svensson

I missed the announcement. I'll check the FLGS and see if they're in Bits and Mortar.

For some reason I had it in my head that there would be a code included in the shrink wrap. However that might have been another company.

Thanks for the answer.

A future history spanning to, say, 1650 would be good too!

Quick question.

Will there be a purchase code in the shipcase edition for PDFs for those of us who'd like to support our FLGS by purchasing there?

Thanks.

At my last look [day before yesterday], all three ships carrying the Slipcase Edition [RQG, GM Kit, and Bestiary] were in either in-port or in the final legs of their voyage. These ships were headed to Southampton UK, Sydney NSW, and Long Beach CA. Of these, the Long Beach vessel had the farthest to go.

Expect them to be available by the end of the month [March 2019].

I'll grant you that the Guide is definitely a tome. Digging that SOB out to reference can be a chore when you're trying not to tear the dustcover, etc.

As to a new edition of the same material, I'd rather prefer to get a glimpse of what Glorantha looks like after the fall of the Red Moon. I mean, what does Dragon Pass look like after Heortling culture is nearly exterminated and Orlanth only survives by the skin of his teeth?

But more art, especially more GOOD art, is always welcome. Maybe a Visions of Dragon Pass book with juried and authorized art and illustrations. You know, now that I think of it, a couple of books of art that depict the scenes from the travels of Biturian Varosh and Paulus Longvale could be good.

So I want to get a game going in my local area, but I'm tired of having to buy a rule book, get read up on the world /milieu /genre enough to present the material, convince people to play, and then run into a dead end when the game dies, or it gets sold to another company that *drastically* rewrites the rules. [for example, the various iterations of Middle Earth, Star Trek, Star Wars etc.].

To solve this, I dug out my old RQ2 Questworld box set, dusted off the Kanos continent, and am putting together a transplanted Earth society on that continent. 'Just add magic' so to speak. And it's NOT a society you'd expect, either.

My struggle with all this is convincing players 'raised' on leveling systems and experience points that there is an alternative that is more homogeneous and 'natural'... that they can do anything they want if they're willing to spend the time and effort, but that they'll only get better in skills they spend time and effort on.

With all that, I've found that the big advantage RQG has is the long back story that players can read up on if they wish to. There's lots of illustrative art, and lots of hand waves that help a player get into their role. With Mythras/RQ6, not so much.

Are you speaking of the big 2-volume set? If so, I don't know about that... that's kind of pricey just for new art and not new content. As I understand it, the GoG was supposed to be the be-all-and-end-all of what Glorantha is and is not.

If so, I thought there was a lot of new art in it. Especially art with a newer direction than previously [the artwork depicting the various peoples for example]. Maybe it was new to me or something. This isn't to say that there isn't some extraordinary art coming out lately, there absolutely is.

Were I to suggest something, I would like to see some more art depict the gear of the various societies. In the RQG main rules I really enjoyed the Heortling artwork showing Farmer, Thane, Noble, Rune Lord, and Priest and I'd like to see some depictions of Esrolians, Dara Happans/Pelorians, Praxians, etc.

OK, over on the Glorantha board we almost got into political stuff. We certainly don't want a political debate in this forum. But I got to looking at the 2016 CthulhuTrump campaign stuff and I thought....

Would an image of Teresa May and Donald Trump dancing around an altar summoning Hastur be funny?

Yes. Yes it would....

XIN LOS ANGELES tracks as being in Vancouver BC by tomorrow afternoon on VesselFinder. You Ozzies can try and figure that out in ANZ metric time, plus or minus DST...  

Since her last port of call was in the PRC, I'm presuming she's inbound for Longbeach CA.

It might be useful if we set aside the normal meanings for the words 'iron', 'bronze', 'copper' and so forth. Those words imply that that the Gloranthan metals called by those names possess properties and respond to treatment the same as Earth metals of the same name. And it is very clear from their discussion in Greg's writings and the metals' treatment in RQ that this is not the case.

We know these things for sure:

*Gloranthan bronze is not usually smelted from tin and copper. They are the literal Bones of the Gods that slain in the Gods War.

*Many human cults know the secret of working Gloranthan iron/ Ur-metal. A smaller number know the secret of working it into steel. Orlanth, Humakt, Yelm, Yelmalio and cults within the Lunar Empire [Blue Moon, etc.] certainly do. And the Mostali don't send gobblers after all of them, so the secret of Ur-metal must not be all that very important. A Lesser Secret rather than a Greater.

*Many Rune metals can be enchanted to the properties of bronze, but few to the properties of iron.

7 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I do wonder whether synchronizing magic could make Gloranthan military units a lot more mobile than their ancient world parallels, even beyond the degree of Roman legions or Swiss phalanxes. After all, Polaris is master of the dance, and turning on the spot is his special move.

