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Atgxtg last won the day on July 2

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  1. Atgxtg

    Incendiary Rounds?

    It's not all that hard to make an incendiary with household items. Even a can of hairspray will "work" to some extent, and making some sort of thickened fuel is easy. The big problem is finding something that can drop a Mythos nasty before it gets to attack, or being able to scare it off with fire. The latter is more up to the GM than the game.It's a lot like scaring off a bear. In the real world, making a lot of noise, banging pans together and such, can actually scare a bear off. But that only works in game if the GM is aware of it, and decides to run it that way. So you kinda need to know if waving a torch is going to be effective in driving something away, or just aggravate it.
  2. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    Yup, becuase it safe ground where they are certain to succeed. The fact that the game is rigged doesn't even dawn on them. Notice how D&Ders tend to use the phase "balanced" to represent encounters that aren't? The thing is, it's not really what D&D is trying to do, it's just a case of players being conditioned by experiences and learning how things really work. For instance, anyone who has ever been in a campaign where the GM will never kill a PC or wipe out a party "learn" to become reckless because they will always get away with it. That's not what such GMs were aiming to do, but it's what happens. It's also why I wish. I've found that even when acquainted with the idea of other approaches they reject them out of hand and revert to their "tried and true" methods. I end up feeling like Yoda, telling them "You must unlearn what you have learned." And even other RPGs. One of the problems I had with MRQ1 was that it looked and felt like RQ as written by a die-hard D&D player. A lot of the game mechanics, such as magical damage against shapeshifters, Orlanth having the Chaos Rune, or swapping out weapon damage tables to make the game more deadly, fit with the way D&D works but clash with the way RQ and it's related games have done things. It's a complete paradign shift.
  3. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    I think the problem as it stands works out as follows: Players assume that since they have gamed for a certain amount of time, they must be good. They don't realize that, say, driving to and from work everyday for 20 years doesn't make you Mario Andretti. Player also assume that because they have gained a lot of XP and leveled up characters they must be doing things right. They don't realize that XP and advancement are built in, and more a factor of playing time than success. Players assume that all encounters have to be "balanced" (that is heavily rigged in their favor). They don't realize that just because they decide to provoke a dragon, the GM is under no obligation to nerf that dragon. Players would much rather blame failure on some external factor (the GM or game system) rather than even consider the possibility that they might be at fault in some way.\ Players don't like to fail, and so would rather go back to doing whatever they were successful at.
  4. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    It's not just "we" who have to recognize this but "they" (the players) must as well. Now if they don't want to play a different style of game that perfectly okay, but that doesn't mean that I should be forced to run something that I have no desire to. What happens is that the players express a desire to try a different game, then revert to their standard method of play, and get upset when it doesn't work. I've explained things to players until I'm blue in the face, both before and after things go sour, with little effect. The thing is they don't believe that there is a different approach, and just assume that what they have been doing for years in D&D is the tried and true correct approach, and that something else must be wrong when that approach doesn't work. What seems to happen is that they have learned things from previous gaming and simply reject information to contradicts their previous experience. For example, most D&Ders don't surrender, because in D&D that usually leads to their characters being killed or enslaved and leads to everybody having to roll up new characters. Now, when running games such as RuneQuest and Pendragon, things don't work out that way, with many opponents willing to ransom off prisoners, but the players don't buy into it and just fight on until they are dead or incapacitated. In the James Bond RPG it took me several years to finally get ONE player in a group to realize that surrendering is often one of the best ways to get inside the major villain's stronghold, find out his plan, and be in a position to stop it. He only figured it out because he got stuck in a situation where he had to surrender, and he only did that because he had just lost a few characters shooting it out. Now the player had been told this, scene it happen in multiple films, had a handout that pointed it out to him, and yet refused to believe that it was true until he finally decided to try it out. Oh, and it seems to be exclusive to D&D players. Most other gamers seem to get it that game X isn't going to play the same as whatever they were playing before. I think it's because people who play other RPGs have probably played multiple RPGs early on, and find that out right way, when they try their second RPG. D&D players, however, are much more likely to have played only one RPG (D&D) and that for a long time, so they learn things that might apply to D&D but don't hold true elsewhere. Tactics such as rushing missile troops over an open plain work as a valid tactic in AD&D (and even D&D to a lesser extent), but can wipe a group out in a game like RQ or CoC.
  5. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    Not for me. For me it's kinda frustrating. Most of the gamers around here are D&Ders and it's hard to get much else going, and that mindset is one of the major reasons why. There's one guy in the area who hates my guts and won't game with me because of it. He'd get killed every week for doing suicidally stupid stuff (charging six opponents with a single starting character-that doesn't even work in D&D), but I'm to blame, supposedly because I only give them one way to solve a problem. In fact I allow for multiple solutions, it's just that his preferred method of frontal attack is the one that most baddies plan for, and the one that tends to rack up the most PC casualties.
  6. Atgxtg

