frogspawner

Well, I'd rather give newbies 4 pages instead of 48... (and preferably only 2!)

(bunny-ears mine) Oooo - I'm an "ardent purist"! Thanks, chaps! ("MRQ2" it remains to me, though, for anti-confusion purposes. But I'll drop the trailing "E", in honour of Loz/Pete's sterling work). And it's like they wrote that preview for me, personally - it's even got "primitives venerating their ancestral frog totem" ! O M G ! :shocked: It looks like they've cracked it. Sounds as if they've fixed Magic and done some good things with it - but that was expected. They've repackaged the Feats, sorry 'Legendary Abilities', as reasonable rewards for HeroQuesting. They've done some stuff with combat manouevres that they're proud of and could also be good - we shall see. However, the big one is this: For combat at least, Opposed Rolls are GONE! :thumb: I've long thought myself a Mongoose-o-phobe, with an unspoken oath to never buy any of their product. But this is "Damascus Road II" ...I'm converted. Exactly when is it coming out, and where's my chequebook? :innocent:

That's sad. Maybe we could get SharedWorld up-and-running again, and generate some product for 'The Collective'...? Pray tell, what was so bad about Daughters of Darkness, then? I never saw it. Well, my attempt at No.2 is attached: a revised version of the original BRP 16-page Introductory Guide, shoe-horned into 4 pages. Not sure if it's really what's required, but it seems a good start. (And I'm not too hot on the new BRP RAW, so if anyone spots problems... you know what to do! ) BRP_Introductory_Guide_SJW.pdf

To me this sounds like bad news, I'm afraid. Things were much more hopeful when The Green was part of SharedWorld - but now that project (to create our own setting) seems to have stalled. Chaosium will not give it that help. Can't you get it 'back', so some of the undoubted talent around here can brush it up? (And then maybe also publish it...? >:-> )

Well, when you are allowed to talk about it, please remember that the names RQII and RQ2 are already in common usage for, er, RuneQuest 2. Your new patched version of MRQ should be labelled differently, to avoid confusion - I favour calling it "MRQ2E". Is that OK? Um, so you think that for monsters published with Hit Locations and Total HPs (and perhaps DEX and SRs), it would be ?harder? to ignore some details when using them in simpler systems, than it would be to re-calculate such things and edit them back into simpler-designed monsters used in the more detailed system?? 'Cos I don't think so! ;)

Minus some waffle, the pictures, and the (rather nice) examples and scenario. It still weighs in at 9 pages, though. Some more trimming to do! (Losing the profanity would be a good start). Nice. Or even shorter...? "Like CoC, only for the sane." (The newbie couldn't play from either of those, though).

Go for it! (I'm currently doing one for my own 'unique gift & baby' version, and might mod it for straight BRP thereafter - if you haven't beaten me to it...) And very good it is, too (being extracts from the original 16-page BRP pamphlet). But it is for the old not the new BRP. How about updating it? (And maybe shoe-horning in Magic, in place of the waffly bits about stats and weaponry?

Oh dear, I was complaining again, wasn't I? More constructively: If we* came up with a 2-page or so BRP 'Ultra-Quick Start' then we could each print off a hundred or so and post them through people's letter-boxes like pizza flyers. (48 pages is too many for that, even with access to a works printer... ) (* It'd better be one of us, if Chaosium have 'some reason' why they don't want to publish stuff... ) But thanks for giving us a title for this publication: "Beware of the Leopard"!

I know what you mean. Would there be any problem if those of us with spare webspace put up copies of the BRP Quick Start pdf ? (And others link to them in relevant forums they visit?) I don't see that there would, given that it's free... (Though, to my mind, even those 'lite' rules should be a lot lighter. I mean, 48 pages? Original BRP plus WoW Magic World fitted into 32...)

So Newt should leave OpenQuest as based on MRQ1E, a system that even it's own publisher no longer believes in? Not a pleasant option. Nat20's best advised to stick with BRP's Classic Fantasy then. Not only are Chaosium much friendlier but also it's author has even offered to collaborate! What more could you want?

