Sheliak

Well, they were still around at the Dawn (including the Berenethtelli and the others from the game), so probably? ... although some tribes definitely fell apart, and presumably also clans that never actually joined tribes (should've thought of that, given KODP--it's just that by the end of Ride Like the Wind all the Rams we know of are in tribes...).

An illustrated version of the story tent would have been awesome! ... but yeah, also a ton of work (all those variations!), so I can see why it didn't happen. The drunken bears are great, though! I like the idea of Sedenya being the Changer Elmal fought. Some (potentially silly) speculation about antlers and deer people: Heort seems fairly likely to figure in this game, considering it’s about Orlanthi in the Great Darkness. I tried to look up Heort’s tribe on the Glorantha wiki, since I was curious about how he might come in. And I couldn’t find anything. (I did find out that the Berenethtelli king contemporary with Heort was a guy called Venef the Stallion, though, and a direct descendant of Beren and Redalda.) Heort has parents, who have histories and families. He’s got a clan. But no tribe. (Maybe because he’s supposed to be an ancestor to all Orlanthi, so no one has that extra claim on him? Alternately, I am just really bad at navigating that wiki.) Heort’s mother is Red Drenyan, Vingan warrior of the Alynx Clan, who had an Esrolian marriage despite owning only one sword and two spears, which implies either that her clan couldn't afford to give up any warriors or that her husband was even poorer. The Alynx Clan live in Dragon Pass, but they have no tribe listed. Heort’s father (who married into Drenyan’s clan) is Darndrev the Horned, who had antlers on his head and came came from the Winter Deer People. One page of the Glorantha wiki says that the Winter Deer People may have relied on shapeshifting to survive the Darkness; another says that Heort’s grandfather was cursed to take the form of a deer by his lover, and that his descendants had deer traits after that. But the name “Winter Deer People” definitely makes me think of the Omaseg—who herd reindeer, travel in constant winter, and may be deer hsunchen—even though the details don’t quite match up. And the “antlers on his head” line makes me think of the forbidden worship of Seg, the Stag Father (forbidden because those who wore antlers were at risk of turning evil). And there’s the Antler Society… And one more thing: Both Darndrev and Drenyan were killed by the terrible monster Mogjorbor, who could grow any kind of antlers on his head. So. Mogjorbor doesn’t sound exactly like the antler monster from “Rivalry between warlords”, but they do remind me of each other. And I’m really curious about Darndrev.

Oooh, that hadn't occurred to me! But it makes a lot of sense that the freezing would effect the physical earth before the spiritual earth. And that would explain why Oria passed the Earth Queen job on, if she can't do it anymore... And in gameplay terms at least, Nyalda is even further away from the physical Earth than Ernalda was in KODP--none of her blessings is a food/crop blessing, and only one is related to (human) fertility. Mostly she 's associated with bonds between people: marriage, the Cooperation blessing that helps people work together, harmony/relations boosts from the Hospitality blessing's feasts... To be Orlanthi about it, "No one can live alone." But I do wonder if the freezing of the Earth effects her, too... Anyway, I was curious about story tent variations, so I went poking around a few saves. It looks like it mostly varies depending on Famous Event and ancestral enemy. There were 7 horse generations in Nivorah, 10 since the exodus (not counting the current one), and who knows how many pre-horse Nivoran generations. Named generations are: Exodus Generation Generation of Enemies (Thengist, Goldtalon) Warring Chieftain generation (ends with Nameforgot's big defeat-) Far Travel Generation (“many inhuman foes beset us at this time”) The Madness Generation (emblems removed from the story tent to protect later generations from bad dreams) Healing Generation ("Erissa priestesses performed great deeds", presumably curing the madness that affected the previous generation) Fast Foals Generation (the clan splits five ways) Winter Generation (a time of extreme cold, so much that the Riders feared dying out) Rekindling Generation (“But then the chieftains of the Rekindling Generation went to the Gods War to brighten Elmal and warmth came back. Our chief for most of this time, <X>, gave more of himself than any other, leaving his heart in the sky hearth. The eldest among us remember those times, but soon we will only have these emblems to go by.” ) Honey Generation (your elders all remember this time--it sounds like a time of relative plenty after the rekindling). Valley Generation (current). First emblem is usually a Famous Event, but the Forces of Water enemy can go earlier: (I was wondering if the Changer was Yelmalio or Yonesh, but looking it up on the Glorantha wiki gave me a Pameltelan trickster god, also known as Running Nose.) (I am not sure why this doesn't refer to Kestor Brang.) It's interesting that some of the very early Famous Deeds mention female ancestors, despite how patriarchal the Dara Happans are. Then again, the Earth=female association seems pretty strong, going by how shocked your people are by Uldak being a male earth god. (If you don't have an event or enemy in this time period, you get a generic battle as your first emblem, with randomized details. My favorite variant was "the clash at Weeping Hill, where we fought the drunken bears and destroyed them all.") The Werris Mur event seems to take place a bit later: (I think that's my favorite of the famous events, as depicted here--it's a neat bit of foreshadowing for where the game ends up going!) (I already listed this one, but it's neat. And I think this is about where it goes in chronological order.) After Hyalor tames/heals Gamari, there's this: It's the same for both ways you can pick Ram ancestral enemies in clan creation--I was hoping that they'd be different, oh well. Although it's interesting in its own way--it makes it sound like the ancestors made a conscious decision to become the sworn enemies of the Rams in order to gain power against them. A couple of others sound like that too. Chaos comes in at the same time. Your minor god gets a mention during the exodus: The trolls might actually be before the minor gods bit, not sure. Like the Ram choice, it doesn't seem to vary. The last two Famous Events actually happen after Yenfar is mentioned, so well after the exodus: (Which ties back into the part in "Busenari Finds the Light" where the narration says everyone in Yelm's time drank mead instead of milk. I wonder if lactose tolerance is a divine gift in Glorantha, like so much else? Probably it is.) I know that the dwarves can recognize your ancestors as involved in this event; I wonder if the people of Genert's Garden can? (They do show up in the game: https://sixages.fandom.com/wiki/Agimori_Visit ) The elves and dwarves only appear as enemies during the Far Travel generation.

