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Leingod last won the day on June 10

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About Leingod

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    Not very much. Mostly I started in Dungeons & Dragons like a lot of people, experimented with White Wolf Games, got into Pendragon because of my love of Arthurian mythos, then found Glorantha and Chaosium through King of Dragon Pass.
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    Right now? None.
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    I actually havent' played many games, even though I read a lot of gamebooks.

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  1. "The Descent From The Mountain" is actually kind of interesting to me, as it seems to me like some things are either missing or changed in the identities of the gods, which I hope is on-topic enough that bringing back this thread isn't an issue. First of all, it names the "chiefs" who each lead herds of (male) beasts: Vingkot leads bulls, Voriof rams, Vederi goats, and Varnaval ordeeds (which, yes, are a kind of antelope). And the alynxes help them with the herding. It's interesting that Vingkot is being associated with bulls here, rather than Urox or Barntar, the ones most commonly associated with those animals. Then it names the herds and herders of Ernalda's household behind: Uralda the cows, Nevala the ewes, Entra the sows, and Isbarn the poultry; again, the alynxes help the herders. Leaving aside the poultry, note that there are sows but no boars, and billies but no nannies (that is, male goats but no females). The latter probably isn't a case of avoiding mention of Thed because "we don't talk about the Unholy Trio anymore," since Ragnaglar is stuck at the very end of this story, mentioning his anger at being shown up. After that, the chiefs call on their Wild Companions. Vingkot calls the Great Bull, Voriof the Great Ram, Humakt suddenly appears in this story and summons the Great Wolf, Barntar appears suddenly to summon the Great Pig, and Varnaval the Great Andam (which I suppose is the source of the name of the Andam Horde). Orlanth proves himself the greatest by summoning Yinkin, which is likely proof because of the aforementioned fact that the alynxes have been helping everyone. A few things to note: Vederi/Ragnaglar doesn't summon a Wild Companion, even though Ragnaglar is mentioned as being angry over the results of these summonings. Vingkot is associated with bulls rather than Barntar or Urox (maybe the Great Bull is Urox, and there's some myth I don't know about where Vingkot takes Urox to heel?). Humakt seems oddly out of place with his wolf, but maybe that doesn't really mean anything except that Humakt is always that weird, intimidating guy who doesn't quite fit with the rest. And Barntar summons the Great Pig, even though I don't recall any association with him and pigs being mentioned anywhere; that and the omission of any boar-herding chief leads me to suspect it was originally either someone who was forgotten or someone who was deliberately taken out of the story in Barntar's place here. Personally, I suspect it was Harand, with Entru being the Great Pig that was his Wild Companion. That would be a nice, neat way to resolve this oddity, which, naturally, means that I'm almost certainly dead wrong.
  2. So, reading through Paladin, I got pretty interested in the story of Doon of La Roche, which is apparently one of the lesser known chansons. First question: Is there a good English translation of this story that one can acquire relatively easily/cheaply? Alternatively/secondly, has anyone here read Doon de La Roche? If so, are there any details about Doon and/or his family given in the work itself? Like, does it ever detail what Doon did that saw him marrying Princess Olive, or any characterization for the likes of Geoffrey or Doon's cousins? I ask because the House of La Roche struck me as a good fit for an important local house that the Player Knights could all be a part of that isn't too important and well-connected, so I started thinking about possible hooks for a campaign of that nature. In terms of what was already there, I figure giving Sir Tomile a reasonably powerful extended family would be a good start, who would naturally be sore over the recent events of Tomile and Audegour's deaths and the loss of La Roche and Cologne; I might even change things so that, instead of being mutilated and sent to a monastery, Malingre manages to buy/wheedle his freedom from Pepin and perhaps marry into some decently powerful “villainous” family to get the backing to continue to bedevil Landri and his relatives on his own time (which can be yet another source of tension as first Pepin and then Charlemagne are, as in so many chansons, repeatedly prevailed upon to side with the villains against the heroes, or to demand peace be made at the least convenient times). Maybe if the Player Knights make an enemy out of the family of Sir Eingar in “The Adventure of the Jewel,” Malingre manages to bank on that enmity to tie himself to them through marriage to secure more power and connections. Another (or perhaps an additional) possibility for an enemy I had in mind that was also kind of an expansion on the House of La Roche's history and connections to the rest of the Frankish nobility was inspired by the fact that, in the family tree given in the book, Doon of La Roche's grandfather is a “Drogo of La Roche,” about whom no other information is given. So, I decided to look for any