The magical about-turn of a formation might even be an exhilarating experience with centripetal force like many folk dances where some of the dancers (usually the girls) get lifted off the ground by the circular motion of others.

Why do I have this vision in my head of a marching phalanx getting spun around like Russian Cossack dancer

Well, let me point out that working raw iron into sharp blades isn't all that much more sophisticated than working copper. The Xhosa and Bantu peoples of Southern Africa [the Zulus are a Bantu people] were able to make assegai blades using stone anvils and hammers. There's nothing that says the Mostali don't trade blade blanks for the locals to pound into specific shape.

However, I also realize that Gloranthan Ur-metal [Runic Iron] is not the same as chemical element Fe on Earth Prime. While I might bring up some Earth equivilents, the Metals of Acos are what Greg Stafford said they are, not our chemistry or shop teachers

Just now, M Helsdon said:

Sadly, there are times when digging too far into Glorantha is often results in destroying it, much as that adventurer and con man Schliemann severely damaged the site of Troy digging right through the level he wanted, and in the process made an enormous trench wrecking the archaeology of the site for all time.

So true.

And you can say that about any franchise or genre. Sometimes you just have to let the magic be magic and the warp drive work because the author says so.

32 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

I know. There are Legions in Glorantha, but they aren't Roman legions with their formations.

Well, the Marian legion [based on cohorts] is a much looser formation as compared to the phalanx or the Saxon/Viking shield wall. One look at the legionary scuta after Gaius Marius professionalized the legions will show you that they weren't made to overlap in battle formation until deep in the AD's [about the time they were strapping iron darts on the inside of their shields]. I suppose a Lunar legion-equivalent could use a sickle-sword of some form to stab upwards in a softball-pitch motion.... But again, I wouldn't recommend it.

Well, it's good to a firm basis for going forward.

I admit that I didn't much like knights in Gothic jousting harness and Ralios covered with codottierri wearing coats of plates and carrying Florentine rapiers all while the Lunar Empire was still wearing linothorax and its 'heavy' infantry was wearing lorica segmentata.

39 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

The falcata is almost identical to varieties of kopis - even the name of the falcata is a 'modern' 19th century invention. They share very similar characteristics, and it is unknown if they are the outcome of parallel 'evolution' in the western and eastern Mediterranean at around the same time, or were introduced from one to the other.

In Glorantha, the kopis was introduced to Peloria by the Pentan nomads, and is now one of the most popular sword types there.

The khopesh is certainly present as well, as a variety of the Lunar 'sickle' swords, some of which look like sickles and some don't.

 

Okay, looking up 'Greek kopis', I see the similarity. I'd seen other illustrations that looked very like a sword-axe [a' la the '300' movie]. Certainly they existed in history, but I have to admit that I never liked the visual of them. They have this ridiculous 'mall ninja' look that bothers me.

But then, I fought as a heavy in the SCA for many years and I freely admit to a straight blade bias. From my experience looking over the shield rim at bad guys, there isn't a whole lot to recommend a curved blade while fighting on foot. It's true that a kopis /falcata can be a shield killer with enough *oomph* behind it, but it doesn't really lend itself to any combat style other than the overhand hack. The same goes for the Lunar sickle swords of whatever variety... especially when you imagine them a legionary type formation. Cohortal or manipular formations depended on the front ranks being able to stab underneath into the abdomen of opponents who were hacking overhand and using their shield to counterbalance the motion of the strike.

But at the end of the day, this is fantasy with Gods and demons and magic that works. If Greg and Steve say that cohorts work with scimitars, so be it.

Since we're talking about swords [and I admit that I haven't read 16 pages of discussion] what about the Iberian /Carthaginian falcata? Or the classic Egyptian khopesh?

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

Shadow on the Borderlands did say such things but a) it is no longer canon and b) more importantly the level of Thanatari worship it suggests in such places is absurd.

 

Since when did any of the RQ3 material become non-canon?

And do we have a list of canon sources?

BTW, I thought the Shadows on the Borderlands was a great supplement. It had my group looking over our shoulders for Thanatari scorpion-ogres for months!

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

I do wonder whether an Illuminate can use passions (like the Storm Bull Rage) as easily as non-illuminates can. From Oddi's exchange with Paulis, he appears unable to tap into that rage any more. Whether that affects his ability to go berserk via divine magic is yet another question (and I'd think that it doesn't).

On the other hand, Argrath on his path to deeper insights appears to be able to harness passions beyond the normal human measure - perhaps as a consequence of draconic insights. And whatever Sheng and his disciples did appears to thrive on passions, too.

Arkat being a zealot in whichever new cult he joined may be tied to passions, too.

