Space in the Book of the Estate

[Atgxtg]

Do larger improvements count as one improvement for supposes of how many things can be built on and estate.

 

For instance if an Estate Holder has an Estate worth  £100 and he spends £400 to build a horse herd, does that count as one one improvement? I would think not, as the larger herd would require more space, but I can't find anything stating otherwise in the Book of the Estate.

[Morien]

13 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

£400 to build a horse herd

This is 10 horse herds, each costing £40, and hence take 10 spaces. Given that the £100 estate has ten spaces and can build ten improvements in a year, the estate can get all of them built in a year but it takes all available space.

All of it scales with the size of the landholding. The basic 'building blocks' of investments are scaled for £10 manor sizes and take 1 space (if they are space-limited), and to get a maxed out £X estate horse herd, you just build (X/10) horse herds which takes all the available space (X/10 spaces).

You could build 5 vineyards and 5 horse herds in that £100 estate instead, and also do all of that in a year. Or 10 armories to max them out.

£10 manor can build 1 armory per year, and maxes out at 1.

£100 estate can build 10 armories per year, and maxes out at 10.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Morien

[Morien]

16 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Do larger improvements count as one improvement for supposes of how many things can be built on and estate.

So the short answer is "No". A slightly longer answer is "Each £40 horse herd counts as one investment taking 1 space, so a £400 horse herd counts as 10 investments taking 10 spaces."

[Atgxtg]

Thanks. I thought it worked as ten improvements, but the text doesn't specifically state it as so. 

[Morien]

55 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Thanks. I thought it worked as ten improvements, but the text doesn't specifically state it as so. 

Text also doesn't have a £400 horse herd. It has a £40 one. If you want a £400 horse herd, you need to buy 10 horse herd investments.

Also, there is this text on p. 90: "Only one new Investment of each type may be built per £10 of Assized Rent." The intent very much was that it is the one limiting you to 1 Coneygarth per £10, thus 2 Coneygarths for £20, etc. And that makes no sense if you can just build 1 HUGE Coneygarth ten times bigger in yout £10 manor.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Morien

[Atgxtg]

12 hours ago, Morien said:

Text also doesn't have a £400 horse herd.  If you want a £400 horse herd, you need to buy 10 horse herd investments.

Au contraire. On page 92:

 

12 hours ago, Morien said:

Also, there is this text on p. 90: "Only one new Investment of each type may be built per £10 of Assized Rent." The intent very much was that it is the one limiting you to 1 Coneygarth per £10, thus 2 Coneygarths for £20, etc. And that makes no sense if you can just build 1 HUGE Coneygarth ten times bigger in yout £10 manor.

No, but the one of each type is what causes confusion, as Horse Herds and Orchards are two different types. 

Logic would support the assumption that each manor can only build one investment that requires space and that an estate with ten manors could have ten investments, and that the 400 Horse Herd take up ten spaces, but it's not specially stated that larger improvements take up more that one space, although it is implied. 

 

Still, thanks for the clarification.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Atgxtg

[Morien]

8 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Au contraire. On page 92:

Not in the investments. Investments are in specific blocks scaled for £10 manor, each taking 1 space.

The whole point is that if you want to build a larger investment, you just build more of these basic blocks.

11 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Logic would support the assumption that each manor can only build one investment that requires space and that an estate with ten manors could have ten investments

This would be wrong. You can build as many investments that require space that you have space for. For example you could have those 5 vineyards and 5 horse herds if you have 10 spaces. They don't all need to be same. And that 'of each type' is there for a reason. You can have the above 5 vineyards and 5 horse herds (since those are limited to 10 space slots) AND 10 Coneygarths (limited by the 'of each type' limitation).

13 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

it's not specially stated that larger improvements take up more that one space, although it is implied.

Each space-limited investment takes 1 space. If you want to have a bigger vineyard or whatever, you have to build more than 1 basic vineyard. You only run into this problem when you make up larger investments on your own rather than using the investments as given.

[Morien]

4 minutes ago, Morien said:

Not in the investments. Investments are in specific blocks scaled for £10 manor, each taking 1 space.

Dammit, sorry, you are right. It is in the investments, not in the constabulary section. In my own notes, it is simply a £40 horse herd, but in the published Estate, we do give the table that you posted, with no explanation.

Yeah, we should have added another column noting that the space requirement scales up as well. Mea culpa.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Morien

[The Wanderer]

Is it possible to build things that your basic manor already have, like the armory and the herds? 🤔 I thought they were listed for replacement just in case the original was destroyed.

