Jump to content

Leingod

Members
  • Content count

    27
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

35 Excellent

About Leingod

  • Rank
    Member

Converted

  • RPG Biography
    Not very much. Mostly I started in Dungeons & Dragons like a lot of people, experimented with White Wolf Games, got into Pendragon because of my love of Arthurian mythos, then found Glorantha and Chaosium through King of Dragon Pass.
  • Current games
    Right now? None.
  • Location
    California
  • Blurb
    I actually havent' played many games, even though I read a lot of gamebooks.

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Leingod

    Elmal Yelmalio thing

    Wow, where's that story? Oh, also, I'm looking through all the Lore articles in the game, and I found something interesting in "Taming the River." Reladivus is considered one of Yelm's Eight Sons, right? And he is, I think, considered to have been the God of Nivorah, rather than the son of its goddess. Another interesting thing is in "Hyalor Tablet-Maker." Nivorah dies while Elmal is on a quest to restore the sun's warmth ("Elmal Guards the Sunpath"), and Manarlavus sends legates to demand that the people of Nivorah build a dome. In Elmal's stead, Hyalor and Samnal join together for the first and only time to defy him. So then, does this mean that one truth about Elmal's place be that Elmal was forgotten by the Dara Happans because of Manarlavus, and that without Elmal they confused Reladivus for the now-missing son of Yelm?
  2. Leingod

    Elmal Yelmalio thing

    Something I'm curious about: in "Elmal Guards the Sunpath," the Cold Sun gives its name as Yonesh when it encounters Elmal for the second time, and when it claims to be the sun, Elmal defies it by claiming that Yonesh is "riddled with storm runes" and would pollute whatever part of the great sky road he touched. Is the Cold Sun in this myth actually Vadrus? Meanwhile, in "Nyalda's Bride Price," when Nyalda is approached for marriage by many different suns, Little Yelm tries to use invisible chains to trap her in his palace and prevent her from escaping. Nyalda avoids his trap and flees to a hill that she beseeches for aid. The hill traps Little Yelm inside its depths, "where lurked a towering troll, who would keep him busy for a good long time." Is this perhaps related to Yelmalio losing his Fire to Zorak Zoran? I mean, Yelmalio's biggest myth is named after a hill...
  3. Leingod

    Orlanth the Abuser

    You know, if we're speaking of marriage myths, Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind has the marriage myth of Elmal to Nyalda (the Hyaloring name for Ernalda), which is pretty good. I wonder if some variation on it is the myth used for Elmali who marry Ernaldans in Esrola (where Orlanth is kind of just one of Ernalda's many husbands) to this day?
  4. Leingod

    Three New Stars, Three New Gods?

    If I had reactions left, I'd give you a "Thanks." I'm not nearly deep enough into Gloranthan lore to understand, like, half of that, which is largely why I put this question up to begin with. So, Siwend is actually one of Orlanth's oldest companions? That might fit; in the Hyaloring lore, Dostal was a god that the Hyalorings (and Samnali) only met after they left Nivorah, and who seems to come and go as he pleases. I was aware that Baroshi is from Snakepipe Hollow and his connection to Maran, and his write-up in the Eleven Lights implicitly states that his parents were demigods (saying they can't be worshiped because they were destroyed by a son of the Devil). Now that I was not aware of. I hadn't even considered connections to Flamal or Genert. I guess that makes Baroshi one of the last male Earth gods to be born? I wonder if that's the significance of his eternal state of childhood?
  5. Leingod

    Three New Stars, Three New Gods?