    So does anybody remember Hawkmoon? ElfQuest?

    That's partially because one of the things that Chaosium did back then was adapt their game system to whatever setting they were trying to emulate. That helped to capture the feel for the settings.. They could have easily just adapted Elric and the Young Kingdoms to RuneQuest, give the God of Law and Chaos RQ style cults, Rune (Divine) spells and such. But they didn't. Instead they tossed out all of that and came up with sorcery rules which better reflected the world of the Young Kingdoms than RQ's magic system did. it made their stuff more immersive and less about the game system. By contrast look at the Licensed stuff TSR did for AD&D. Generally, they would shoehorn the setting to AD&D. So much so that it didn't even feel like the source material anymore- it was just AD&D. I think that some of Chasoium's greatest accomplishments were not what products they made, but the approaches they took to making them.
  7. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    With you there. It's just funny how players might take the news. I've had plenty of players who thought they knew what I meant when I warned them and gave them details about a different RPG who ended up shocked and surprised in play. It's partly because D&D uses a deceptively heroic approach. Most adventures treat the PCs as heroic underdogs who somehow succeed despite the odds being stacked against them, when in reality D&D is heavily rigged in the PCs favor. So a lot of players blow off the warnings as typical hype, often with disasterous consequences. For example, in one campaign a PC who was traveling on a mission, passed through a village where the locals were up in arms over a rampaging tiger that was killing people. The player got in into his head to track down and confront the "tiger", but did so under some mistaken assumptions, including the idea that it wasn't really a tiger. When he finally caught up with it, he turned to me and said, "I can't believe you threw a tiger at a starting character!" My reply was, "I can't believe you threw a starting character at a tiger!" His whole way of thinking was that it couldn't be a tiger because his character wasn't experienced enough to deal with one, therefore it was "unfair" for a tiger to be in the adventure. But the tiger wasn't part of the adventure at all, just a hazard, in the wrong direction, that he was warned about. The PC had no reason to spend days tracking the tiger down. But that's the D&D mindset and preconceived expectations. It's a tough habit to break players of.
  8. Atgxtg

    Human worshipping Aldrya

    Yeah. What I think we need more Glorathan names for "Elves" and "Dwarves". As soon as you use those words, most people think of standard FRPG species. It probably starts them off on the wrong foot.
  9. Atgxtg

    Cult List

    Good point. We only got "longform" cult writeups in the RQ2 days. Depending on where someone draws the line, they could easily exclude most of all of the RQ3 cult writeups, ditto the HQ ones.
  10. Atgxtg

    So does anybody remember Hawkmoon? ElfQuest?

