French Desperate WindChild

46 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

What you need for this job is a shield (small one for nicer optics) with the Earth Shield spell on it. Then it's all good.

(Supposedly the "Unbreakable Sword" would also work, if it's properly named.)or

it is better but not enough :  "Knockback attacks still affect the holder of the shield"

my view :

I considere mundane skill only able to manage character referential activity (size, speed, magic, etc..) To manage overpowered activity the character must have super power

a mundane olympic fencer  succeed to parry with his sword a tree or a triceratops, or a IRL car, I name this success a "crash test"

a mundane olympic Skjaldmö with the Earth Shield succeed to parry with her shield a tree or a triceratops or a IRL car, I name this success a "first and last flight lesson" (yes earth rune can give you fly power !, only issue she didn't learn how to land)

a hero with heroquest power dedicated to protection (a super sayan Earth Shield power) may survive

there is parade and there is dodge

I cannot imagine too that with a sword you can do anything against a 10 meters tree or a rhino

You may succeed to dodge the tree

but are you able to dodge the sun falling on you ?

28 minutes ago, Manu said:

I need some comments on these sorcery spells

Slow (Summon, Stasis)

This spell double de SR (Melee SR or Dex SR) of any action of the target (if POW vs POW fails). The target could not act at all if the Melee SR + weapon SR is more than 12.

 

Solid water (Combine Water, Stasis)

This spell makes a surface of water totally motionless for 3 cubic meter +1 cubic meter/strength of the spell. It become solid enough to block a passage (str = 3/strength of the spell) or to walk onto it.

 

Create wall of water

As the wall of flame but with water (no possibility to light anything, but everything is wet afterwards)

 

Please comment if you like

Slow : I would prefer + 1 (or 2) RA per level of spell strength, and I agree with @Akhôrahil

Solid water :  which surface. Seems too powerful compared with "calm water" in the rules

Create wall of water : seems ok to me, at least it is = to other element. but... as water is physically  heavier than fire / shadow / air and move more than earth, maybe adding stasis and combine : summon water to "create the wall" then combine and stasis to keep the wall (if not water falls)

2 hours ago, Bohemond said:

1) Can the Aldryami be brought back as the Undead?

no answer but a though :

As Aldryami are plants, they follow the life - death - rebirth cycle, don't they ?

It seems to me a different "way of life" than troll / human / duck / etc..

3 minutes ago, White Coke said:

Perhaps Elmali could get fire powers through a Heroquest about helping Yelm at the first Dawn? Something to do with returning the role of the sun to Yelm and rule over the world to Orlanth. In exchange they allow Elmal to exercise some of their power.

or a kind of secret subcult "order / drive Yelm Power" where elmali can learn fire spirit magic. After all what I understand is Elmal drives Yelm , doesn't he ?

but personaly I m ok with the official RQG (Y)Elmal(io) cult

I am not sure you need fire power when you live among people who dance naked under rain and manage wind so strongly that will extinguish your riduculous flame (you re just the little "yo", not "YELM" after all)

Your powers are elsewhere : courageous, loyal, among friends with initiative (not like alone Yelm with slaves under orders)

Last and not least, you are not the deceived husband of Ernalda (but you can become her lover) So why Elmali would like more  ? 😛

thanks all (and mainly  @jajagappa) for that

you cannot imagine how richer is the day after reading you

I think there is something that "vieux grognards" (a canadian fool barbarian term I mean )  have to keep in mind and another for the "marie-louises" (the opposite : young men from the last Napoleon army)

"vieux grognards" : Glorantha is rich, very very rich. So rich that it is a heavy weight for a lot of people (not all, off course) And then, you can find a GM's desire to not disturb the world, not go in a "wrong" direction. This desire may become  an obstruction (to creativity, to decision, ..) just because they respect too much the world.

"marie-louise" : your players succeed to save Kallyr ? Don't care for the next campaign, change some names, skip a scenario, adapt another one, etc... keep in mind what the step 4 highlight: suicide squad to help Argath, transfom that in suicide squad to help Kallyr.

