frogspawner

Anyway, giving extra parries at 31%, 61%, 91% etc seems an awful kludge. Remind me, please - what problem is that supposed to solve? Isn't there a better way?

Ok, at least here is a link to it on Flickr

Classic Fantasy "Red Box" | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I'm sorry, but the mis-spelling of "mediaeval" totally ruins it for me.

You might want to look here:

rqgods

Now that stuff is really interesting, and looks very well-done.

But... it forces me to the realization that just using the standard RQ spells in Greyhawk makes it not seem like Greyhawk anymore.

To my mind, that setting requires D&D-like spells. So Classic Fantasy is probably the best way to go.

Another, separate, suggestion that might help cope with the large number of different gods is to set up cleric sects that are generic, not tied to particular gods. Then gods can be assigned to the most appropriate. That means you only have to define the spells etc for about a dozen sects, not a hundred gods! (Sadly, that isn't very 'Greyhawk-y', either...)

...but you don't have to be in the same LOCATION.

A drawback of PbP games is that it is more convenient unless you are having to wait for other players to post.

@frogspawner: play by forum eliminates both annoyances, but it also takes away elements that are a relevant part of the fun for someone. As such, it is not for everyone. Online play is not for everyone, either, but it preserves more of the aspects of TT playing, so it has a wider audience.

Sure. They're not alternatives. My bunch get our weekly FTF, and PBP supplements that - VTT is too much of a compromise to bother with, by comparison. But for those who can't get (enough) FTF, the VTT experience would have the edge over PBP certainly (once technical problems are solved). [TLA overload? ]

"Being there at the same time" is the same inconvenience that tabletop gaming has, and it has never stopped us from playing. It does, however, eliminate the need to be there at the same place.

Indeed. But forum/email play eliminates both such onerous requirements.

The VTT sort of sub-WoW gaming still has the problem that you need everyone to get online at the same time. I think a mainly text-based play-by-posting style via a forum or email is much more convenient.

@frogspawner

Those are hilarious. Well done. One of my friends ran a 2e AD&D game for years that had a crit chart like that. Takes me back.

...to a dozen or so characters who were killed or maimed horribly due to random dice. Good times.

Cheers. Good times is what it's all about. I think the chart is a practical help too, though. Important to note it doesn't kill - just interprets & explains damage already taken. And RQ/BRP is famous for comedy maimings!

I'm attempting to start-up a PBeM using a variant of EnGarde. That has a duelling system where players give a sequence of combat moves (Slash, Cut, Jump, Parry...), which cross-reference with the opponents moves to determine results. I've done a prog that blends BRP % combat with that, and generates descriptions. I'm hoping that will be enough player-input for combat, so it can be handled without bogging-down the narrative.

By radical I mean that it doesn't follow the usual success levels, although it could be modified to do so. It uses the tens digit (with modifiers) as the result/effect/damage/etc. A failed roll is result/effect zero. Specials and critical get a modifier to the effect.

It's simple to work out, easy, fast, eliminates some secondary rolls, but is a significant change from standard BRP.

I've been working on a variant system that uses this idea/mechanic to handle everything.

OK, then it's probably not for me - I still haven't given up hope of finding some variation of the standard BRP system that'll do the job.

But don't be afraid to publish! If everyone hates it, you can say it was my idea...

I have a method for handling this [Hide v Spot etc] but its a bit of a radical departure from the rules as written.

Heavens preserve us from anything... "radical" !!! <succumbs to attack of the vapours>

Right. But how do you exactly determine that a character is pinned? Does every equal level of success or failure means that the sneaker is pinned?

Suggestions welcomed! As stated earlier, I haven't yet worked out that much of the method satisfactorily. But at least the principle of Independent rolling is now established!

Think seeing movement out of the corner of your eye, but turning and finding nothing there. This could also have the side effect of "pinning down" the Sneaky One so that they can't move closer to their intended goal...

Exactly.

Yes, that is why I never use this rule of reducing or improving the levels of success... But outside of combats, it is useless.

Glad to hear it!

Except during combats, of course, where you have to roll damage and, so, to know what you will exactly roll: critical damage, special success damage or normal damage. The combat chart handle that very well.

No offense guys, but you are over thinking this issue. Just use Arthur Reyes's chart...

For me, charts get in the way and spoil the feeling of "immediacy". Effects of Crit/Spec/Normal hits can be defined independently of Parry/Dodge counter-effects. So every player knows what he's done as soon as he himself has rolled. I don't play RQ/BRP to end up playing MERP.

But sometimes, the opposition takes place in the middle of a combat, with a lot of other rolls to do... it becomes boring.

But combat is very time-critical: if the Sneaker gets 'pinned' for even just one round, that may spell death for his hard-pressed chum in the melee!

Imagine this with 4 people...

Oh, I know very well that the "multiple spotters" problem is another aspect that hasn't been properly solved - yet. But I think that's a separate issue.

But isn't that down to the GM, to decide when it is and isn't appropriate?

