French Desperate WindChild

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I get that. I'm saying they could get to 21 easily enough, then Enhance INT. You'd basically need to, to get to 27/28. That's a +6/7enhancement.

 

Firstly, need to remember - 9 points for 1 day, 12 for a week, 17 for 1 year... So, even for a pretty short duration - unless it's purely for a few minutes, is going to be expensive in Free INT.

Secondly, 2 FI & MP for +1, 6 for +2, 10 for +3, 14 for +4, 18 for +5, and 22 for +6. You *need* at least 4 to get the additional +1 to re-do the improvement.

So, if you start at 14 INT, and no duration, you can get to 18 INT... which can get you an extra +1 improved on the next casting - ie, 19. 

Therefore, you can really only get to 28 if you start with a really high INT. 21 INT (and inscribed spell) gets you to 26 (+5), and on a second casting to 28 (INT +7). For woot! A whole 10 minutes!!! Slightly useful for some occasions.

NB - not including inscriptions, you *need* to start with a natural 21 INT to get to 28!!! 

Now, having 4 INT  points in inscriptions (14 POW) however, would be extreme munchkinnerry! (If GM allowed). Combine with 4point POW Enhancing crystal for added fun!

conclusion :  for specialist sorcerer , the rules are very well thought !

16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

On the other hand, it does become far more expensive at the higher levels, and typically, it's money and not time that limits your training in RQ (trainer pay is ridiculous).

I fully agree : I think it is easier to start / learn a new language than to become a fluent guy (i have this experience in english 😛 ) that's why I would prefer a curve.

Same : easy to learn how to be stable on a horse, difficult to learn how to charge chaos monster  on a horse

and I like a lot the concept of "between adventures" with community role/experience :

If the PC wants to be a full student, well, he/she must lose money, lose community role / power / influence (be a leader is also a full time activity except maybe high king / high priest), lose role xp check

my issue is not how to become the super hero, it is more to allow people to change a way, learn new thing.

Let see a ernaldan farmer. She does'nt know anything about weapon *. She dedicates all her time to the clan feed. But for any reason, she wants / needs to become a warrior (maran, vingan, whatever)

How much time to become just professional ?

1season = +4% for 1 skill (role + training),  +2% for other occupational training

In one year she has ~50% in only one of her new activity core  skills. It seems hard to change.

* start with ~25/30% in sword AND axe AND bow AND spear AND dagger for a "standard" sartarite woman who is culturally not dedicated to fight seems to be too much, doesn't it ? I would prefer a gender table

training is one of the few rules that are from my perspective a regression between RQ:G and RQ3

the main concern is not the full time needed to learn a skill from 0 to 100

it is more the learning curve :

In RQ:G you need the same time to move from 10% to 12% and to move from 98% to 100%

In RQ3 10 hours versus 98 hours

The new rule is cleary easier to apply. I didn't check if a full training  to become a master  (from 0 to 90) is faster or lower. It is just the curve wich seems to me less realistic

13 hours ago, g33k said:

I'd presume, for a leader-type like Orlanth, introducing disputes and upset into the community is undesirable... UNLESS something needs to change.  Sometimes change IS needed, and Orlanth has been known to disrupt the status quo once or twice...   OTOH, stirring a pot of merde just to see how many people they can make retch... that's more Eurmal than Orlanth.

So in the end... it depends.

MGF -- what would be Most Fun at your table?

that's more Eurmal I think so

Well, for the fun, there are two answers : the rpg fun table (you are right) and also the glorantha world understanding

From my perspective, Glorantha is not a background for RPG, it is more, a great artistic/intellectual/philosophical/{don't know what} creation. Some of you (creators or "sage") have a large knowledge scope about earth myths / religions / spirit societies. More than I have although I like this topic.

From a "rule" perspective I could define what to do with religious run, spell etc... But with my knowledge of european myths (better from average people, but ridiculous compared with what humanity knows) I think I may miss something from the creators intention because I don't know enough. My glorantha may vary but that is the choice of god learner: your heroquest may vary, is it good to change goddesses ?