[Morien]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Is it possible to build things that your basic manor already have, like the armory and the herds? 🤔 I thought they were listed for replacement just in case the original was destroyed.

Based on p. 76: "These may not be purchased again." So no, by RAW you are not allowed to build them, save to replace the original. However, in our campaign, I do allow them, i.e. you can double your horse herd / weapon & armor production for export.

 

[The Wanderer]

Ok, thanks!

[Atgxtg]

On 5/1/2020 at 2:16 AM, Morien said:

Dammit, sorry, you are right. It is in the investments, not in the constabulary section. In my own notes, it is simply a £40 horse herd, but in the published Estate, we do give the table that you posted, with no explanation.

I thought for a minute I was behind an edition again. 

Yes. Now it is implied that you get 1 SPACE per manor and that a 10 manor estate would get 10 SPACES that could be used on ten different investments that required SPACE, and that multiple one of the same type could be stacked for greater profit, but when I actually went looking for proof of this for my players, I found the text somewhat ambiguous.

Thanks for the clarification. 

On 5/1/2020 at 2:16 AM, Morien said:

Yeah, we should have added another column noting that the space requirement scales up as well. Mea culpa.

Don't kick yourself too hard. It usually the obvious core concepts that tend to get overlooked in these things. I know I've certain been guilty of it. What I think happens is that a idea become so obvious to the designer that it gets taken for granted and not spelled out specifically in the text. 

If it makes you feel any better, the player that prompted me to ask the question in the first place, doesn't have £400 to spend, and wouldn't haven't built the large horse herd anyway! I was puzzled too. I mean, I knew that he'd sacked away some libra .over  60 years of play, but I never dreamed that he had £400 libra. He didn't. Nor did I expect him to spend £400 to improve a estate that was only gifted to him -although the play does have high hopes of  getting Aurelius to convert it to a grant, somehow.

 

[Morien]

45 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

high hopes of  getting Aurelius to convert it to a grant, somehow.

If he were to have £400 in his backpocket, he would do better to offer it to Aurelius in return for getting the estate changed into a grant, than buying a £400 horse herd.

[Atgxtg]

22 hours ago, Morien said:

If he were to have £400 in his backpocket, he would do better to offer it to Aurelius in return for getting the estate changed into a grant, than buying a £400 horse herd.

LOL!  Although first he'd have to explain to the GM how he managed to accumulate £400!

Related player comedy moment occurred last session when said PK took a major wound and the Saxon who dropped him tried to run off with the PK's magic sword. After the session the player asked how the Saxon knew about the magic sword. I pointed out that PKs with over 26,000 glory don't have many secrets-especially for things that they haven't been hiding, such as the sword of Alexander. 

Player response: "Oh...yeah, that."

[Morien]

19 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Player response: "Oh...yeah, that."

Yep, part of the legend, like we know the name of Arthur's sword, etc.

[Atgxtg]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:51 AM, Morien said:

Yep, part of the legend, like we know the name of Arthur's sword, etc.

It cracks me up how my players sometimes think that they are keeping a low profile while riding around racking up glory points by slaying dragons, giants, etc. I don't think they quite understand the mean of the word Glory. 

[Morien]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

It cracks me up how my players sometimes think that they are keeping a low profile while riding around racking up glory points by slaying dragons, giants, etc. I don't think they quite understand the mean of the word Glory. 

Yeah, I don't think that some players have quite internalized the fact that they are the 1%, the celebrities, the sports stars of their day.

One of my players is starting to notice that perhaps it is not the best idea to get a host of personal enemies, as sooner or later, they realize that they can start cooperating, too...

Edited May 8, 2020 by Morien

[Atgxtg]

10 hours ago, Morien said:

Yeah, I don't think that some players have quite internalized the fact that they are the 1%, the celebrities, the sports stars of their day.

No they haven't.

Quote

One of my players is starting to notice that perhaps it is not the best idea to get a host of personal enemies, as sooner or later, they realize that they can start cooperating, too...

LOL! My group are in a similar situation. The original PKs did a lot of great deeds and won lots of glory, positions and rewards, then the next generation came it, stirred up trouble and ended up going into exile, and came back with Aurelius. The PKs formed a Knightly Order, and the new Count believes, quite correctly, that the PKS are more loyal to their order than to him. 

So it 475, the PKs have been back in Salisbury for a half dozen years, most of their allies have been dead for over a decade (Long Knives) and the players are somewhat surprised and puzzled that they aren't popular, like their original characters were. .

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Atgxtg