    I guess that's good. I got something for Pendragon (a draft of the Book of Castles) that he had started that I'm not sure it anyone over at Nocturnal has. It might have wound up in the Book of the Warlord or one of the latter supplements. I should probably contact somebody and check just to make sure I don't have the only copy of it.
  11. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    I'd say hesitate, but do it anyway. It some ways it's like discipling a child. The goal is to try and get them to understand why they are being "punished". One of the hurdles I have with D&D players in other RPGs is that D&D teaches them certain things that don't hold true in other RPGs. So when things don't work out as they expected, they get confused, angry and tend to blame the game system or GM rather than their methods. Years of D&D has taught them that those methods are sound, so the problems lie "elsewhere". Experience points and leveling up tends to reinforce this belief too. The idea is that since they got up to X level they must be doing something right. Once, when running RQ3, I completely shocked and horrified a group of longtime D&Ders, when one of the PCs had an arm severed in combat. The way the players reacted, you would have thought that I had actually cut the player's arm off., personally. To their way of looking at things I had crossed the line and broken some unwritten rule of gaming. I really took years to change that outlook, and the problem was compounded by the fact that most people, rather than change their preconceptions, will run back to D&D where they know how things work and are protected.
  12. Atgxtg

    So does anybody remember Hawkmoon? ElfQuest?

    I think you're right. I suspect it probably worked out along the lines of Steve, Greg and/or Chaosium keeping a list of errors, errata, or potential changes to the rules as they went along, and then incorporating them into the next batch they printed. And, as you pointed out, the possibility that somebody might have grabbed the wrong stuff at times. There might have even been things that changes that were made and then discarded later on when they didn't work out as planned. Just going from some of what happened with Pendragon, with Greg only noticing that the threshold for the Chivalrous bonus was off (calculated on five traits, like the religious bonus, instead of six), or the 22 point plate that he was thinking about, I suspect there were a lot of things that happened with various rules. back in the days before RPG forums and webgroups. that most of us weren't aware of. There is some rule stuff I've read in various issues of Wrym's Footnotes that was "official" but never showed up again anywhere else. Plus a lot of that stuff was done up in the days of typewritten manuscripts and files being store in a file cabinet, not on a hardrive. So there was probably stuff that got lost or forgotten along the way. I just found a bunch of old Pendragon stuff I did up 20-25 years ago, that I'd forgotten about, that is formatted for an Atari ST. I can just imagine how much stuff someone like Greg or Steve might have had tucked away somewhere.
  13. Atgxtg

    Cash and Assets for Gaslight?

    There is a Cash and Assets table in Cthulhu Through the Ages, along with some other useful stuff for a 7th edition campaign set in that era. The big differences are that you tend to get a little more cash, and fewer assets
  14. Atgxtg

    Advice to a GM new to RQ and Glorantha

    Yeah, that's very good advice. I usually try to start a campaign with a small area, like a village, maybe give then a handout of "Common Knowledge" with a bit of background on the area, local NPCs, and maybe a map. Such knolwedge is culture and location centric, meaning that is it usually very accurate on local matters and nearly pure speculation of anything far away. Then Ilet the player's knowledge of things expand naturally as they travel about, meet more people, or take an interest in some topic or other. That not only reduces what the players need to know to play, and the demands on the GM to know stuff, but also lets the GM adapt things to the group and their interests. It also gives the PCs stronger ties to the setting, and story hooks that can be used to get them involved in things. Players act a lot differently if the missing farmer they are asked to find is someone they know and grew up with, as opposed to a total stranger.
  15. Atgxtg

    So does anybody remember Hawkmoon? ElfQuest?

    Thanks. The stuff you did on the various incarnations of Strombringer had me laughing. Years ago, when Chaosium updated the rules (the starting skills were a lot lower than in my original edition) I ran into a situation similar to the one I've described above in Pendragon. Same player, too. Only in this case his character was notably underskilled compared to the rest of the group because he was using the newer rules. I ordered the new version from my FLGS only to get the older version. Shop owner told me that his distributor claimed there was no such newer edition, but owner also told me his distributor was stopping by latter in the week, so if I wanted to explain it to the distributor I could. I brought 4 or 5 different versions of the game, with notes to help illustrate the differences The store owner (who I gamed with) backed me up. When the facts were pointed out to the guy, the distributor got angry and said "You got what you got."In the end the store owner dropped that distributor, not just because of that incident, but because it was indicative of how the guy handing his RPG stuff. He either didn't know the products or did but used ignorance as a means to push backstock. He went out of business about a year later.