My best fun here is to learn and open my mind more than collect the funny rule

13 hours ago, g33k said:

I would ask -- does the God care?  If they are backing (with Rune Magic, DI for followers, etc) two different approaches, then (self-evidently) they like both.  As noted, Orlanth has many faces.  I'm not at all clear that the underlying assumption is correct, that there even  IS  one, true, "ultimate" Orlanth, a "platonic ideal" Orlanth.  OTOH, I'm not sure there's not.

 

15 hours ago, metcalph said:

Orlanth has many incarnations or associated mountains - Kero Fin, Quivin, Top of the World etc.  It is possible that what may be lawful and proper in one place (oe the Land around Kero Fin) may be considered evil in another (ie in Fronela).  These are clashes of the Incarnations rather than clashes of the supreme God.

I had an issue with time / Time as there is a kind of time before the Time (Great compromise):

Before Time there was a before and an after each story : Orlanth is lightbringer AFTER Sun killer for example.

If you reenact by heroquesting to kill a Sun representative you should have a kind of chaos/darkness impact in your life / community if you succeed, then you may have to reenact the lightbringer quest too to fix it.

Now I have an other issue: the land incarnation. Zeus is Zeus everywhere (I think) and when Romans decided Jupiter= Zeus, if there  were (i don't know) religious clashes there were explained (I think) as clashes between greeks and romans not between Zeus A and Zeus B.

So how can you explain that ? Is there some earth religion with this kind of Incarnations clashes (not human conflicts)  that can enlight me ?

14 hours ago, scott-martin said:

At my table I would run this as a kind of Spirit Combat where Ugly and the priest both make their case. This might be a ritual ordeal, a theological debate in front of the community, silent prayer or something else. Either way, God decides whether Ugly has wandered too far from orthodoxy.

a good idea, thanks !

and don't forget you are not alone. You may have to protect some weaker people so attacking multiple ennemies (splitting attack then) to be focused by them  can be the plan. If you are a protector / hero / or just proud warrior, don't try the math, try to kill lot of people.

Bonjour everyone

I m afraid that I m becoming illuminated, seeing the truth beyond the mundane world. My main issue is my myopia and beyond is very far so need your help...

My question is both RP & GP

Two priests of the same god can disagree.

For example, I know that we can find Orlanth in many countries, in many forms (I am not talking about subcult)

Heortling, Aeolianism, EWF, Carmanian, Safelstran, Henotheist, storm tribes in Pent ... maybe Arkatism ? (I don't realy understand what is Arkatism in third age or before)

The differences are numerous and more or less acceptable by " the other" : slavery, caste, shaman, sorcery, dragon as ennemy or ally or final transformation, beard, acceptable cult for marriage etc..

But what is the view of the god himself ?

For exemple

Ugly is a member of The Community (let's say Heortling) at least an Initiate (with Rune Magic) why not a god talker.

Adventuring, he learns some secrets from a Orlanthi wanderer from another "strange big cult" (let's say Henotheist)

After a big success he goes back home, with or without saying what he learned.

One day, Ugly is reported breaking major religious taboo (according to The Community Priest) when he just follows the teachings (personal rite / sacrifice / spell / sing / sex activity, etc..) of the wanderer

What does happen ?

As a social impact, he can be outlawed or killed, ok

As a religious impact, the Priest will probably try to excommunicate him.

What will happen ?

• the excommunication will succeed, because the Priest has the power, don't care the god. In GP, Ugly looses his rune powers, reprisals spirits will play with him.
• the excommunication will partially succeed,  because the god accepts the worship from the "strange big cult" (the proof ? the "strange big cult" obtains blessing from Orlanth). In GP,  No more Heortling Priest will recognize Ugly as an initiate and refuse him to participate any ceremony (of course social impact can exist). Ugly will keep his rune powers as usual, can replenish his rune points (when he will be able to partipate to ceremonies, somewhere)
• the excommunication will failed, because Orlanth refuses it. In GP, The Community Priest will continue his job, rejecting Ugly, but other Heortling Priests will not know anything from the god (Ugly is still an heortling initiate). Yes they can learn by social means and decide to manage it as they want
• the excommunication will fumble, because Orlanth refuses it. In GP a lighting bolt will easly explain that The Community Priest was wrong

