Problems with understanding Trance (Animism)

[Gol]

Gooday Sirs!

I'm very happy having found this forum and just registered to get some advice on RuneQuest 6 for probably becoming a better game master in that campaign starting in a few days. I was a RuneQuest player back in 1990 (playing a nomad herder named Gol  ), but never was a game master, so the whole thing is rather new to me because as a player I only got a very superficial look at the rules - and they seem to be quite different between RQ3 and RQ6.

My 4 players and I are going to play in the year 500 A.D. starting in a celtic village at the southern coast of Devon. One of the players decided to play a shaman, so I dived into the animism section of the rule book - just to be a bit puzzled how this all may work out at the table. The player learned the Trance skill (69%) but not the Binding skill. My problem after reading animism is, that I got little clue what she can do with it - or what information I can present to her character for having a successful Trance roll. What may be the goal of detecting and converse with a spirit? Can somebody give me a start, how this could actually work out in a game where she wants to contribute to the plot with Trance? An example would be great! In what situations can Trance as a single skill really shine and generate benefits for the shaman herself or the whole group?

Please take into account that I'm not a native speaker. My above text may be full of mistakes and sound a bit odd. Please tell me if something is wrong or ask if something is unclear.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Gol

[Matt_E]

Being able to see spirits and possibly enter the Spirit Realm could be a big deal, if other characters cannot.  For example, if you're a ghost hunter, this goes a long way (even if you don't know Binding to strike bargains, etc.).  In this case your adventure should contain a moment at which, if this character succeeds with Trance and perceives something important about the spirits, it turns the tide of events.  There's plenty of opportunity for good roleplaying drama here.

Perhaps the party needs to locate and question a ghost, to learn something important to the plot.

Perhaps the party needs to avoid a dangerous spirit.

Perhaps tracking a spirit through its otherworldly trail of slime, essence or whatever--invisible to normal eyes--is key to success.

Your English is better than my [anything other than English]. 🙂

[Gol]

Thanks Matt_E, that's a very kind reply. I guess that helped a bit.

Perhaps I'll try to give the players the information via trance where they can find the shrine where the first adventure takes place. But I'm always concerned with such things because I don't know what to do if the trance doesn't succeed. It's always a bit cheesy to come with an alternative information source when the players are not able to find out with their own skills.

I had the idea that the player could get a second try on her trance skill if she consumes some fly mushrooms - but then gets a disadvantage on anything perceptive and sporty the whole next day.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Hi Gol,

With training (or natural ability) just in Trance, the character will be able to move into the Spirit World and interact with spirits there - conversing, observing, and so on, but won't be able to strike bargains or compel them to help. Matt_E has offered some excellent suggestions, and I would also add that if the character needed to enter into Spirit Combat, then she could always use Willpower at Formidable instead. But there's actually quite a lot she can do with Trance alone; and perhaps you also have a plot opportunity here with the character needing to seek out a druid to help her learn the Binding skill.

[Matt_E]

4 hours ago, Gol said:

Thanks Matt_E, that's a very kind reply. I guess that helped a bit.

Perhaps I'll try to give the players the information via trance where they can find the shrine where the first adventure takes place. But I'm always concerned with such things because I don't know what to do if the trance doesn't succeed. It's always a bit cheesy to come with an alternative information source when the players are not able to find out with their own skills.

I had the idea that the player could get a second try on her trance skill if she consumes some fly mushrooms - but then gets a disadvantage on anything perceptive and sporty the whole next day.

You're welcome. 🙂

"It's always a bit cheesy to come with an alternative information source when the players are not able to find out with their own skills." -- I know what you mean, but this is actually an important point of designing an investigation. The key is to make it not obviously cheesy. 😉  If you want to keep the players on track to a predictable conclusion, then there are probably some pieces of information that simply must not be missed; the question then becomes, what aspects of the inquiry become easier or harder based on actual skill checks?  This is where what the characters can do matters, and where player agency comes in.  I have written a bit about this in Interludes: Homecoming, and I am sure these are not original insights; for example, I believe they are the main thrust of the much-lauded GUMSHOE system (though I have not studied those rules).

"the player could get a second try on her trance skill if she consumes some fly mushrooms - but then gets a disadvantage on anything perceptive and sporty the whole next day." -- This is nice gamecraft.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Matt_E

[Gol]

Hi Lawrence,

thanks for pointing out more options. The player herself is not the shaman of the village, only her assistant. The shaman is an old woman from whom she learned. The next plan was, that the shaman teaches her binding. But I absolutely take your plot hook to search for a druid instead. That'll be a great thing for another adventure!

