Thoror

Oh man, I can't wait anymore. I have been waiting for years already! (surely the Gamemaster's Guide and the Sartar Campaign will be awesome too, but this, this is the one I really want. I think of it as the most important Glorantha book ever after the Guide, the Sourcebook and King of Sartar).

See, reading all that has been fascinating; I fancy myself a Glorantha lore fan who crossed the border of casual fandom long ago, but my experience has been nothing like that. I couldn't have waited 40 years for the Sartar campaign because I'm not even 40 years old. I couldn't have gone to any convention to get sneak peeks because I'm from Spain, and it's only in the last three years or so that I could have started to dream of going to a British con (nevermind the American/Australian ones), because I didn't have any sort of economic independence before that. I've never met Greg; the only sort of interaction I've ever had with him was him answering via email one question I had submitted to him, just one month before his death (I consider that answer a small, priceless treasure, even if it's just one stupid email from a creator who never stopped interacting with the fandom). I'm a self-taught Gloranthaphile who (with the sole exception of the answers in a post I wrote in this very forum some years ago, for which I'm grateful) never had anybody helping him navigate this most complex labyrinth of mythopoeic madness and endlessly evolving "canons"; my (probably many) failures and my (probably few) successes have been (almost entirely) my own. I don't know about anybody else, but that's why Arkat's Saga would be important for me; it would be an important step in the road to illumination, a major piece in the puzzle of a figure that I've come to consider THE key to understanding Glorantha (and yes, I know that there is no single key and that nobody ever really understands Glorantha, but I think you can get my gist). I didn't know what you're saying about the role of Arkat in his own saga, but it doesn't surprise me. Nor does it discourage me. At all.

Pretty self-explanatory question. I find kind of amazing the current situation: if you want to learn all there is to know about Arkat (and why wouldn't you, seeing that he is one of the most important people in the history of Glorantha, if not THE most important (particularly if Argrath is some sort of reincarnation)), you would have to pay 350 US dollars for it on ebay. I don't see any reason not to publish it; the Stafford Library was made for this kind of unfinished/not-for-casual-fans work. Probably there IS a reason, but I don't see it.

Yeah, but the thing is... I think that too. Just not like that. When I read that Moonson's design was based on bad-shape Elvis (I hadn't made that connection myself)... I didn't have any problem with that whatsoever. Just a fun cosmetic touch. And I know that canon-Argenteus is pretty much a Nero-like ruler, a decadent figure whom Lunar propaganda is trying (badly) to paint in a positive light, and of course a product like this has to reflect that... ... But that's one thing, and a lovingly explicit and detailed depiction of his potty problems is another thing, you know? Moonson having seven lovers born as daughters of a former Mask, which makes it symbolic incest, is one thing; five of them being based on the friggin' Spice Girls is another thing. The goddess Glamour being a fickle, deceptive yet stylish and altogether... well, glamorous bitch is one thing; her having Saturday nights (I don't think I need to explain that there are no Saturdays in Glorantha) as her holy days is another. There is something here beneath the gross-out comedy, beneath the over-the-top absurdity, beneath the pop-culture references that I very much like. There is a real Lunar Empire behind the funhouse mirror reflection, and yeah, maybe that is what Jeff was talking about (and I apologize to Nick for not saying the good part before). I just wish that a canon book took that and ran with it. It's one of the most fascinating parts of Glorantha; I think it could run its own show.

Oh right, forgot that one. I was considering Imperial Lunar Handbook I and II essentially the same book in two parts, and Life of Moonson is a prolongation of the Rough Guide. There is also Champions of the Reaching Moon, but that one has a very narrow focus, thus why I also forgot it.

Preposterous as in "it would be preposterous to consider this madness part of the usual/canon Glorantha", not as in "this is garbage". Just a big ol' misunderstanding. It's a nice product in its own way, it's just that I wish so badly that there was a serious, canonical Lunar Empire/Lunar mythology book. Those three books won't be enough for me, I just want a "Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes" for the Lunars. Cults of Glorantha won't even have the Red Emperor cult, although your version is pretty good and valid. Peace, man.

