns the "Classic..." franchise, after all! (Soz for not being clearer).

(PS: Nice to know you've got more, doubtless good, stuff coming, tho'!)