prominent historical Drogo who I could draw inspiration and relationships from, and found that there was a surprisingly important and well-connected Drogo who even lived very close by: Drogo of Champagne (c. 675-708), the elder half-brother of Charles Martel and the Duke of Champagne. Said Drogo had four sons: Arnulf, who inherited the duchy; St. Hugh (d. 730), who became archbishop of Rouen; Gotfrid, and Pippin. He seems to have been considered an important figure, as several later imperial annals being their year-by-year accounts with his death, perhaps because it's considered the point where Charles Martel and his branch of the family begins to eclipse that of Drogo. There's a suggestion of at least one attempt at conciliation between these two branches in Arnulf's time, but in 723 Charles had two of Drogo's sons “bound, Arnold [Arnulf] and another who died.” It doesn't say which son died or what happened to Arnulf or the surviving son (since Hugh, as mentioned, died later). Paladin only gives the names and reigns of contemporary dukes of that area, none of whom have names that can clearly be linked to Drogo or his sons, nor does it ever mention this episode. Fertile ground for storytelling, then! So, first off, a bit more background: Drogo of Champagne was married to a certain Anstrudis (or Adaltrudis) somewhere in the late 680s/early 690s; she was the daughter of Waratto (d. 686), who served as Mayor of the Palace in Neustria and Burgundy. Waratto was temporarily ousted by his own son Gistemar, who died fighting for power over his father at some point, and after Waratto's death his successor, Anstrudis/Adaltrudis's first husband Berthar, went to war with Pepin of Herstal (father of both Drogo and Charles Martel) and fled after being defeated and then quarreling with and murdering his mother-in-law over the terms of the peace. Pepin then took over Neustria and Burgundy as Mayor of the Palace and wed Waratto's daughter to his oldest son, Drogo. It's important to note that Waratto's properties were mostly located in the vicinity of Rouen, and that Champagne was on the border between Neustria and Austrasia, reasonably close to Rouen (where, of course, Hugh eventually became archbishop as well as acquiring several monasteries); it might be that, without any male heirs (and the backing of Pepin of Herstal), Drogo was for all intents and purposes the heir of all Waratto's properties, so we could easily imagine some reasonably close connections between the ruling houses of Champagne and Normandy (or at least the County of Rouen) here, for further fun color. This marriage thus served to secure Pepin of Herstal greater power and connections in Neustria, but likely became seen as more of a liability during Charles Martel's reign. My running idea, then: In 723, what happened was that Arnulf and either Gotfrid or Pippin were plotting against Charles, but the third brother and possibly also Hugh of Rouen revealed the plot, which led to the imprisonment of Arnulf and his brother and said brother's death in captivity. Arnulf himself, however, was either restored to his duchy or else was just forced to retire to a monastery in favor of a young heir who could be raised as a hostage. Hugh of Rouen was given charge of Fontanelle Abbey in 723 (and next year was also given the administration of the dioceses of both Paris and Bayeux), which we could spin as a reward for his loyalty, while the other brother was made the first Count of La Roche (probably at least in part to a.) guard against any further disloyalty from the House of Champagne, and b.) provide said house with a powerful “traitor” to focus all their enmity on rather than on Charles himself), and his son Drogo was the Drogo of La Roche given as Doon's grandfather. This probably requires some very young births for the math to work, admittedly, since Doon of La Roche was fathering illegitimate children as early as 733, but I think it adds some interesting possibilities. For one, there's the obvious point that the House of Champagne likely despises their “traitorous” relatives in neighboring La Roche, or at least that there's a simmering feud that flares up at least once a generation. Additionally, remembering that Charles Martel died in 741 and Pepin and Carloman split the kingdom between themselves, with Carloman getting Austrasia, we could suppose that Pepin being the one to marry his sister to Doon (with Cologne as the dowry) the very next year was some calculated attempt to undermine the loyalty Doon should have owed to Carloman, perhaps as a reply to some similar attempt by Carloman to court their distant relatives in Champagne. Or, to make things much simpler, we could change things as written so that it was Carloman who married Olive to Doon to secure his borders (keeping in mind that La Roche is described as the strongest fortress in the Ardennes region in addition to being a border region, at least if we suppose that Champagne has come to be seen as a part of Neustria rather than a border between the two), rather than Pepin the Short. So yeah, that's what I've got so far. Any thoughts/answers/corrections/etc. would be appreciated, as this is kind of new territory for me.
  3. They were (are, technically, as there's 3 Shakers left as of the last time I checked) also celibate, which doesn't quite match Maran Gor's situation, but the general idea that you don't marry or have kids fits well enough, as does the setup of communal orders surrounded by non-communal sympathizers track reasonably well with the situation of the Tarsh Exiles.