I succeed to manage in third age a campaign designed in second age with few changes like that godlearner = lunar (because sorcery) so ewf = orlanthi (for example). What the godlearner can fly and the vessel is a main topic of a scenario ? well moon boat, or change with just "boat on the river" don't care, the highlight is not they fly, the highlight is "how to go to their vessel"

but it is clear the harder part of RQG HQ etc is  the PC are not average characters, they are people who will change a predefined world.

No issue with timeline about harreck, argrath, kallyr, jar eel if you meet them once or twice in your life and your acts cannot alterate their fate. Big issue if you are "the key piece" of their play

On 9/10/2019 at 1:40 PM, Jeff said:

I've circulated a few chapters of it to some key people. For me, that and the Cults book are the most interesting things I've worked on since... I dunno RQG itself.

You're a so bad guy to say that, it is a torture to wait 😛

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

 is there a RW example where people anthropomorphised a natural phenomenon that they need to survive into a god that they shun?

 

natural desire = lucifer ?

5 hours ago, lordabdul said:

So the only two options are "play by the dice" or "play by the 40 years of published canon lore"? Nah, I'm very much OK with pitching a cult to a player and if it somehow resonates with them, they can play however they want within the broad boundaries. There are enough "balances and checks" in place in the form of Runes and Passions to keep them in the archetype... and for the rest, isn't collaborative worldbuilding the whole philosophy here? There's no "one right way" to play any cult IMHO.

 

I said only "play by dice" or "invest time to understand more", yes passion / rune helps, but you need to know a little bit. I fully agree of collaborative worldbuilding is the best way.

All depends on the "new". Is he/she able to wait for your explanation some time or not.

My view is,

- if you have players who want to start quickly, start with average local guys (sartarite = ernalda / orlanth, praxian, well there is not a lot of choice, etc...) and visit their local world in one or two scenarii (fest /cult / delegate mission / ...) to meet each "archetype" describe attitude and see what they like for them. Then create the true pc

- if you have more patient / literacy / autonomous players, propose them to read extract of RQG / gagogagogu /

- if you have more patient / hearer players propose a session of "discovery"

As player, I prefer to read on my side, then discuss with GM. As GM it depends on the players and their wish. If it is clear and archetypal, let start with the cult I (GM) think is good (or few choices with explanation). If not, let discover the world (local, don't care kralori, western, etc at the beginning) by the way the GM and the players are comfortable

2 hours ago, JustAnotherVingan said:

They're the psychopaths dressed in black all too often.

Like the Humakti who cured a plague by killing everyone who had it including himself (forget where I read that).

Not every Humakti is quite that fanatical ofc but the further you go in the cult the more you resemble Humakt who is not a nice god.

Agree

I woudl'nt recommand an humakti / xxx-gor to a "new" player, Orlanth or Stormbull for power or roleplaying, (Y)Elmal(io) or Yelm or Argan argar for roleplaying and power on specific opponent.

Humakt, Maran  and other fanatical and very dedicated cults need to understand a lot of lore to be well played (except if you play only with the dice not the lore, your pleasure may vary)

I make a difference with Stormbull because  it is a very "easly understandable" dedicated cult (kill the bad = chaos, drink, laugh, break what you want..)

Just now, lordabdul said:

That's the type of comparative description that would be very welcome in CoG/GaGoG or in the Gamemaster Guide. The "Nature of the Cult" section of the Cults of Prax write-up format is good at describing the cult, but is often not enough to compare similar cults together in order to pick one. A whole chapter on "Choosing your Cult" with comparisons including both gameplay and roleplaying considerations would be super useful IMHO.

I would prefer (but your proposal is a progress, for sure) a description of cultural block, and roles of each people / values / organization then why not comparison.

I discovered here (after more than 20 years of glorantha lay membership) that Lunars follow both yelm and red moon pantheons. From my previous understanding that the relationship between seven mothers and solars was a little bit like Yelm cultists and Lodrili cultist : Shut up ! I am the boss and you don't exist except to serve

22 minutes ago, Jeff said:

As Yelmalions say, "Humakt makes warriors, Yelmalio makes soldiers." They stand and fight, not because they wield the power of the god (who was stripped of his powers by his foes), but because they will themselves as fragile mortals to do so. Yelmalio is worshiped not because of his incredible power (in the end, he is just the Light in the Darkness or the cold Mountain Sun) but because he did not give up in the Greater Darkness. He kept fighting for us mortals even though he had been robbed, wounded, and weakened. When you fight in the line, you too must keep in place and formation - not because you are a god, but because you are a mortal and now fight for Yelmalio as he did for your ancestors.