I'm sorry, I think I was misleading there. My Glorantha knowledge is almost all from this game and KODP; I know Oria is important to other people later, but not really the details of her role (although from this thread I know that in "modern" Glorantha she isn't considered to be Yelm's wife). I was only talking about her role in the game, to the Rider culture. In this game, Oria isn't very important to the Riders: she used to be, but now she's gone down into the underworld--possibly to join her dead husband--and she's unreachable to the extent that they're not sure if she's alive or dead. So in their worship, Nyalda has taken her place as queen of the earth and, possibly, taken over her relationships as well. I'm sorry I was confusing!

I was reading the Story Tent for my clan, and I noticed something I hadn't before: Emphasis mine. I'm pretty sure Yelmalio=Little Yelm, but this is the only time I remember seeing him mentioned by this name. So that's interesting. And "Weak Sun" might refer to his lack of Fire? And of course, there's something appropriate about an empire covered in ice that worships a cold and fireless sun... This showed up for me when I had Dara Happans as my ancestral enemies. I wonder what extra lore you get for the other ones? Some things I thought of while rereading the thread: In most of the stories/advice that mentions Verlaro, he's there to make mistakes and be rescued by Osara. Sort of the comedic version of Nameforgot--neither of them ever gets to do anything right, but Nameforgot is doomed and Verlaro is always going to be okay in the end. But there are a few exceptions. There's a clan that calls on him in divinations, and has a special connection to him that they're proud of. And there's this: "Elmal called his son Verlaro to his side. The difficult journey to his father's position is what made him a hero." So he does get to be the hero of some stories--it's just that our clans prefer telling the ones about Osara, which require Verlaro to basically be a damsel in distress so that his sister can be heroic. (They're also pretty inconsistent about his origins--some of my advisors have claimed he was born after the exodus, or that he was "sometimes mighty, but never a god" which contradicts "Osara and Verlaro". So... folklore is messy even when the gods are real, I guess?) Inilla and the Golden Bush: You can technically get Wheels to come to an Inilla rite, but it's extremely hard--I've managed it once, I think. At the end they congratulate you for getting the cooperation expected from Elmal's chattel, which is even ruder than they get about the other goddesses. Dostal Elk Hunter: Nameforgot was the one to notice that Yenfar's sending wasn't their quarry, but he doesn't get the aside about learning the lesson more thoroughly than the others. I don't know if that's a "Nameforgot can't do anything right" thing, or if it's because his accomplishments were lost along with his name. Yenfar: At one point, your advisors say that he was the child of a Ram mother and Rider father, and imply that he's the reason for the marriage taboo. Busenari Light Finder: I read the sister/daughter confusion as being an artifact of how old the story is. Busenari is the daughter of the Earth Goddess, so when Yelm was alive she was the daughter of Oria, making her and Nyalda sisters. But in the modern day, your people sometimes call her Nyalda's daughter instead, because Oria isn't terribly relevant anymore. Hyalor Tablet Maker: I've noticed something about the art that interests me. In almost all of the gods' world scenes, the gods have swirly patterns on their clothing (or skin or manes/tails in the case of nonhuman gods). Mortals don't. Here, Hyalor doesn't have that accenting, which makes sense given his odd situation... but neither does Samnal, either here or when he shows up in other myths. That makes me think that Samnal may not have always been a god either, despite being Elmal's son. After all, Cenala isn't exactly a goddess, despite being the child of two gods... Ekarna Four Trader: We never do learn what Ekarna bargained away to get her trade rune, do we? Rogoros lost his Fire rune to get the Trade rune, but she's a mystery... (Nyalda's Bride Price refers to Nyalda sending her to obtain the trade rune, so before that she could have had a different role.) Zarlen's First Wander: That line about Hyalor being like Zarlen in many ways reads a bit differently once you know that Hyalor was Yamsur's son. (I'm also curious about the Wheel Witch, Zarlen's mother; I don't remember her being mentioned at all elsewhere.) I think there's a one-line mention that the Wheels do worship Zarlen, but yeah, I agree that he's got to be a marginal member of their pantheon. Relandar's Ranking: Osara does sort of pop up randomly to symbolize changing gender roles, doesn't she? Incidentally, the Wheels can ask for your help performing the ritual Relander Role Sorter. So a) they have a ritual based on this myth, and b) some of them probably do worship him. Raven and Hyalor: Raven is interesting. It seems like the Hyalorings are more comfortable with Raven than the Orlanthi are with Eurmal because he's a spirit, not a god--Eurmal and his followers are more threatening because of that status, but Raven has a liminal position. Eurmal is a "bad" unreliable god, but Raven is a spirit, and doesn't have to be reliable. I like their detail that Cenala has pinecones in her hair. Given her backstory, it makes a lot of sense that she'd be an evergreen elf (insofar as she is an elf). Hero and Beast God: If you help the beast god, the hero swears vengeance against your clan and against Basmol the Lion. So, presumably Tada. And the debug file calls the scene where the wolf people appear Telmori. So I guess they're the Telmori's ancestors? The Infithtelli: One event has a local Ram telling your that the Infithtelli have hated her clan since they split from them, so maybe it was a political schism? There's one event where your explorer stays with an Infithtelli clan, and the chief wants them to promise to tell everyone back home that the Infithtelli are not cannibals, and says that it's always been a lie and a slander on them and their founding king. Of course, there's another scene where some Infithtelli want you to take a box to a local Ram clan (they pay you, but not much), and if you do it, it turns out that the box contains the skeleton of the local clan's former chief. (Both of those are on the wiki.)