    So, in The Eleven Lights (warning you right now, massive spoilers for that book, don't continue if you don't want that), the dead gods you revive as the Three New Stars are originally just worshiped as a group, but with 500 worshipers any of them could become a sub-cult of Orlanth “or a similar deity.” They could also become a cult of their own with 2,000 worshipers, but that’s another thing entirely. Anyway, my question is: Who and what would these old/new gods become gods of? How would their worship differ from similar, established gods (since I don't see them replacing any of these gods outright barring some serious Gods War shenanigans), and what changes might they create in Orlanthi society if they become established cults or subcults of their own? Varnaval the Shepherd King was a very martial god, while his replacements Voriof and Uroth are not. I think Varnaval as a subcult of Orlanth would be a path for shepherds to become warriors who can not only defend their flocks from invaders but take the fight to them. I could see a young shepherd initiating to Varnaval and becoming an Orlanthi version of David, for example, defeating some great foe and becoming a great conqueror. In other words, I think Varnaval would present a martial path for shepherds to become raiders and conquerors rather than just skirmishers and defenders of flocks, which might lead to greater respect and prestige for shepherds in clans where his worship catches on, which would probably be clans where sheep-herding is already very important to them, i.e. Light Orlanthi clans. Siwend the Hunter is represented by the Man Rune where his replacement Odayla is represented by the Beast Rune. Odayla represents the hunter as a person who straddles the line between man and beast, a creature of the hinterlands between the wild and the civilized worlds. One of the major Odaylan myths is of a man hunting a bear, one of them coming back, and there is ambiguity as to which is Odayla (with the mythic secret being that they are both Odayla, and that the hunter and the hunted are two parts of a whole). I think Siwend represents a hunter who isn’t of the wild the way Odayla is; he is a man who conquers beasts, rather than someone who is both man and beast and has to reconcile the two as he advances in the cult. I guess he might become a subcult for the more “civilized” Odaylans? Apropos of nothing, in Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind one of the Hyaloring gods is Dostal the Hunter, whose wife is Inilla the Forager, a daughter of Nyalda, the Hyaloring name for Ernalda. Meanwhile, Siwend the Hunter is married to Indeg, who made the thorn basket that always has another handful of dried berries in it. Does that mean that Siwend himself might have been a foreign god brought into the Vingkotling fold along with Elmal? Would it then be possible for Siwend to become a subcult of Elmal the way Rigsdal is, or am I just completely off-base in how that works? Korolful the Keen is a Star Captain; he is the Shooting Star who speeds across the sky to strike enemies with burning flame. He represents the idea that all men make their own inheritance (like all Star Captains, apparently) and values pride, independence and initiative. Very proper Orlanthi values, actually. So, I’m actually not sure what changes introducing the worship of Korolful would bring. Maybe something to do with his Fate Rune? Baroshi the Avenger is actually interesting, in that he strikes me as akin to a male version of Babeester Gor. He sought vengeance almost from birth and has a strong connection to Maran Gor, and he of course has the Earth Rune. It actually raises a question for me. Is it possible, as an Orlanthi boy taking his initiation, to display an affinity for both Earth and Death? Being a Nandan is the only Earth-related male role I know of, so what happens if you have a connection to Earth but aren’t really cut out to act like a typical Ernaldan? Is that just not possible, and would introducing Baroshi as a subcult to some suitable Earth goddess (probably Maran, I’d think) make that possible? If so, I’m really curious as to how they would take that in Esrolia, where Babeester is much more popular than she is elsewhere. Would they see that as an intrusion of some kind? Saren the Charioteer is the driver of Elmal’s chariot, in which Elmal crosses the sky. The Orlanthi aren’t a chariot-focused people in the first place and Mastakos fills any need for chariots and charioteers they do have. It’s actually kind of weird, because the Elmali are the horse riders of the Orlanthi, so I think if a subcult of Saren emerged there might be some real tension with the rider subcult of Hyalor in particular. Which would be an interesting resurgence of the tension between the Riders (Hyalorings) and Wheels (Samnali) in Six Ages, actually. Actually, in that game “Samnal” was one of the children of Elmal; the Riders didn’t like to admit that, because it would mean admitting that Samnal was closer to Elmal than Hyalor, whose divine parentage isn’t even known to the Hyalorings unless you do the Gamari Heroquest and discover that he was the son of Yamsur. I wonder is Saren is another name for him? Oonil the Skillful actually reminds me of Lugh of the Tuatha Dé Danann in Irish myth, who among other things is called Ildánach (“skilled in many arts”) or Samildánach (“equally skilled in many arts”). I'm sure that's entirely intentional. When Lugh tried to join the court of Nuada, he tried to offer his services in a variety of professions, but he was rejected each time because the court already had someone with that skill. Lugh was let in when he asked if they had anyone who could offer each of those skills rather than just one, and so was made the Chief Ollam (Ollam/Oonil?), the greatest poet/bard in Ireland; I think this is actually where D&D got the idea of bards as jack-of-all-trade characters. Well, after having said that, I’m not sure I can imagine what niche Oonil would fulfill in Orlanthi society. After all, it’s got Issaries for trade and negotiation, it’s got various gods like Gustbran and Orstan for crafts, and the Orlanthi spout poetry all the time. It's got lawspeakers and the like to recite histories and legends of importance. So what would Oonil's place be, then? I don’t have the confidence to even touch Tanian.
  6. Leingod

    Orlanth the Abuser

    From what I've read, basically all of Ernalda's myths can easily be read as essentially being, "Ernalda plays all these dumb, brutish men like fiddles so they do whatever she wants and protect her from any danger." That's almost certainly how they're all interpreted in Esrolia.
  7. Leingod

    Distinction between Sartarite Carls and Cottars?

    Orlanth and Ernalda are the gods who set down the roles that men and women are expected to perform in society. A woman who performs a man's role is a Vingan, a man who performs a woman's is Nandan, and these are accepted as having a place in society because of 1/7 thing; Orlanthi society sets down a rule for the majority, and then makes allowances for those who fall outside (within reason, Tricksters!). It's how a society devoted to a god of change and motion are able to embrace stability and tradition. And according to Heort, vingan and nandan are actual genders, along with helering (for those who, like Heler, are too fluid to be neatly slotted into these defined genders and associated roles; something the Orlanthi accept as holy to Heler but are clearly uncomfortable with).
  8. Leingod

