Encumbrance

[Barak Shathur]

Does anyone understand how encumbrance is supposed to work? The wording on page 118 is confusing, and if I once thought I understood it I no longer do. What is the difference between 'easily carry' and 'maneuvering normally for any length of time´? What is the average of STR+CON? Is it supposed to mean 'average of STR and CON'? And how does this relate to Fatigue Points?

One way it could make sense to me is if your 'maximum ENC' equals STR, and the 'average of STR+CON' refers to Fatigue Points, which is simply 'STR+CON'. But this is not what the words written are saying.

Also, I seem to remember it being clarified in a discussion, though not included anywhere in the book, that armour ENC doesn't apply if worn. This makes sense with regards to the ENC penalties listed, since otherwise wearing armour would make any warrior unable to move or fight. On the other hand, this does not fit well with Fatigue Points, which come from RQ3 where armour ENC is supposed to be counted. In terms of Fatigue Points, removing armour ENC from the equation makes them kind of meaningless, since most people will have 20-30 FP and carry maybe 5-10 ENC worth of weapons and equipment, and with combats rarely lasting more than 10 rounds, Fatigue Points will almost never be exceeded.

So for the two systems to work properly, either armour ENC should count towards Fatigue Points but not towards max ENC, or Fatigue Points should be less, maybe calculated from the average of STR and CON for example.

How do you guys see it?

 

[Mugen]

My guess is that those systems are not supposed to work together, like many systems in the book.

Encumbrance is for people who want to limit carried equipment but don't want to track Fatigue.

[Atgxtg]

 

I see it as:

1) A character can carry an amount of ENC up to thier STR.

2) They can maneuver normally if they carry an amount equal to the average of (STR+CON), rounded up. I don't know what happens if they can't maneuver normally. I'd suspect DEX rolls, Dodge and other Agility skills would become hard, but I did see anything about it.

3) If they exceed that amount, ENC penalties kick in (per page 118)

I think that was designed to be used with the ) Simpler Fatigue Points, method (Page 24). Since that doesn't have any sort of limits or penalties for the amount carried.

The problem I see with this is that seems to be closer to RQ2 rules, but the ENC values for armor is per RQ3. So a Plate Curiass covering the chest is 5 ENC instead of 3 (RQ2), and no human could move normally in a full suit of armor.And I see that as a very good reason not to use the ENC rules on page 118, or port over the ENC values from RQ2 to use with them . But if I did port over the ENC values from RQ2, I'd just port over the ENC rules from RQ2 as well, since those work. 

 

The Fatigue Point System (Page 24), on the other hand, is sort of self limiting, since if Fatigue Points drop below zero,the character applies the current value as a penalty to all characteristic, skill, and resistance rolls. If the character's Fatigue Points should to  a negative score equal to thier maximum Fatigue (STR+CON) they become exhausted. So it doesn't really need the additional restrictions and penalties from page 118.

So I don't see a reason to use the fatigue system with what's on page 118. 

 

 

 

[Barak Shathur]

All well and good, and what you say makes sense. Unfortunately, the text has it

"Additionally, your character loses 1 fatigue point per turn per additional ENC above their maximum while exerting themselves
(marching, combat, strenuous activity, etc. in addition to any other fatigue point losses (see Fatigue, page 24)."

And

On 10/15/2024 at 12:09 AM, Atgxtg said:

1) A character can carry an amount of ENC up to thier STR.

2) They can maneuver normally if they carry an amount equal to the average of (STR+CON), rounded up. I don't know what happens if they can't maneuver normally. I'd suspect DEX rolls, Dodge and other Agility skills would become hard, but I did see anything about it.

What is the difference between "carry" and "maneuver normally"?

Which one of STR or (STR+CON/2) is the actual "maximum ENC"?

[Atgxtg]

36 minutes ago, Barak Shathur said:

All well and good, and what you say makes sense. Unfortunately, the text has it

 

"Additionally, your character loses 1 fatigue point per turn per additional ENC above their maximum while exerting themselves
(marching, combat, strenuous activity, etc. in addition to any other fatigue point losses (see Fatigue, page 24)."

Yes, but IMO the text doesn't make much sense. There are lots of little bits here and there that were lifted from previous games or added that do not seem to wrok together or work well together (volley fire is another example, since it was originally liked to the now removed RQ strike rank system).

36 minutes ago, Barak Shathur said:

And

What is the difference between "carry" and "maneuver normally"?

Officially, I don't see anything on that but  since they have ENC penalties listed later on, I'd assume that where ENC penalties kick in. 

IMO I think they should have either gone with STR or (STR+CON)/2 for ENC , but not both, but see below.

36 minutes ago, Barak Shathur said:

Which one of STR or (STR+CON/2) is the actual "maximum ENC"?

By Page 118, STR. THat is clear. But CON apparently plays a factorin how long one could carry that. But the problem with using just STR is that it won't take long to reach that limit since ENC values in the UGE are higher than in RQ. 

 

For a simple  (but totally unofficial) solution, try:

1) Use STR+CON as the upper limit- that will offset the higher ENC values for armor and other gear.

2) Apply ENC penalties once someone passes half this.

Example -

Joe the Warrior has STR 16, CON 12, they would have a Max ENC of 28, and would suffer ENC penalties for any amount over ENC 14. 

 

[Barak Shathur]

Alright. So its not just me.

[Jason D]

I wish I'd been able to wrangle that section into better shape, and TBH the simple solution Atgxtg just posted is perfectly acceptable.

If you are using mounts, etc. and want that to apply to them, then I recommend a) ENC worn by riders counts as half, and b) mounts use STR+CON+SIZ with the system Atgxtg posted above. 

So use it with my blessing! 

 

 

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, Barak Shathur said:

Alright. So its not just me.

Nope. It's not just you. Stuff like that is why I like the BGB as a sorucebook for other BRP Games rather than as as a system to run.