Quite honestly, I don't know why are you being so aggressive. It kind of baffles me. Even more so when: 1) I haven't said that the Rough Guide is canon. Not once. Not ever. There is not a single canon book focused in the Lunar Empire, as much as I would love it; just two non-canon ones. I'm just saying that the person in charge of the canon recommends the Rough Guide as one of the best sources on the Empire, one that even fits his vision for it. Which means that, since there is no canon Lunar Empire book, the Rough Guide would be the closest thing to it. Is that wrong? Is that deceptive? Because I know that "the closest thing to a canon book" doesn't mean "a canon book", and I have never claimed otherwise. 2) There are only two reasons why I prefer the handbook, OK? Just two: it's the only one with a fully developed Lunar mythology, and it's serious. That's it. That's just it. I like the serious stuff in the Rough Guide. I like most of the Glamour gazzeteer. I like the Red Emperor cult write-up. I like plenty of things in it. The problem is that the humorous/plain crazy stuff is neither what I wanted nor what I expected in a Lunar Empire book. I don't even think it's bad; just not what I was looking for. I don't know where this prima donna "I don't need this, haters gonna hate but my fans love me so much more" shit comes from. Like, I haven't the slightest clue. Honestly.

They say that, according to Jeff, it is one of the best sources on the Lunar Empire alongside three official, "canon" products. Oh, sure, before that it says that it is not "canon", but that was never my point; after all, I was comparing it with another non-"canon" book. Neither the Glamour Guide nor the Imperial Lunar Handbook are "canon". But the Jeff quotes make it seem like the Glamour Guide is more "canon"(-ish) than the Imperial Lunar Handbook. Which is impossible, because the guide is a crazy bananas, farcical at points, full of pop culture references book, and the handbook is... not.

I don't know, my man. Those are the only lines quoted from that particular discussion, so I only know what drivethrurpg tells me. Verbatim: In another discussion, he commented: "I'd say the Guide to Glamour is about 95% how I view it. And as all RQ players know, a roll of 96-00 is always a failure. As opposed to something like the Imperial Lunar Handbook books [for HeroQuest] which were closer to 25%. And as all RQ players know, don't go into combat with a 25% skill."

Yeah, I know. At least, I do now. Personally, I blame the wikia for its "we'll only use "canon" sources" policy.

So... Took me long enough to realize this, didn't it? After all, "Your Glorantha May/Will Vary" has always been one of the biggest slogans. I should have seen it coming. But see, when Jeff Richard came along saying what is (Guide to Glorantha, King of Sartar...) and most definitely isn't (Glorantha the Second Age) canon, well... I believed him. Yeah, I know. Silly me. I still don't really know why he would want to fool me like that, but hey, maybe it's his way of opening the third eye. Wouldn't surprise me. It started days ago, when I realized that taking this at face value meant that perfectly fine work by Lawrence Whitaker would never be canon, even when not contradicting anything in the Guide or the Stafford Library, but that something so absurd as King of Sartar's central conceit (namely, that it was compiled in the Fourth Age by some dude named Greg Friggin' Stafford) is. Huh, wasn't that kind of weird? Not to mention that the unrealibility of surviving records was one of the aforementioned book's main themes. Funny that. But that wasn't the main revelation, no sir. That just happened, when I saw this gem in the Rough Guide to Glamour's drivethrurpg page: "I'd say the Guide to Glamour is about 95% how I [Jeff Richard] view it. And as all RQ players know, a roll of 96-00 is always a failure. As opposed to something like the Imperial Lunar Handbook books [for HeroQuest] which were closer to 25%. And as all RQ players know, don't go into combat with a 25% skill." So... are you telling me that the book in which the oh-so-much Bronze Age Glorantha has a city with a modern-day style tourism industry, Moonson is a constipated Elvis and people talk like the inhabitants of 1984's Oceania is more canon that something, I don't know... not preposterous, like the Imperial Lunar Handbook? That can't be true. That isn't true. So, the canon isn't true. The canon isn't real. Like the end of the wonderful Six Seasons in Sartar's Rites of Passage reveals, in the end it's all just masks and the Void. That's the real truth. And I've become Illuminated.

