frogspawner

First, I spend thirty years getting the rules right...

The problem with two rolls is a game mechanics one. A dodge and an parry at 50% each is as good as a 75% skill in either. Someone with 80% in each, would stop 96% of attacks.That makes it very hard for somebody to get a hit through. And we would need a reason why characters don't do it on every parry. Perhaps if the character had to give up a certain amount of ground. That way he could get boxed in and prevented from continually retreating.

That's the mechanic I use. Basically one parry per round*, and as many dodges as you like (only one per attack) - but any dodging means you have to step back (or go prone, or similar). Seems to counterbalance the "RQ combat is too lethal" complaint. How well it models any RW combat, I don't know...

(* But with Martial Arts giving an extra attack or parry, instead of extra damage).

Is there any reason to have a shield?

Not as the rules stand. It's a fault caused by the "Attack & Defense Matrix" being grafted-on. And glaringly, in a book of options, the Matrix is NOT optional.

There used to be. The damage abosrption of weapons has changed a bit with various versions of the rules. In RQ, shields could stop more damage than most other weapons. If you want a quick and easy houserule, shields should be easier to defend with, so you could make shield parries EASY (2xskill).

Yes. And that's a pretty good quick-fix.

BTW they way RQ3 handed shields was by giving them a higher Armor rating than most other weapons. When a weapon parried if the damage was greater than the weapon's Armor rating, the excess got through the parry, and the weapon lost a point of armor. A typical shield had 12 AP, a decent sword about 10, and most other weapons less.

Exactly. An alternative fix for the problem would be re-introducing that traditional RuneQuest (1,2&3) way of doing it. That's my preference.

The MRQ/Legend/RQ6 fix ("Combat Styles" - having combined weapon-AND-shield skill, for example) doesn't appeal to me.

In a way, what BRP needs is a Basic Role Playing Book! THe gold book is far from what the cover claims. It's more like Compiled Chaosium Role Playing (CCRP).

Indeed. But really, with no official alternative to that flawed Matrix, anything I came up with in that line could not be "official BRP", just a homebrew. Kind of de-motivating.

...I am very happy that the author is looking for ways to keep it available and even to expand and improve it.

Yeah! Go, Rod, go!

Jagerfury - just go.

Don't reconsider. Scrap it. Better product out there by better people. Very disappointed by this comment.

Hey, Trif - Where's the "Dislike with Extreme Prejudice" button?

Sounds great! Very best of luck with it, whatever you choose.

I am disappointed with Chaosium and do (now) harbour ill-will towards their so-called "Magic World" product, as they've obviously decided to keep new Classic Fantasy goodness from us in favour of that de-moorcocked Elric! re-hash.

That aside, why tie CF and yourself to any particular published rules-set? The necessary basics of BRP can be expressed very briefly, so why not do that, and become totally independent, yet compatible?

Arrh! You'll drive yourself crazy that way. ...

Thanks, that helps. I'll make sure to have fun - beating them up rather than myself. So it'll be with my preferred system, and that's basically RQ, not HQ.

It took the world 30 years to grow out of hack and slash D&D'isms in general.

Um. Has it?

Do they just wander around from place to place killing things, and getting treasure? Do they have any ties to any one or place in the game?

Pretty much (and not really, respectively), despite my best efforts. <Hangs head in shame> Must try harder...

Greg told me a story of a house game at CHaosium in which a baboon 'bit his own head off'.

I can see how this may be one of the drivers to develop HW/HQ! But I just think it's fantastic. (For that, I let you off).

Great anecdotes, gentlemen - thanks!

I had a character in RuneQuest that managed to chop off his own head and kill another player character due to a few bad dice rolls, a couple of '00' rolls in a row plus a few bad ones after that.

Blimey. I thought that Murphy's Rules type stuff was just mathematical, or apocryphal. That's brilliant!

...Though maybe this means you're not representative after all - your Real World Luck stat may be skewing the data.

(You guys do all know the RW runs under T&T rules, right? )

...all the other stuff should matter to the players...

Maybe I've just got Hack'n'Slash players, then... :/

You could check out the HQ forums. I think most of us here prefer RQ to HQ.

Yes indeed. But I think I'll stick here thanks. The OP asked the question here, so we should answer from what we know here, no?

The thing with HQ is that a character really can't die simply due to die rolls.

Well, that's a serious problem.

Quite a few of my characters have been killed in HeroQuest.

Keelhaul Whyduh - Bloodbeard Pirate with his own set of Sea Dogs and knowledgeable on the infamous Pirates Code! was killed by a Red Vadeli.

Sir Kaulth - an Esvulari knight from Durengard was 'melted' by a gorp.

Chu Yu Phat - The Erudite poet was eaten by the Golden Carp during a poetry contest.

Darsimis - a Yelmalian mercenary was attacked and killed by a troop of baboons in Prax.