Of course the success level I describe is not from a dice roll, but from a god decision

there is no rule what I know, (RQ:G;  previously oriflam french RQ) that explain you can not suceed a spell (excomunication or other) when you break the will of the God, at least in the mundane plan. What happen if I use Thunderbolt on my brother for example ? Will I kill my brother then curse the clan and be outlawed for kinstrife ? Or Will Orlanth refuse the Thunderbolt, saving my brother, then no curse the clan, and show me the shame of my wish ?

1 hour ago, Crel said:

I suspect the "official" ruling in this case would be that if your INT goes down, you lose the additional mastered Runes/Techniques.

And it could be a nice plan to reduce a sorcerer power : do what you can to let him no time / magic to prevent him from "reload" enhance Int (when a strong dispell Magic is not enough)

You may need two years and a lot of warriors but at the end of the day (and the end of thousand men) you succed to beat the great villain.

Or you might succeed the lightbringer quest and find someone (something ?) stronger and faster than an army

35 minutes ago, styopa said:

Not to mention the brutalist breakpoint of the 13 INT.   Very retro?  13 INT you can learn this stuff, 12 = nope, sorry, you're too stupid to even grasp the basics.

13 is the average score for human Int.

Sorcery is one of the more complex thing to understand for a gloranthan (with illumination)

You're too stupid to use sorcery ? you can use spirit magic

You're too weak to use great sword ? you can use a dagger or... you can run

The spell skill can also be seen as "remember" how to cast that spell

Thanks for your answers

17 hours ago, lordabdul said:

To interact with a God in any constructive way (such as a normal conversation) would mean that the God is able to act in Time, which goes against the Great Compromise. Of course a few things, like Divination and Divine Intervention, are kind of loopholes.

Yes they interact with a lot of limitations, bu they intercat with mundane world. In an other way, we can imagine that it is not the god who come into mundane world but the mortal who interact with otherwolrd (it was more what I thought) Albert never signed the Great Compromise

17 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Lankhor Mhy cultists are supposed to be searching for the Truth. They're scientists and philosophers. If you could casually call up your God and ask him to double-check your homework, that would be cheating, wouldn't it? Worse, it could be seen as an insult, as you're supposed to be searching for Knowledge, not be told what it is! So even if Lankhor Mhy could/wanted to break the Compromise, I don't think he would do it for that.

Yes of course. It was just an example of complex interaction (not the question /answer system of divination)

Imagine a great singer who can move even a God but is desperate and refuses any heal of priests. She need (not want) to know something that she believe only her god can answer / explain / ... What can happen

And it was also an eurmali riddle Who Is Albert , What is E-ntropy, M-oon, and C-haos x 2 (ok I am not a true eurmali ok ok )

17 hours ago, lordabdul said:

IMHO Lankhor Mhy doesn't care about it -- it's most probably a rule that the cult imposes on themselves. It's not even tied to any actual mechanics so nothing forces you to wear a beard besides social pressure. You could totally play a character (of any gender, for that matter) that refuses to wear a beard. They would probably get shunned a lot by the Lankhor Mhy temple priests, but that can be an interesting theme and story to explore.

Haha you succeed in the second riddle, it is my next topic

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Or more likely the deity will simply enslave the shaman. Or eat their soul, etc.

Very very probably.

12 hours ago, soltakss said:

Unless you are giving your knowledge to the deity, perhaps by sharing it as a Hero Subcult.

if knowledge is the subject, that also what I mean

Bonjour à toutes et tous

I m not sure to use the good words, but let's try to be understandable

If a mortal (human, dark troll, ...) wants to meet a god and be viewed by the god as himself (not with the mask of somegod the god knows) what can it try ?

What I know:

- Divination : but the discussion could be frustrating as very short and unclear

- Shaman: at least in RQG, shaman can negotiate with a god so that means the go recognize the shaman as the shaman, doesn't it ?