Thank you, that's really neat to see! I was having so much trouble figuring out what the components of Ekarna's rune were... And yes, it looks just like the tent where she displays her wares! And thanks for those links, Leingod! The Feldichi do seem rather mysterious; maybe the Gold Wheel Dancer has reason to believe we'll meet them in the future?

Hah, that was me over on Reddit! My logic for the guess was: in Making of the Storm Tribe (the KODP heroquest) one of the options at the divine confederation moot is to wait for Ernalda to bring tribal regalia. If you do that, one of the things she brings is a Chest of Torcs for Orlanth to give to the clan leaders. Here she's making torcs to give to important gods, to calm them down. It doesn't have to be the same event, but it seems familiar. Also, there's a value called ch1summary in the bug file, which is set after the endgame heroquest is won. If you successfully talk down one of the gods and then asked Ernalda to make sure that what you said to them is remembered, you get ch1summary = "Beren and Redalda celebrated their union by helping Vadrus join the Storm Tribe." (Or Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, or Uralda.) (Then again, if Beren/Elmal fails at offering his shield, they say "This is the Storm Tribe, not the Fire Tribe!" So... conflicting evidence. But my guess was that it happened partway through the negotiations, when the gods are seriously considering forming an already-named tribe but most are also considering storming off in a huff. That, or it's another example of time being weird for gods.) I've had that Golden Wheel rumor with a Ram clan, too. And there's this exploration mini-event: I have no idea who the Feldichi are; I don't think they actually show up in this game. But they could be in one of the events I haven't gotten, or maybe the next game...

If you keep visiting the Northern Wheel Kingdom, you get running updates on the Gar-Astin clan--they get up to some interesting things. (No full events, though, and no more treasures.) I wonder if that "solar dome" is related to the later Sun Dome Temples? (That eventlet grants +2 clan magic, by the way.) After this I stopped copying all of the "they were happy to see us and gave us presents" details, but they do keep giving you small amounts of trade goods when you visit. After that the story is over/the Gar-Astini's fortunes have settled; you just get variants on a form message saying that nothing much has changed and also Aurainus is unhappy about some problem (anything from golden men--I think that's the most lore-interesting one-- to falling frogs).