Of course, but it IS a drawback for NaturalTwenty, who probably won't want to have to update his adventure after OQ is revised to the forthcoming MRQ2E. But the main problem is the MRQ/OQ inferior rules-set.

Um, the rules aren't as good? And, being derived from MRQ1e, they render it out-of-date when they publish a "Mongoose 2E"...

Yes, I do mean the criticism should be constructive. And it'd be nice if the tone could be optimistic/positive too. (For example, the old thread's title really bothered me!) Immediately breaking my own positivity 'rule', the biggest criticism I have is the old saw about opposed rolls (which I don't like). Virtually everything else in the new BRP has toolbox-style options - which is fine by me (being a GM) - but RAW combat has to use that darned OR mechanism, curse it! That's a big change from any other BRP-based system I know about (RQ2/3, CoC, OBRP) - so why introduce it? And why is there no alternative? The only positive thing I can think of about this is that the combat rules section is quite hard to follow, so people won't necessarily realize that's what's meant... And the book's so thick my players probably won't ever read it closely enough to know I'm not playing it like that... OK, now that's out of the way - the only way is up!

I agree there's plenty to criticize in the new BRP but I've been holding it back because I wonder: Could we keep the criticism positive? And what do you mean by "balance" (and the other terms)?

Shall we continue this in a new thread, rather than this long-dead zombie?

This should probably be a new thread, rather than a Zombie... (Copied from Why is BRP not that popular...?)

Yes - thanks to all, it's been very interesting and useful. It struck me at one point that the "Parry All" method is tied to the Opposed Rolls combat resolution mechanism, for good or ill. Also, the mechanism you use need only be detailed enough to seem realistic to you. I hope the guys who do melee for real haven't doomed themselves to dissatisfaction with any system. For me, taking up my weapons (dice) and doing separate attacks/parries makes it feel real enough (as for the rest, just keep it simple...).

For me, Questing for such 'combat techniques' would make them seem too much like magic (which, though very RuneQuesty, we're trying to avoid, right?). I give one per 10% Martial Arts skill - but I'm mean, and only let MA increase 1% per time. And what are they? That Other Game's Feats translated and crudely bolted-on, of course...

True. 'Special combat techniques' then? (I just didn't like to call them 'Feats'... ) Whatever you call them, such things could help the mage/non-mage balance.

Absolutely. Same here!

Recovery from injuries can be sped-up by generous use of Medicine skill, and maybe Knowledge(Herbs) - if you use MERP/Rolemaster-style healing herbs. They could even get around the Lethality problem too, if you allow some of the more high-powered ("life-keeping/-giving") ones... If the non-mage characters get bored, and don't want to be herbalists, you could introduce some fancy ki-type abilities for them, perhaps related to Martial Arts... which obviously wouldn't be taught to dodgy sorceror characters.

Seconds out! Round One - Ding-ding!

That's great news! Someone actually cares enough to make things right!

It's useful to tell other potential buyers what they'd be getting. (We shouldn't only give universally good reviews, should we?) It's also useful to be able to vent spleen sometimes. At least it shows this forum isn't a mindlessly pro-Chaosium 'House Organ', like White Dwarf magazine degenerated into for GW at the end of the Good Old Days of roleplaying... Yes, it's sad that the Great Old Ones of RP are now leaving us. So let's try to be positive, and do the best we can for gaming. Chaosium could fix the problem by adding a ToC & Index into the PDF version, and put them up as a Free Download (like they have with the 'Beyond the Mountains of Madness' ToC). Has anyone who's in touch with them asked for that? If so, what did they say? (If they won't do it, maybe Rod/threedeesix could? I see from the sub-forum Tedopon is working on some-such.)

Well, that's good. Let's hope not too many potential converts from xD&Dx to BRP are put off by Krank & Co's incompetence as publishers... (I mean, missing off the Table of Contents and Index! How could they!? What the heck do they do??) Seriously, Chaosium once again appear to be BRP's worst enemy. Budding authors would be best advised NOT to trust their lovingly-crafted masterpieces to those clowns.