- Heroquest: but here you are not yourself; you incarnate another god, or some way are possible ?

An example :

Albert is a young scientist that nobody understand. He just discoverd that "Entropy" Rune is equal to "Moon" Rune  merged with two "Chaos" Rune.

Albert wants this discovery to be validate by some skilled people. But he doesn't know anyone.

Except... Albert knows the knowing God, so he wants to discuss about the discovery, what are the impact, how  he can continue his research, some advises, and why not after a beer or two, discuss about the %*!!* rule of woman beard etc...

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

To piggyback (...)

thank you sir, it was a nice moment to read it

15 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Bienvenue!

Good point, but I still, narratively speaking, like the idea that a well-prepared sorcerer can do amazing things. I would probably rule that you can pre-store MPs in advance, which means that the first casting is immediate (or almost immediate) and free (as you're using the stored MP in the inscribed spell). So kinda like a POW storage crystal, but without the need to spend SRs to transfer the MP "out" of the crystal and into the casting (because they're "already there"). Any subsequent casting of the (now "empty") inscribed spell requires MP expenditure from the caster. So for the first few turns, the sorcerer can use his various tablets and accessories and bling-bling, but if his opponents survive, things get a bit tougher as the spells suddenly take extra turns to cast and need MP.

Ha I didn't see it like that !

in this case my " Hate MP savings" is becoming " "Mistrust MP savings"

It could be tested

the main issue I see is from a RP perspective :

why people teach you sorcery and will accept you go in adventure ? 

Aeolian --> to be a "like invisible god  priest" or to be a "super" (warrior / farmer / crafter / adventurer) with sorcery power (depending of the spell known)

Lankhor Mhy --> from a religious aspect, can you learn other spells than "research truth" spells type ?

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

Iron is a strange and terrible thing.

yes more terrible than I believed

that is the biggest info for me, it is not only craft, it is "power" => no pain no smith

Bonne année à tous

Thanks a lot for your answers and there details. For someone who doesn't know anything about metal working (IRL) and with poor english, it is a little bit difficult to master all these data so I will read it several times to try to cath so much knowledge !

To resume what I understood :

- for human (dwarf skills are for dwarf), use redsmith to make things with bronze and any other metal (except iron, maybe quicksilver too ?)

- if a human wants to craft Iron he must join Humakt(possible but big sacrifice) or Third Eye (hu a little bit harder, isn't it). I suspect that become a dwarf slave will not give you the knowledge (risk to see the knowledge go outside)

Jeff gave a terrible news: the gods who know enchant iron don't know smith iron.

- the last solution is to go in heroquest, for sure, but not so sure, to much danger during and after the heroquest for a person "who just want to smith"

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I give Sword Trance parrying; it's part of Sword-ing (bow-parrying is NOT a part of archery, however!).

I think it's a mis-read of Arrow Trance to think that parrying is disallowed from all Trance-y spells, that's just a specific feature of archery.

+1

parrying with a sword could give you opportunity to attack better

parrying with a bow should give you only... a broken bow ?

The secret of metal is very hard for me to manage..

I never succeed to find clear rules about smithing (or other craft)

Skills :

- Redsmith: Works bronze for weapons, armor, and other implements (RQG p65 adventurer occupation, p186 skills,)

- Craft Bronze: (RQG p296 humakt cult skills) I agree it is redsmith

- Craft Iron: (RQG p296 humakt cult skills)

and for the dwarves (p58 Bestiary) :

 Metal Lore / Redsmithing / Coppersmithing / Craft Gold / Secret of Iron / Silversmith / Tinsmith /

And maybe others

Then... does that mean that a (XX)Smith is not able to craft another metal ? I am a redsmith ==> am I unable to craft silver / copper / gold / iron if I have no skill ? Or at -x% malus ?

Should we conclude there is NO skill about armor smithing, weapon smithing, dedicated tool smithing ?

What is metal lore ? should a human redsmith have this knowledge ? How to use it ?