Manushi Many-Flight - a noble from Teshnos who is visiting Pavis ended up having his own elephant sit on him during a battle with Lunar troops.

Cheers! That's great. RQ would be hard-pressed to match some of those for sheer amusement. "Yawn - not another self-decapitation..."

In various HQ games I've run in I've had: ...

Thanks for those examples, just the sort of thing that should happen. But I note they were with you as GM, inflicting them on players.

So... has anyone had their own characters killed in HQ?

If you've never played the game before, please stop telling those of us who have that we don't know what we're talking about.

I have not said any such thing, just asked clarifying questions of those who have played and expressed my concerns. Please apologize.

I expect so, but it would be fairly rare. It's really not a good thing in any RPG to kill off lots of characters...

It's not pointless, just something where the players don;t care about the outcome, and generally boring. But losing one's character isn't the only form of risk. The stakes can be anything, as long as the players have a vested interest in the outcome. Things like an item, money, family members <snip>

'Expect' - so you haven't. I'm not saying "kill off lots" - but it needs to be a real risk. Just the odd one. Certainly, the characters have lots to care about - but the players only have the character itself. So character death is - ultimately - the only risk that matters.

I was using Hero System as an example of a more cinematic set of rules compared to BRP/RuneQuest. Based on the discussion, Hero Quest is similarly cinematic, encouraging antics that would be unthinkable in RQ.

OK, thanks. HS is the same style of game as HQ - but it ain't the same game. And I'm not bothered about cinematic antics, just this one issue: Do HQ characters ever die?

It's happened a few times in my own games. Indeed, there are different types of 'death' in HQ... 'social death' or 'financial ruin', etc. ...As above, yes.

Oooo - not exactly unequivocal. Sure those few times weren't just 'social deaths'? I'd have much preferred, for example, "Yes, my long-played character Katlos went to fight this big whack-off multi-headed chaos blob threatening our stead - but lost. End of."

Is there anyone else who's ever had an HQ character killed? Anyone at all...?

Very few of my Hero System characters have died...

'Hero System' isn't HeroQuest, though. (Or do you mean it as that?)

The risk doesn't have to be great, but it must be there. And (assuming your HS is not HQ) no-one has yet said they've *ever* had an HQ character killed...

Has any player-character ever got killed in HeroQuest?

If there's no risk*, there's nothing 'heroic' about it. It's pointless.

(* Real, significant "You can't play your beloved character anymore" risk - not trivial, artificial "Arthur bruised his upper arm" type 'risk').

So, how easy is it in HQ for player-characters to get killed?

(Apart from when the story demands it, as part of some sort of afterlife adventure or heroic sacrifice, I mean).

I don't know the system but my suspicion is, not easy at all.

[Re. Die-in-die D100]

That sounds cool. I don't think I've ever seen one of those.

Here you go...

Clear Red Double 10 Sided Dice - Game Master Dice

Skill based vs. Class based.

Skill based instead of Level based.

Fixed HP vs. Increasing HP.

Active Defense vs a Static Defense (AC)

Injuries vs. Generic HP loss.

Degrees of Success vs. a Pass/Fail system (okay Pass/Fail/Critical with attack rolls).

THose are the real differences. Not the dice.

Yes, this.

But regarding the lesser matter of physical dice, I have some die-in-die d100's (a little d10 inside a larger clear-plastic d10) - which are cute.

Thanks, but it's the Sword-and-Sorcery adventures book 'The Spider Gods Bride' that I've been waiting for...

...since Christmas.

Worrying - where are No.s 2-to-20, and what are they up to? I foresee these guys appearing in a future BRP Adventures...

I am unhappy with BRP not giving prices. My advice is to use actual values for items (magical swords or whatever) from some other system.

I hit 'Report Post' on a couple of the spams a few days a go. Did that get through? Is there any point doing that?

How does Lunar magic truly work? All interesting questions to answer.

...but which you'll have to answer, if you're ever going to publish adventures involving Lunars. Looking forward to it!

Hmmm, after checking I find Legend doesn't actually have 'Fast Talk'. There's Influence, a version of Persuade, but that has long-lasting effects too.

So - what's the shortest time (speaking and/or preparation) that you'd allow for use of Oratory?

Oratory is public speaking; Fast Talk is gift-of-the-gab.

Whatever. As you prefer, but they're both just 'Clever Speaking' imho. There may be some individuals who can't do both, but I see plenty of politicians - perhaps most - whose 'Oratory' seems actually to be just (failed) Fast Talk carried on for a boringly long time...

Glad there's no disagreement with the others at least...

Search = Spot [but 'INTx?' for general perception rolls, i.e. requested by the GM, not the player]

Lockpicking = (Disarm) Traps

Persuade = Fast Talk = [...] = Seduction

Perform = Play Instrument () [and Sing/Dance are just variations]

Language () - simplify this to one skill, and a list of languages known (without individual percentages, but recently-learned ones might be at, say, x1/2).

First Aid = Healing