Rules Question - Reaching for gun in a brawl

[Freddy]

Hello. I have a question regarding combat i hope i can get some clarification on.

I have 2 situations where Harvey wants to grab for his gun in a combat. Can you clarify for me, how it will be played out? Is it a manouvre so that he has to roll for it, does it take a turn in the round to just reach for the gun, and then he has to wait until next round to shoot or?

1. On the cultists turn, the cultist is swinging his fist at Harvey. As a fightning manouvre Harvey wants to grab for his gun and shoot at the cultist..... - Can he both reach for it and shoot it in the same manouvre? Yes/no and why and how?  

If example 1 is possible -  If both succeedes, does the cultists hit on harvey prevent harvey from getting his gun?

2. On harveys turn he wants to grab for his gun and shoot at the cultist at close range....... -- Can he both reach for it and shoot it in the same manouvre? Yes/no and why and how?

If example 2 is possible - The Cultist chooses to fight back (As the rulebook states that he should if not fleeing), does a win on the cultists side prevent Harvey from getting his gun, or does he just hit Harvey in the face, and then Harvey still has his gun to shoot?

 

 

Maybe i am just totally missing something here, but i just cant seem to find anything about it in the book. 

Thanks for any help!

Edited October 10, 2017 by Freddy

[SplitYourSanity]

I think you may have to deal with the attack first, right?
Cultist attacks, so Harvey can dodge, fight back, or maneuver.   Those are all with respect to the attack. 
if Harvey grabs for the gun, then he has not dodged, nor has he fought back, nor has he tried a maneuver with respect to the attack.  He has ignored the attack and focused on his gun instead.  So, I'd let the attack succeed and see if Harvey survives to get to his turn.

If it is Harvey's turn, and if you allow Harvey two actions on his turn (grab and shoot), you can always treat the shot as the second action (i.e., give a penalty die for the shot, and a bonus die for close range.  You can then limit the shots he can take during his turn). 

 

[ronin]

I'm starting a campaign soon and have some questions about combat too, though much simpler than the example above. Do you only get one action per round? So if you move, that's it for the round? If you fight back or dodge does that mean you can't attack the enemy yourself?

I guess I'm used to two actions a round- move and attack, dodge and attack, etc. am I missing something here?

[nclarke]

Monsters get as many H-t-H attacks as they have listed (2 claws and bite for example. PC (and other humans) get one melee/H-t-H attack per round. You can dodge or fight back once per attack you have and count as outnumbered after that. This makes something with 3 attacks have not only three attacks but three fight backs or dodges. Moving generally doesn't count towards attacks - if you are coming from a more crunchy combat (D&D) forget everything you thought you knew.

[Freddy]

I guess my question is then: is grabbing for your gun + shooting it, 2 actions or 1 action?

[nclarke]

Err you don't get to shoot in melee/H-t-H combat in 7e, it's clubbing with the gun not shooting. There are no rules in 7e for shooting in H-t-H combat. The reasoning is that if two of you are struggling and a gun is involved either party can get shot. If you insist on using a gun have both sides make a Luck roll and the loser get's shot is my suggestion.

[Leofwyn]

I would say that, as the cultist attacks, Harvey can either fight back, dodge, or maneuver. As drawing the gun and shooting is an attack, it is not an option at that time. 

On Harvey's initiative, he can draw the gun and fire. (Debatable if this is an other action or not, I'd say not if readily available from holster or pocket) Firing into melee is at disadvantage, but point blank is advantage - they should cancel out. (I could be convinced that as Harvey is in the melee, he is still at disadvantage)

Next round, Harvey will act first as firearms are at dex + 50.  The cultist is in trouble as he brought his fist to a gun fight! 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Leofwyn

[EricW]

I grew up in a rough area, lots of fights to defend myself when I was young. Sometimes people attacked me with weapons, though never a gun.

If an attacker is close and swinging punches, pulling a weapon is very risky, you need both hands full time to try to fend off the assailant. If you drop a hand to pull a knife or gun, the assailant will land at least one or two nasty punches on your head before you can deploy the weapon - likely rendering you incapable of defending yourself. If you can break free and the assailant doesn't follow up for a few moments, you can maybe pull a weapon - but if they realise what you are doing, they will likely close in and grapple to get control of the weapon.

This is one of those situations game mechanics probably doesn't handle well, but at the very least in the middle of a fight I would give the assailant a chance to seize the gun from the defender, or knock it out of the defender's hand, and maybe one or two attacks with severely reduced defence.

[ronin]

On 10/11/2017 at 2:45 AM, nclarke said:

Monsters get as many H-t-H attacks as they have listed (2 claws and bite for example. PC (and other humans) get one melee/H-t-H attack per round. You can dodge or fight back once per attack you have and count as outnumbered after that. This makes something with 3 attacks have not only three attacks but three fight backs or dodges. Moving generally doesn't count towards attacks - if you are coming from a more crunchy combat (D&D) forget everything you thought you knew.

I just read the section "Movement During Combat" section on page 127 of the KH. It defines fairly well how far a character can move and what combat actions they can take while moving during a round. Our group has used minis for the past 15-20 years during combat but it seems like they would take away from a CoC game honestly. Describing something and letting the player's minds fill in the rest seems like the way to go.

I just ran my first session last weekend of The Haunting and I thought it went really well. I am using the expanded version and the group really only just met Willard Brown and checked into the local hotel. They were mixed on what to do next so they decided to drive by the house on the way to the sanitarium. The librarian decides to speak with the neighbors while the spy enters the house "just to check the lay of the land". The librarian gets a little upset, the criminal and archeologist follows the spy into the house, the doctor stays outside. Turns out the spy just wanted to get the ball rolling (he isn't a believer) so once the criminal heads in he goes back outside. The criminal heads upstairs, checks the rooms, tries to pick the lock on the one bedroom but fails. 

At this point I start pounding on the floor with my foot, players are like "What's that!" I describe what they hear, criminal immediately backs away from the door, the librarian (who was on the porch by then) starts yelling "Everyone needs to get out, I knew we shouldn't have went in there!" That's where we ended the session for the night. The funny thing is, before they went into the house they were debating on staying there during the investigation. I believe they have changed their minds

This is my first attempt at keeping the game, really only played at conventions before now. My group has no experience with CoC other than Mansions of Madness from FFG. Sorry about the post about the session, I just really enjoyed it and wanted to share. I'm already looking forward to the next session!

[SplitYourSanity]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:45 AM, nclarke said:

Monsters get as many H-t-H attacks as they have listed (2 claws and bite for example. PC (and other humans) get one melee/H-t-H attack per round. You can dodge or fight back once per attack you have and count as outnumbered after that. This makes something with 3 attacks have not only three attacks but three fight backs or dodges. Moving generally doesn't count towards attacks - if you are coming from a more crunchy combat (D&D) forget everything you thought you knew.

forgetting dnd combat really is a great tip.  CoC keeps it simple, intuitive, and turn by turn, which keeps the story moving along.