Of course, but above that the GM decides which system is appropriate. I think it's easier to have a system of Independent Rolls (which could be combined fairly easily, if a short-cut seemed appropriate). A system of Opposed Rolls is harder to disentangle into separate effects. So IRs give the GM more choice. (Although personally, I'd prefer IRs in every case I can imagine). PS: Bought marshmallows today.

But in a game of hide and seek, there is always a winner...

Combat isn't decided by just one roll on each side (necessarily) - so why should Hide-and-Seek contests be decided more quickly? I think thiefly-types are short-changed by that. They should be able to enjoy dramatic nuances similar to combat ("It's looking this way now... better freeze!" etc). Also, multiple rolls makes sneaking less 'chancy' for the higher-skilled - improving thiefly life-expectancies...

Stealth vs Listen or Hide vs Spot are two good examples...

[Opposed Rolling] doesn't prevent you to begin with an interpretation of the rolls as if it was ordinary actions.

One guy Specials Hide and says "I've hidden really well". T'other guy ordinary-succeeds Spot - so he didn't quite look hard enough to see someone hidden really well. That's fine.

But under O.R. it means the first guy *didn't* hide 'really well' - because the other's roll would downgrade the Special to a mere Success. To me, that feels wrong (and incidentally violates causality). And the feeling is important.

Also - Draws Happen. Opposed Rolling seems driven by an unnecessary urge to find an outright "Winner" - more often than is desirable or realistic.

Then, the success of one means the failure of the other.

OK, but aside from ones covered by STRvSTR, POWvPOW etc, I can't know of any right now. Examples, please? But even then, I'll almost certainly prefer to Keep It Simple than get into OR confusions.

What I really like with the Basic System is the fact that each die roll can be interpreted for what it is before determining who won: critical success, special success, ordinary success, ordinary failure or fumble...

Absolutely. To me though, Opposed Rolling spoils that.

Opposed Rolls : I oppose them.

Never use 'em - they're unnecessary & confusing. As we see from this thread, they can be interpreted in so many different ways. Not at all helpful, especially for beginners.

My big complaint with this BRP version is that it introduces opposed rolling for combat (with that Attack/Defence Matrix) and (despite so many options for other things) it's not optional.

Each individual skill roll should have independently defined effects.

(The effects of Hide & Spot are a separate issue - a tricky problem in itself, for which I admit I don't have a very good answer. Instead of working on that real problem, I usually get distracted by this Opposed Roll v Independent Roll debate!)

Couldn't find the wiki anymore (and a previous posting is unreadable due to the new site s/w) so here's what I use currently...

SERIOUS & GRIEVOUS INJURIES TABLE

Characters struck down to -4HP or less suffer a Serious Injury, or a Grievous Injury if struck down to -7HP or less.

Consult this table, rolling D6 and cross-referencing hit location (S=Serious, G=Grievous):

HEAD

1. Chin S: Jaw broken [level 5]: lose/break d20 teeth, -1 CHA. G: Spurt! Spurt! Spurt! Carotid artery slashed: bleed 1hp/sec (light).

2. Nose S: Nose broken [level 2]: lose 1 CHA. G: Nose broken and brain damaged: lose 3 lots of d6 INT/WIS/DEX.

3. Skull S: Skull fractured [level 4]: concussion (amnesia, fainting, etc). G: Skull broken [level 10]: coma until 'Rest' period complete.

4. Ear (L/R) S: Ear sliced/ripped off: deafened on that side. G: ...and skull broken (see above).

5. Eye (L/R) S: Eye blinded. G: Eye destroyed (50% for other eye, too) and skull fractured (above).

6. Neck S: It's a bleeder! Jugular vein pierced: bleed 1hp/rnd (light). G: Neck severed/broken: bleed/choke 1hp/sec until dead (critical!).

CHEST

1. Liver S: Ribs broken (d6): see below. G: Liver failure [level 3]: bleed 1hp/hour (serious). Survivors lose d3 CON.

2. Lungs S: Ribs broken (d6): see below. G: Lung punctured [level 3]: bleed 1hp/turn (light). Survivors lose 1 CON.

3,4. Ribs S: Ribs broken (d6): movement painful (half walking speed, max.) [level 2]. G: Ribcage smashed [level 8]: never mends.

5. Shoulder S: Collarbone broken [level 2]. G: Arm severed at shoulder: bleed 1hp/rnd for 10mins (R serious/L critical).

6. Heart S: Ribs broken (d6): see below. G: Heart punctured [level 4]: bleed 1hp/sec (critical). Survivors lose d6 CON.

ABDOMEN

1. Groin S: "Ouch!" Genitals damaged: bleed 1hp/min for 3 mins. G: "What a rip off!" Genitals lost: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins [level 4].

2. Hip (L/R) S: Hip broken [level 9]: permanent limp, move reduced by 1". G: Pelvis shattered [level 10]: crippled permanently.