 

I like this (well I would dislike to live in a sundome but i would dislike to live in any gloranthan society I think)

Morality : Yelmalio may not be for munchkin ("gros bill" in french, don't know why) but is very interesting for any drama (like probably all other gods, story and climax depend on the player good will, not the god power)

self sacrifice, solidarity, rigor, discipline, sexism, xenophobia, that is so beautifull !

In a "fighting" scenario, how many opponents are facing players, how many times ?

I mean, ok, against barbarians, a Yelmalio is a little bit poor with rune magic, in one fight, compared to Orlanth adventurous or Humakt rune magic.

But after 2 fights by day, how many rune magic can be still used ?

And just in a battle, after the first "burn rune magic 15 minutes" do you think that yelmalio will not able to fight like others (maybe more then) ? And Elmal shield will protect like others during these 15min

What if the adventure is a 2 weeks travel in dorastor / prax or I don't know, field where you will find many many opponents who will charge on sight ?

If I had to optimize a warrior creation, I m not sure that the every time bonus given by Yelmalio are less good than few time greater bonus from other gods. I would focus on n x 100%skill + 5 bladsharp + iron + matrix + ... than on one very efficient but just one time effect. And Yelmalio can give you a greater "n" (bow master gift, lance master gift, ...) than others gods

My feeling, (now, maybe in opposition with the crowd) is rune magic is less powerful for good level character (and in RQG new pc are already good level character) than shaman magic+power.

11 hours ago, Joerg said:

For comparison, try writing French with just the characters used by English, and no transliterating "sœur" as "soeur" - either use "seur" or "sour". No accents. Ca va? 

(...)

And then goes on to say that Elasa script has a different vocabulary, relies on context, etc. - even if you were able to draw the "letters", would you be able to write the meanings when what you write is just a kenning of a code phrase? The Elasa script might come across as something similar to Cockney Rhyming Slang.

 

you exactly saying what I mean. Just reading/writing latin (theyalan ) signs cannot be enough to understand french and english and german and spanish .... (esrolan, tarshite, stormspeech, sartarite, "elasa concepts" ...) except if signs represent "idea" and not "sound"

just with our discussion here, I think that I understand 60 - 80 % of your last post, and I even not sure (50-60%) that my own posts are what I want to say and not the opposite (that the reason I try several ways to explain).

I would be happy if I were touched by LM (except the bearded wife rule #!@?* requirement).. Or I will choose Issaries (don't say me there are some kind of #!@?^ requirement here)

Edit "seur" could be understood : that the same sound (with imagination, if you accept an english domination on letters,  but I think it is impossible for a lot of french berserkers : here is a very hard breach of the "impossible n'est pas français" requirement)

I didn't read this topic before today, like @lordabdul

Just to say, without any anger, that I used one time the pregen to better understand the creation process. I didn't find any issue between the example and the rule (I don't remember wich one), after analysis.

There is no problem to play pregen as is. But it could be usefull to fix/advert in a new release (of course after god and godess, sorcery, blablabla.. even prince of sartar comic 😛 ) just when "new player/gm" use pregen stat to understand the rules

Danke @Joerg

My goal is to find consistency between lore and rule

pelorian languages seem ok

If (I m not challenging you, see my "If" as algorithmic if) cat and dog scratchings are alphabetical or syllabic,  there is then an issue :

the actual rules decide that reading skill is enough to determine the capacity to understand books written in "cousin but foreign" language. So following rules I can read a german(tarshite)  book with my 80% latin alphabet reading when I m juste able to speak french (Esrolian).