Is "Secret of Iron" ( iron dwarf) the same skill than "craft Iron" (Humakt cult skill)

Now let say my sister is a master redsmith (150%) and know a little bit ironsmith (40%) and silversmith (60%) (yes my sister is a bizarre wind child, did'nt say that previously ?)

She wants to craft 3 swords (1 bronze, 1 iron, 1 silver) Does that mean she rolls again 150% for the bronze, 40 for the iron and 60 for silver ?

or a mix:   she succeed iron test then the she can roll her best skill (150) to obtain a better quality (like "if you are a good smith and you know this metal, you can use fully/partially your best skill) ?

That's for the rule, now, for the story telling

Jojo is sartarite, iniate (hu... initiate / lay member / great iniate... it was clearer for me before RQG but it is another story) of Gusbran (or Orlanth , at least a "civil cult" ==> not Humakt)

So  he knows how to craft bronze sword but has no idea how to manage iron.

What can he do to learn the secret ?

Is there heroquest for that ? If a son of Gusbran succeed (I don't remember the humakti guy) is any quester of Gusbran able to find the secret, without becoming a slave of the death ?

Is there easier way ?

Find a big temple of a big god (Orlanth ?) as they are able to supply weapon for their rune lords ?

Where should he go ? What is the price ?

Bonjour mesdames et messieurs

My first post here ! Sorry for my english, I hope I will be clear and not rude 😛

I like a lot how sorcery is described now (more than all house rules I saw with saints, etc... years ago) but it is clear that we need more clarifications.

On 12/26/2019 at 5:29 PM, lordabdul said:

This to me is more indicative of one of the problems with Sorcery. First, the spells listed in RQG are only examples, so one can imagine different ways to enhance your INT. Second, I frankly can't picture why the Fire Rune, more than the others, would help with enhancing INT. If I wanted a "water-themed" sorcerer, I would probably allow a Water-based form of Enhance INT, instead of wasting a Free INT point for a Rune that doesn't fit the character concept. Of course some rules-lawyery people might say "but that's not what RAW says!", but the whole point of a free-form magic system is... well, to be free-form.

My vision :

A sorcerer manipulates powers from runes. From my perspective, a sorcerer must use Fire Rune to enhance Int not because the spell listed in RQG says that but

page 48 :

[Fire/Sky The element of Fire/Sky is purification. It destroys polluting matter and withdraws upward from the Material World. It is the Sky Dome and the stars, with its greatest manifestation being the fiery Sun that brings light and warmth to the world.
Characteristic: INT Personality: To have a strong affinity with Fire/Sky means to be pure, chaste, idealistic, and perceptive. Sense: Scan Skill Category: Perception Weapons: Spear, bow Organs: Brain, sinew Color: Yellow Metal: Gold Phylum: Bird]

So your sorcer wants to enhance or reduce Int ? He must manipulate Fire rune. He wants to enhance perception Skill --> fire rune. He wants to play with his opponent size ? He must manipulate Darkness rune.

That's not sorcery rule,that's gloranthan runes rule. (Note that, if I had to define link between elements and characteristics, I am not sure I would choose the same than gloranthan rules, but the power in glorantha are described like that)

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

Apparently it needed this discussion to make the authors and editors recognize the potential for misunderstanding.

 

I think it was a clarification by David Scott which made me arrive at this interpretation, and which made me rethink a possible inscribing strategy from the perspective of a player of a sorcerer.

Hence my question (still unanswered) if you can inscribe spells that you only have inferred rune and/or technique at all, and if you can, whether 1 POW still equals 1 intensity (or range,, or duration) or only 1 MP in the spell.

I fear what will be the conclusion of inscribing spells impact. I hope there is no MP saving (free INT yes, SR yes, but mp ...)

Role play : as a magician, you must channel your energy in order to create your spell. Great power has a great cost, no pain no gain

Game play : if MP are saved, that means that you can indefinitely cast snow balls to your ennemies. Well... after 10 POW you are just.. like a god (ok 20 POW perhaps) ? In fact that is exactly the same to have bladesharp XXX on your blade all the time.

My two guilders