    Eurmal cult description

    Not quite "Eurmal Deathbringer," but there are several of Eurmal's aspects (and "subcults" associated with a particular shrine that allow a Trickster to take a Proscribed Role) related to his relationship with Death. As Deadeye the Death-Finder, Eurmal can always find Death wherever it may be; Tricksters who take up this role can gain the Evil Eye, which curses those they look at, and the Deadeye, which kills them instead. When Orlanth lamented the absence of his brother Humakt, Eurmal offered to let him see him; when Orlanth agreed, Eurmal "opened his shadow eye" and showed him all around the devastation Humakt had brought with the power of Death. This vision almost drove Orlanth mad like it had Flesh Man, and he ripped Eurmal into pieces and scattered them around; these became the sites of the shrines to Deadeye the Death-Finder. Humakti can gain the same powers that Eurmali do at these (and only these) sites, so if any aspect of Eurmal would be remotely amenable to Humakt, it would probably be this one.
  9. Leingod

    Orlanth the Abuser

    That's really why so many Orlanthi men worship Orlanth: because he has such a developed mythic arc where he constantly changes (because it's what he embodies), there's some moment in Orlanth's life and experience that you can learn from no matter where you are in your own life. True, a lot of men will inevitably learn the wrong lesson from that ("as long as I try to make it right after, then it's okay if I make a rash, stupid action in the heat of the moment that hurts others" is considered a legitimate lesson to learn from the story of Orlanth killing Yelm, rather than, "If you make a mistake, you have to make it right"). This is simply inevitable with myth. But the Orlanth of his peoples' myths is very different from the Dara Happans' vision of Yelm: Yelm cannot ever be wrong to a Dar Happan, because he represents an ideal of perfect order. But all but the most foolish Orlanthi knows that his god has made many, many mistakes and had to learn from them to become better. The fundamental lesson of Orlanth's mythic cycle is basically that you are not doomed to be the asshole you start out as, so long as your mind is always open to the right Change.
  10. Leingod

    Eurmal cult description

    I imagine that's a spell or feat that would be tied to some legend of Eurmal screwing over Issaries that ends with him trading Eurmal himself away to some enemy of his as a slave (or convincing said enemy that he doesn't want them to take Eurmal to pull a reverse-psychology gambit where they run off with Eurmal instead of something valuable), thus killing two birds with one stone so that both Issaries worshipers and tricksters tell the story and take completely different lessons from it.
  11. Leingod

    Distinction between Sartarite Carls and Cottars?

    The chieftain is the chief priest of the subcult of "Orlanth as chieftain," whatever name you give him in that aspect (i.e. Dar the Leader), and it is through this that he can contact the clan's wyter. Ernalda and Elmal also have dedicated "chieftain subcults" that allow someone from these cults to take on that same role and power.
  12. Leingod

    Elmal Yelmalio thing

    Actually I just realized, that's basically exactly what happened in "Elmal Guards the Stead," too. Because of Elmal drawing Chaos's attention to Orlanth's stead, the other Vingkotlings were made safer even when he wasn't directly defending them. Well, Elmal has some minor stellar associations; Elmali are obligated to perform the Starwatch, the only night patrols in Orlanthi society, at least a few nights each year. That said, this might be partly because of Elmal's association with Rigsdal the Pole Star, who in Orlanthi society is portrayed as "the thane's thane," Elmal's loyal follower who kept watch whenever Elmal had to leave to take the "torch gift" to distant lands.
  13. Leingod

    Elmal Yelmalio thing

    Correct. In Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind you play as a Hyaloring clan descended from people from the city of Nivorah who refused to hide under the domes and instead rode out into the world under the leadership of Hyalor. In the game, they've had to migrate further south until now they're on the northern shore of the Black Eel River, with clans of Vingkotlings on the opposite shore. Much like the Grazers of the previous game, your first meeting with them is always when they raid you, and it's likely to happen more than once. Much like in King of Dragon Pass, your clan's good ending is with a foreign wedding, namely that of Beren and Redalda, which seals an alliance between the Hyalorings and Vingkotlings. For bonus points, one of the ending images is of Orlanth and Elmal as giants standing on the south and north of the river and shaking hands as friends much like their people have, echoing the later Heortling myth of the two meeting, fighting, then becoming friends on a river.
  14. Leingod

    Eurmal cult description

    When Eurmal is involved, being "Neutral" probably just means that you only beat the crap out of him when he actually does something rather than just doing it on principle.
  15. Leingod

    Elmal Yelmalio thing

    It's something I really love about "Elmal Guards the Sunpath," too. The Hyalorings worshiped Elmal as their chief god, and that story tells of how Elmal both earned and took on the mantle of the sun in Yelm's absence. It's his triumphant ascendance. And yet even in that kind of story, Elmal is still in the role of a steadfast guardian, even though here he goes out and brings the fight to the pretender suns ("sometimes the best way to defend is to attack"). Even when Elmal is attacking, he is doing it to defend something. Even when he claims the mantle of greatness, he does so only because he must, for the sake of others. And these are the qualities that the Hyalorings loved him for, and why they followed him over all other gods (and a few of their distant descendants still do!).
×