My actual level in German : kartofeln, Wurst, Wasser und Fraulein ? wollen Sie mit mir schlafen ? (that just french touch of course for the miss)

Here we have a lack of consistency. it can be explained by

- magic / god / sign power but wich one ? wich myth ?

- house rule (I m near deciding to add Speaking skill is the limit of Reading skill, like Reading skill is the limit of sorcery spell skill)

- the rules are good because it's simple, stop discuss (but why sorcery limit then ? the population profile are the same : scholar / noble )

- something else

And your remark on the third is hard for consistency lore vs rule. It is not in the rules : " Adventurers learn all three scripts as part of the Read/Write Theyalan skill. "

Again I don't challenge the lore, and I just want to identify if

•  I have a lack of knowledge about gloranthan lore
•  I have a lack of knowledge about real world linguistic (I knew the split between chinese languages but not the use of one shared script, so my topic is already a success, thanks)
•  there is a lack of consistency between RQ:G rules and Glorantha Lore (that  I can manage, or "WE" if I am not alone to fix my attention here more than other rules topics)

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

In my head, I see spirits and elementals the same way. They're not uncommon by any means, the same way cougars and owls are not uncommon either.

I agree with you but I would say "

In my head, I see spirits and elementals the same way. They're uncommon by any means, the same way cougars and owls are uncommon too."

Meeting a tree in a wood is common, meeting a bear is uncommon.

12 hours ago, JustAnotherVingan said:

I'm a  little puzzled that the 3 Theyalan scripts are all treated as part of 1 skill whilst the 3 Pelorian scripts, although related, are treated as separate skills. Perhaps because 2 of the Theyalan scripts are in fairly common use whilst only 1 of the Pelorian scripts is.

p181 would appear to indicate Auld Wyrmish has its own script when I would have thought it would have used a Theyalan script, possibly adapted with some additional symbols.

Based on previous answer I would say :

pelorian languages are like european languages : same alphabet (or not) but too differents words so you can sound Firespeach by reading Darahappan (skill) but not understand  (so firespeach read skill is the ONE to determine if you understand or not the book)

thelayan languages are like chinese languages (for speaking): if you read the signs, you understand them but are not able to sound it in another language than yours.

And they are three forms but don't care if you learn read theyalan you learn all of them.

The issue in this case (probably never happen but...)

Let say you have 20% in firespeach speaking and 90% in firespeach reading. Are you able to write very well (using the same table than the speach skill) or to write like me (20% english speaking, 90% roman alphabet) ?

For Auld wirmish it is so magical than.. it is a different skill and that's all 😛

16 hours ago, g33k said:

I do not believe death provides a "spiritual teleport" effect.  IIRC it begins a 7(?) - day journey.  Some RW traditions use other durations, up to 40 days IIRC; I think Glorantha has a canonical number here, but don't recall what it is...  And may be misrecalling that such a number even exists in Glorantha...

And before the journey, doesn't the spirit stay near the body for a moment ? A moment usefull for the attacking one ?

3 hours ago, Crel said:

For a modern parallel, say I have Read/Write Roman Alphabet 90%. I can recognize writing in the roman script. I can even sound out languages I don't know, like German. But even if I can make German-ish noises (or French-ish, Italian-ish, etc.) that doesn't mean I understand that combination of sounds, or that I'm actually putting the sounds together in the right way.

Exactly what I mean, but I speak only languages based on Roman Alphabet so... the next answer sounds different and could be adapted to glorantha (or at least Theyalan, pelorian read write are based on language)

2 hours ago, Eff said:

My immediate thought would be that the scripts versus the languages are intended to function like how Arabic or the Chinese languages do in the RW- there's a standard script that can be read by everyone who has learned it, but the individual spoken languages are divergent and not mutually intelligible.

Does that mean that I cannot learn how to sound each symbol without understanding what I pronounce ?

My first question was :

"Is there a stormspeech read/write skill (like firespeach) or do we use "THE" theyalan script skill ?"

