Old-timer grumbles/rants about modern RPGs

[Susimetsa]

I've played RPGs since late 80's or so (getting harder to remember each year) and enjoyed Runequest, MERP, Rolemaster, Twilight 2000, Star Wars and several other games. My impression of a good RPG game is therefore somewhat settled in the way these games introduced it to me. Perhaps that is the reason why some of the more modern RPGs rub me the wrong way. I've listened to several podcasts / actual plays of games such as Daggers in the Dark, the new edition D&D and Modiphius' Dune etc. (not meaning to single these games out, just giving examples) and they seem to treat RPGs more like tabletop games or card games (Magic the Gathering) than traditional roleplaying.

D&D seems to introduce level-based abilities or feats in a way that seems similar to someone kitting out their Magic the Gathering deck and then the gameplay reminds me of a tactical combat game rather than shared storytelling. Daggers in the Dark and Dune both seem to have very strict phases with strict actions that you can and cannot do (move boldly or move silently etc.) and these seem like something you get in German-style boardgames.

It has been a joy to listen to podcasts of older game systems, such as CoC, where the mechanics are in the background and the GM decides when and if dice rolls are needed. Everyone can do what they think their characters would do instead of simply choosing from available options, or collecting feats of special moves that they can then deal out.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. I guess what I mean to say is that I love the more old-fashioned games where storytelling is in the foreground and mechanics are simply a support structure.

[g33k]

I've never played any *itD games; their "Playbooks" approach always struck me as a kind of "regressive" move toward limited player-options.

But... I know they're a popular suite of games (including for "older" players), so maybe I'm mistaken.

I'm looking for opportunities (such as at a big gaming-convention) to get into a one-shot (or even two, or three), to give it a solid test-drive (without investing my all-too-limited gaming budget (& too-limited gaming-time on a solo learning-curve)).

As for D&D -- 5E has less of what you describe than 3E had (and much less than 4E); the more-numerous 3E Feats system, with complex "Feat Trees" and various synergies & dependencies, led to a complex "optimal build" mini-game... which, frankly, a lot of people loved to play.

I cannot speak to Dune, or other Modiphius 2d20 games -- never tried any of them.

But let's admit we all have fond memories of our first few gaming-systems, but they still have their warts &c.  BRP-family games are prone to skill-list issues... sometimes too-many skills, some skills can be over-broad or too-narrow, "Professions" can be ill-represented, etc etc etc.  EVERYTHING that inherited Grandpa-D&D's "CHA" has problems (we know this is so for BRP, since we cannot settle down to CHA vs APP, and "social conflict" is a perennial weak-spot).

[Susimetsa]

16 hours ago, g33k said:

But let's admit we all have fond memories of our first few gaming-systems, but they still have their warts &c.  BRP-family games are prone to skill-list issues... sometimes too-many skills, some skills can be over-broad or too-narrow, "Professions" can be ill-represented, etc etc etc.  EVERYTHING that inherited Grandpa-D&D's "CHA" has problems (we know this is so for BRP, since we cannot settle down to CHA vs APP, and "social conflict" is a perennial weak-spot).

True, the older game systems do have their limitations and it seems to me that my grumbling simply reflects my preferences. But the playbooks etc. really make it difficult to me to see the roleplay in modern games. They do seem to focus more on the tactics and even GM vs players approach (Dune allows the players to "give threat" to the GM for certain benefits and the GM can then use that threat to make some future situations harder for the players). Much of the gameplay seems to regress to negotiations of difficulty levels and how many dice players can roll etc. Perhaps it is an attempt to give the players "agency", but I much prefer to see that agency in roleplay than negotiating about mechanics.

Argh! I regressed to ranting again! Sorry! 😄

[simonh]

I think the variety of options, and level of innovation has never been higher, you just need to know where to look for it. From narrative driven PBTAs and Forged in the Dark games, to the OSR movement and 5e, to GUMSHOE, Hillfolk and cloned editions of a host of classic games. There's just a ton of innovative stuff out there these days.