  4. More a silly headcanon than a theory: Every elemental Rune has a particular method of unarmed combat attached to it, and for Earth that's grappling, which is why Earth deities and worshipers tend to be excellent wrestlers. Barntar is acknowledged as the best wrestler of the Thunder Brothers, for instance, but that's because he's favored by his mother's side of the family and was taught some of their secret wrestling moves by his mother and aunts. (I don't really have anything in mind for the others, except that Darkness gods and worshipers are definitely scrappers who see nothing wrong with biting and scratching; it's a rare fistfight between Uz that doesn't end in someone getting an ear bitten off). Now that makes me imagine the story of Amaterasu hiding herself in a cave and the gods having a loud party to entice her out of hiding, but with Yelm and the Lightbringers.
  5. No, they're called "quakers." (Actually, does anyone but me crack a smile every time the "Shaker Temple" is brought up because it calls to mind the obscure Christian sect called the Shakers, a.k.a. the "Shaking Quakers"? I feel like it has to have been an intentional joke on someone's part)
  6. I mean, according to Homer, the color of the sea can be described as "bronze."
  7. The funny thing is that in 5e there's a period where they changed (most of) the Anglicized names into Celtic/Brythonic/Roman/etc. where possible and into more fanciful, descriptive names when it wasn't. Problem is that it was a big adjustment to ask of people who'd been using all the Anglicized names and now needed to consult a list to know what names were referring to where (which is another advantage that's lost in ditching the modern names; you can't just look on a map if you aren't sure where Sockburn is) that was also a lot of work, so by the time the 5.2 corebook is released they've switched back. I'm actually in favor of not using the modern, Anglicized names personally, but they tried it and decided it wasn't worth all the trouble and confusion.
  8. Or maybe names like "Yelm" and "Elmal" are simply being translated into their more recognizable modern forms for our benefit to keep things accessible to new players or people who only know Glorantha from King of Dragon Pass, which would also explain why Orlanth isn't being addressed as "Umatum" or some other Peloricized name you'd expect Dara Happan refugees to be referring to him by.
  9. Depends on which kind of plow you're using. The lodril plow? Absolutely, that's his wife after all.
  10. Plenty of Heortlings and Sartarites seem to cultivate fruits already. There are clans named for fruits or with nicknames referring to fruits (the Antorling are called the "Apple Clan," there's a Cinsina clan called the Blueberry, the Konthasos are named after the goddess of grapes and are called the "Wine Clan"), and one of the oldest adventures set in Sartar takes place in a hamlet called Apple Lane. EDIT: Found a relevant passage from Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes:
  11. Depends on who you ask. It runs the gamut from "he was a treacherous asshole who was almost as bad as Gbaji" to "he was a flawed hero, but he still saved us in the end" to "he was really cool, and all that 'betrayal' stuff is definitely not true."
  12. The way it's described in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes is that the plowman "turns the Earth to meet the Air." So, in the Heortling view, you're uniting husband and wife to make the land fertile so that Ernalda's daughters (the crops) can be born and grow. Barntar himself is repeatedly described as the link between the powers of Air and Earth, as much Ernalda's son as Orlanth's even if he isn't allowed to know the deeper mysteries of life and fertility (merely being the facilitator of it). Further, Barntar is described as Ernalda's favorite son, and there's no mention of any enmity or hostility directed his way from Maran or Babeester (in fact the former tried to keep him as a thrall once and put him to work for her), so it doesn't seem like the Earth goddesses treat Barntar's plowing as a rape or defilement or any such kind of crime or injustice (and if it were, Babeester in particular would have a lot to say about it, and her axe would be doing the talking). Of the Earth goddess I'm aware of only Aldrya hates that kind of thing, but only on the principle that she wants wild forests instead of farmlands and doesn't care about what anyone else wants or needs. That's sort of how you get what's called a "triaty," a small three-clan tribe seen in the Human Resettlement where men of Clan A only marry women from Clan B, men from Clan B only marry women from Clan C, and men from Clan C only marry women from Clan A (potentially you could also reverse this with male exogamy, which may well be what the Tree Triaty did, we don't actually know much about them). It's a good way to help cut down on inbreeding and ensure strong relationships in a tense situation where you don't know your neighbors (and may not have any for a while) and your population is quite small.
  13. Argrath's an honorable man right up until it gets in the way of killing the Lunars, at which point, Illuminate he is, he casts it aside without a thought and doesn't face the normal consequences of doing so.
  14. Plus he was already marked out for special things since his initiation (at least if we take the webcomic as canon), given that he managed to get through all of the optional stations of the initiation quest when very few can even complete the first.
  15. The old world's gotta die to make room for the new world. As for whether the new one is better than the old...? Eh. Hail Harshax!
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