I didn't find the answer (so your help would be appreciated)

but I found more questions in the fog

I m convince that when a character succeeds a read/write roll, she succeeds to identify each letter/sign/... even words, sentences etc... But does she understand the sense ? Does she succeed a speak roll ? Does read/write skill be limited by the book's language ? (You can have 100% in rw theyalan, but the esrolian book will be read at 35% because you have 35% in Esrolian speach)

not so simple to answer (that is why I post)

• Auld Wyrmish --> "clever" humans devised a written form to bypass the physical limitation of speaking. Why learn something you cannot undersand (25% max speaking) ?
• IRL --> I can read a lot of european books, but I cannot understand them unless I learned to speak their language.

11 minutes ago, Chromatism said:

I'm not sure. On the table on page 199 it specifically states that for a Special Attack vs a Normal Parry - "parrying weapon takes damage over its HP, with the same amount of damage going to adjacent hit location".
The entry for a critical attack on the table states the same, with the added line "with no armour protection".

The wording on page 200 under "Parrying a Critical Hit" flies in the face of this and really obfuscates things.

As I said, I make a difference between weapon and shield. I m not sure of course but, as the rule is sometimes with "shield" and sometimes with "weapon" I conclude the system is different. And it seems normal (I m not an IRL specialist) : a shield should resist better than a sword

17 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I would say that you could do this.

The Table says that a critical attack vs a Normal Parry "Attacker rolls special damage. Defender’s parrying weapon HP reduced by the damage rolled. Any excess damage goes to adjacent hit location, with no armor protection". The Text on Page 200 says "Parrying a Critical Hit. Though the target’s armor does not subtract any damage from a critical hit, a successful parry from a weapon or shield blocks the amount of damage it normally would. However, a weapon that parries a critical hit takes twice the damage it would take normally. If the attacking weapon is a long-hafted weapon or an impaling weapon, the parrying weapon takes no damage. A shield that parries a critical hit receives twice as much damage as normal, and any unabsorbed damage strikes the parrying adventurer.".

So, they both agree that the Shield absorbs its HP in damage and the remainder goes through to hit, ignoring armour. Fine, that works OK, although reading it again,l they are not the same.

The table says the parrying weapon's HPs are reduced by the damage rolled. The Text says that the parrying weapon or Shield takes twice as much damage as it would have done. 

So, what does that mean? Looking at Chromatism's example, a Broadsword Criticals and does 18 Points of Damage and is parried by a Small Shield with 8 HPs.

According to the Table, the shield takes the full damage, so takes 18 HPs, it only has 8 HPs, so the shield is reduced to 0 HP and 10 HPs goes throiugh to a random Hit Location, doing 10 points of damage and ignoring armour. Ouch!

The Text says that the shield blocks 8 HPs of damage, leaving 10 HPs, this does 20 HPs of damage to the shield, destroying it, the shield reduces the damage by 8, leaving 12 points of damage to go through to strike a Hit Location, direct  and ignoring armour.

So, both result in the Shield being destroyed, but the first does 10 points of damage and the second does 12 points of damage.

This is annoying, as a Shield parrying a Critical Hit is not an uncommon occurrence or edge case and should clearly be covered in the rules.

What would I do? Pick one and stick with it. I'd use the results from the Table and ignore what it says in the Text. however, maybe one for Jason in the Rules Clarification Thread where Nobody else May Comment.

The moral of the tale might be not to mess about using a small shield, but to use a Medium or Large Shield, but perhaps that isn't the right moral.

 

what I understand from the text :

a Broadsword Criticals and does 18 Points of Damage and is parried by a Small Shield with 8 HPs.

the shield blocks 8 HPs of damage, leaving 10 HPs to hit a character location,

And the shield recieves for it self twice: in a "normal attack" 1 hp, ==> 2 hp

Which is different for a parrying weapon (sword...)

but It could be different

10 hours ago, g33k said:

Pretty sure that Jeff & Kalin have both said that they each hope & intend to get back to it... but that it's very very time-intensive, and very low pay, and they both need to prioritize the commercial projects that pay somewhere close to market rates...

of course it is clearly understandable (and understood)

when I say I miss Prince of Sartar comic, I m not criticizing*, just saiying it is a good work and I hope it will continue (BUT after full description of god/goddess/heroquesting/sorcery /... in RQG)

* = giving bad words - not sure of the word to use