3,4. Guts S: Intestinal damage: bleed 1hp/min for 10 mins [level 4]. G: Eviscerated: bleed 1hp/turn [level 6]. Lose d3 STR & CON.

5. Stomach S: Stomach punctured: bleed 1hp/hour [level 4]. G: Stomach ruptured: bleed 1hp/turn [level 6].

6. Kidneys S: Kidney damage: bleed 1hp/min for 10 mins [level 4]. G: Kidney failure - bleed 1hp/turn (serious). Lose d3 CON.

ARM

1. Hand S: Fingers sliced/ripped off (d4). G: Fingers lost and hand smashed [level 6] - permanently useless.

2. Wrist S: Wrist broken [level 4]. G: Hand severed at wrist - bleed 1hp/min for 1 min* (light).

3,4. Forearm S: Forearm broken [level 4]. G: Forearm severed - bleed 1hp/min for 3 min* (light).

5. Elbow S: Elbow broken [level 5]. G: Arm severed at elbow - bleed 1hp/min for 3 mins* (light).

6. Upper Arm S: "How humerus!" Upper arm broken [level 5]. G: Upper arm severed: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins* (light).

LEG

1. Foot S: Toes (d6) torn off: permanent limp, move reduced by 1". G: Foot shattered [level 5]: crippled permanently, move halved.

2. Ankle S: Ankle broken [level 3]. G: Foot severed -bleed 1hp/min for 3 mins* (light), move halved.

3,4. Shin S: Shinbone broken [level 6]. G: Lower leg severed: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins* (light), move halved.

5. Knee S: Knee broken [level 7]. G: Leg severed at the knee: bleed 1hp/min for 6 mins* (light), move halved.

6. Thigh S: Thighbone broken [level 8]. G: Upper leg severed: bleed 1hp/min for 10 mins* (light), move halved.

Breaks: Rest for d3xLevel days (Move:CONx5 or 1hp) & Recover for Level weeks.

* Crushed limbs bleed until amputated, or given the indicated level of healing

So... is Atomic Age Cthulhu ...

It's not like any of the gods in that setting are all that powerful, are they? ...Glorantha...

Oh, it's Glorantha? Didn't realize. (BTW, to me 'CPC' can only be 'Crispy Prawn Crackers'... )

Frogspawner, didn't see your post...

Thanks, but no worries. I didn't see Rust's post till after, either - his "the gods speak through omens" idea is spot-on, better than avatars (esp. for for low-level stuff). And once you've got interpreters of omens - they are the priests...

Can't help thinking it'd be better to leave the god out of it. Are there no priesthoods in your setting? A god directly dealing with piffling PC adventurers doesn't seem right. (Or the PCs starting as significant leaders/heroes would be odd, too). But if you must, how about an avatar? That could be killed if the PCs took a dislike to it (as they will) - and yet the god can manifest again later in another one...

"Hordes of the Things" (HoTT) is very good, and free. It's simple - if you can get past the legalese - and has a highly respectable pedigree, being written by the 'Wargames Research Group' authors of DBA, DBM etc.

Basically, you pick which of about 20 different types best represents each unit of troops, and normally have 12 or so units a side. To decide a conflict with an enemy unit, you roll d6+ bonus for the unit on each side. Usually, the loser retreats a bit, or gets destroyed if they lose badly (i.e. opponents total is double theirs), but troop-types can vary outcomes. Command-and-control is important: roll d6 on your turn and you can move that many groups (not units) - so if your troops are disordered, by a few little retreats perhaps, it gets a LOT harder. Feels realistic, and is surprisingly a laugh even for those of us who aren't serious wargamers.

I have yet to decide if hit points will be (SIZ+CON) or (SIZ+CON/2) yet. ... I do know I am using locations with seperate hit points. I don't know if I also want a separate hit point total to keep track of or not.

I recommend Overall Hit Points only. It's more "Classic" (and less admin).

Tracking both types is a pain, and unnecessary. You can still have the grittiness of Hit Locations...

Use (SIZ+CON/2) HP, but 0hp doesn't mean Death. Characters stay alive until -10hp (that's also "Classic"). But on Zero or less you roll for the hit location - and it goes out-of-action. Maybe they can fight on, maybe not. And at a certain negative (I use -4) they get a Major Wound related to that Hit Location. (I use a table - and it's on the wiki, I think. Actually it has Serious wounds and Critical wounds, for use at -4 and -7 respectively).

...or even a long-time GM. Very good question! Closely tied to exactly which rules options you play, though, so there's probably no perfect answer. but I'll certainly be watching to see what people can come up with...

Am i then correct in thinking that I can then, with money, the right amount time spent in ritual space and successful perform ritual rolls, increase my spells up to a number equal to my POW (currently 15).

Yep, sounds right to me. Maybe your GM would let your cleric have a few more than 2 Commons, if you're more than just a really-new "1st leveller". Conversion can be tricky - especially of gods and their spells. I've been trying to get free of D&D land for 20+ years and am still having trouble with that...!