So: with trance one can find spirits, talk to them, send messages over far distances (only to well known people or other animists?) or send other people dreams (anyone?). That's some cool stuff and the player was especially quite impressed by being able to send someone dreams.

I guess if the animist wants to travel to the spirit plane, she makes a trance roll. But what if the roll doesn't succeed? Can she try it over and over again (with the needed time effort), till the roll is positive or is there only one try within a day or so? And what about trying to find a spirit? Can she try that multiple times or is there a limit?

And I have a further question to your comment on Spirit Combat. With trance you can not start a spiritual attack, but is it possible to provoke a spirit to attack?

The other option Willpower at Formidable is a good hint as well!

[Matt_E]

Gol, you may also want to hunt down the pertinent discussions on the Design Mechanism forum.  We have had several about using the Animism rules.  The overarching message is that among the several magical traditions Animism is probably the most open to interpretation (or specialization of flavor, anyhow) for any given campaign setting, and the most difficult to understand initially--but also possibly the coolest.

You mentioned RQ6 above.  In the subsequent Mythras version of the rules, the Animism chapter featured the heaviest revisions, and is easier to digest now, in my opinion.  The rules weren't changed much, but some pieces from elsewhere in the book were better integrated in one place, and the overall presentation has improved.  If you're still using RQ6, it may be worth your while to get Mythras, just for this reworked chapter (never mind the other sundry refinements).

Edited July 21, 2018 by Matt_E

[lawrence.whitaker]

25 minutes ago, Gol said:

So: with trance one can find spirits, talk to them, send messages over far distances (only to well known people or other animists?) or send other people dreams (anyone?). That's some cool stuff and the player was especially quite impressed by being able to send someone dreams.

I guess if the animist wants to travel to the spirit plane, she makes a trance roll. But what if the roll doesn't succeed? Can she try it over and over again (with the needed time effort), till the roll is positive or is there only one try within a day or so? And what about trying to find a spirit? Can she try that multiple times or is there a limit?

And I have a further question to your comment on Spirit Combat. With trance you can not start a spiritual attack, but is it possible to provoke a spirit to attack?

If the Trance roll doesn't succeed, it's up to you as the GM as to when it can be tried again. Sometimes the GM will require a Luck Point to be used (I do this if the Trance roll is happening at a critical point in the story). Or, if the roll is within 5 points of a successful roll, I just allow it, if it's a non-critical situation, and assume it took slightly longer to do. Don't forget that you can also Augment the Trance roll with a Passion, or another skill, such as Willpower or Meditation, if it's appropriate to the circumstances. You can also adjust the grade of the Trance roll - making it Easy or even Very Easy, if the conditions are right (the character is well rested, in a sacred grove, taken certain herbs, etc). So there are all sorts of ways of boosting the original roll to reduce the likelihood of failure.

Is it possible to provoke a spirit to attack? Of course! Depending on their type, spirits can be fickle, mercurial creatures, quick to anger, quick to take offence, and quick to take revenge. These are not creatures with human motivations, and they act according to their natures. A Bear Spirit can be expected to be aggressive. A Disease Spirit will want to infect a suitable soul. An Ancestor Spirit may want to test the worthiness of the animist.

A question for you: you say you're playing in Britain in 500AD. Are you using 'Mythic Britain'? It has some additional rules for spirits, and an explanation of how druids interact with the spirit world. If you don't have this book, I recommend you get a copy. It's set in 495AD, covers Dumnonia (which includes the Devon coast), and has a whole bunch of scenarios that include spirit interaction.

Edited July 21, 2018 by lawrence.whitaker

[Gol]

Oh wow, Matt and Lawrence, thanks for the input! I'm really so happy to return to RuneQuest after that many years and have a go in this forum.

My first closer look into the RQ6-book two weeks ago wasn't very nice for me and I was upset because I had a very precise and simulationistic rules set in mind. I was quite surprised about the undefinedness of large parts of the rules (e.g. combat styles and animism). But I get over it more and more and understand the chance of having rules that support the mystic atmosphere of celtic culture of the dark ages. My original approach was to roll hard on tables, but I get the point now and try to use the rules more flexibly as they fit best to enhance the stories to unfold.

As I'm a German guy, I'm waiting eagerly for the German version of Mythic Britain, which is going to hit the shelves within a few weeks. So for the start of my campaign I'll have a go with just the rule book. I got the RQ3 as well and use it together with the new one to home brew the mixture we like.