About HeroQuest, I'm guessing the Big Rubble book was definitely cancelled. Somebody correct me if I'm mistaken, because I would like that book very much.

Pretty self-explanatory, but yeah, now that we have the two complete Sartarite sagas (The Coming Storm-The Eleven Lights and Six Seasons in Sartar-The Company of the Dragon) I was wondering which one is your favourite, if you even have one (maybe they're equally awesome), and why is it.

I'm starting to think that what happened is that Nysalor was a thesis, Arkat was an antithesis, and that the whole thing failed because the antithesis ended up destroying the thesis (or viceversa), instead of creating a synthesis (which is to say true, pure non-Gbaji Illumination) together.

Well, yes, the priests of Orlanth hate Shepelkirt as much as Sedenya hates Rebellus Terminus. If the Lunars have flawed Illumination, the Orlanthi are not even trying. But the Lunars are the ones invading the others, building a temple and attacking Whitewall in order to kill their god, sooo... I think they are (usually, at first) the worse ones.

Well, if the Trollkin Curse was created when he wounded Kyger Litor in the Battle of Night and Day the circumstances (one attack in the middle of an open war) make it somewhat less horrific that something so unprovoked as the plague in the West. But you're right, it's kind of a dick move.

Ooooh, so THAT's why the Lunars are the villains (to the extent that someone can be a villain in a world like Glorantha, of course). Very interesting.

About this new topic, I find kind of interesting that Nysalor never seems to do anything evil directly. His followers were the ones who created the plague in the West, or turned into vampires in Tanisor, or "misinterpreted" his philosophy in order to create the Make Me a Duke movement. Just like the Unholy Trio released the Devil into the world after being Illuminated/Occluded by Rashoran. That is what makes Nysalor so ambiguous; I don't really know if he ever was Gbaji, or if Gbaji was more of a nasty side effect of his/Rashoran's teachings.

I will admit that I'm not well versed in Kralorelan Illumination, so yeah, we can call it Sevening to be more specific. On point (3): I kinda knew that it goes both directions; I also know that Arkat was Illuminated (probably Argrath too). But Arkat also fought against Illumination, so I think that he could have done that in part by reversing the usual process (instead of the Many acting as One while still retaining some degree of individuality, the One acting as Many while still retaining some degree of unity; thus why Arkat Kingtroll felt like a betrayal to his human allies who had joined forces with another, quite different Arkat). But yeah, I'm aware of this point being the most speculative one.

As I understand it, Illumination is about the Many becoming the One ("We Are All Us"). That's why: 1. Illumination is also about acceptance of Chaos (and about Chaos accepting Order), even when it would be counterproductive, as both Chaos and Order are parts of the One. 2. Hermaphroditism represents the triumph of Illumination, starting by its own deity Rashoran/a, by assimilating both halves of one of the most primal, significant and explicit dualities of the universe into a single being. 3. There were several Arkats/Argraths; a single being turning into many is pretty much the opposite of Illumination, thus one powerful way of symbolically fighting against it. 4. This, and not some territorial dispute about the Middle Air, is the real reason why Rebellus Terminus must be killed. He is contrarianism/individualism incarnate, thus impossible to truly assimilate into the One. That's the reason why the EWF's Orlanth the Dragon thing did not last, and both Lokamayadon and Shepelkirt knew that they had to replace him if they wanted to win.

I find it hard to believe. The man (whom I never met in person) answered via e-mail a Glorantha-related question exactly one month before his death. I think this is the first celebrity death which has truly upset me. Glorantha is a unique masterpiece, one of the biggest achievements in the history of fantasy, and I will continue admiring and loving it as this big, beautiful yet too-little known gem that constantly lets us feel the awe and wonder that Bronze-Age societies must have felt before their vast world and their unfathomable gods. The world will be a little less magical place without him.