In re: Passions and Illumination [which really ought to be its own thread, but nvm]

Were it my table as GM, I would allow a very limited number of Passions for an Illuminate character. Like maybe one or two Passions absolutely essential to the character, its beginning concept, and its subsequent play. Arkat was an Illuminate and was able to maintain his drive to kill Gbaji... and the tales tell us that it was not in the cold, calculating manner of Oddi the Keen. When battle became personal, Arkat could get quite enraged [mechanically using his Hate Nysalor Passion].

Illumination by it's very nature is free of Passions [capital and lower-case 'p']. It is the liberation from dogma and prejudice, yes, but it is also releases the boundaries of morals and ethics that allow all societies to function.  Even here on Earth Prime we struggle with the definitions of 'evil' when we have a difficulty defining what is 'murder' and what is 'killing', for just one example. Look at what happens to Illuminates when they realize that there's no consequences to even the most depraved acts.

And speaking of Arkat and Argrath, that brings up another question....

Was Argrath Illuminated?

[ducks]

23 minutes ago, svensson said:

Given the quality of of the new product [RQG], I have no issue with that at all. I'm gonna buy the book in hopes that there's new or updated information within.

I will note, however, that Harn has a big following and has been very successful in its loose-leaf format. Further, from a strictly referee standpoint, it's much easier to organize information loose-leaf. But that could just be my old pen-and-paper thinking.

On that note, there has to be some kind of balance to be struck in the Glorantha wiki between the current 'buy this out-of-print product, page xx' and wiki entries that offer substantive information in the entries but still encourage product sales.

SIDE QUESTION

These stupid line-throughs keep appearing in my posts. Other than erasing the entire post and starting over, I can't seem to get the damned this to stop appearing at random intervals. Anyone have any ideas about this, or is it just me?

18 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Voriof is as much or as little an earth god as are Varnaval, the Praxian Founders or Waha. (And look where the Good Shepherd is listed in Nomad Gods... good or goof job making your point, Joerg.) Barntar has mostly earth related feats, except for his dragon fighting inheritance of the Aroka myth. Voriof has herd related feats, which is Earth at least once removed.

By ancestry, Orlanth is mostly an earth god, too. He has but one grandmother (Gata) and two grandfathers (Larnste and Aether, who himself is a child of Earth). That's five eighths Earth. Any children of his from Ernalda are going to be even more earth tribe, and bastards of his like Vinkgot are still around 50% Earth by ancestry.

You know, I'm pretty sure that gods and genetics don't mix very well

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

It is not going to be made into a binder. Nor is it going to be laid out to support that. It will be a lovely hardcover book. If you want to print out the PDF and punch holes in it, you are welcome to do so.

Given the quality of of the new product [RQG], I have no issue with that at all. I'm gonna buy the book in hopes that there's new or updated information within.

I will note, however, that Harn has a big following and has been very successful in its loose-leaf format. Further, from a strictly referee standpoint, it's much easier to organize information loose-leaf. But that could just be my old pen-and-paper thinking.

On that note, there has to be some kind of balance to be struck in the Glorantha wiki between the current 'buy this out-of-print product, page xx' and wiki entries that offer substantive information in the entries but still encourage product sales.

On 3/2/2019 at 12:39 PM, metcalph said:

I doubt Thanatar is worshipped to any great extent within Peloria.  He's not the type of god that one can worship in secret.

 

Actually, canon has *extensive* Thanatar activity all through Carmania, Dara Happa, and elsewhere.

Specifically, RQ3's 'Shadows on the Borderlands' [a supplement to 'River of Cradles'] has an antagonist Thanatari who came to Prax from a large Thanatar cult complex in Carmania, took over a shrine in Peloria, and moved on to the Vulture Country near the Zola Fel.

On 3/5/2019 at 11:59 PM, Joerg said:

I think that the main problem with undercover Illuminates is that their low regard for the cultural norms of the people they joined goes both way. They are about as reliable as tricksters (though they aren't Tricksters in the normal sense).

You'd probably need more advanced illuminates to handle them somewhat, but then those more advanced illuminates have utterly different concerns, and why should they bother? Special teaching by the Red Emperor or the Great Sister might be the only thing to motivate them. Or not.

Think of illuminate infiltrators as a cadre of chemtrails devotees sent to investigate the aircraft industry for cartel moves.

To my knowledge, only two Gloranthan societies have actively tried to harness Illumination, maybe three... The First Council's Bright God project that birthed Nysalor, the Jrustelan God Learners [an arguable point.. they may not have been Nysalor Riddlers per se, but their actions were Illuminated in practice], and the Lunar Colleges. You see how well each one of those societies prospered for their temerity.

With all that being said, I see Illumination as something kept very secret; something only shared between one believer to another on an individual basis. They may network among themselves, but they don't organize. There are few if any 'Illumination clubhouses'. I would think that most of the smart Illuminates [or at least the cautious ones] operate like King Oddi of the Bilini. Oddi may understand that Order and Chaos are two sides of the same coin, he might understand that neither can exist without the other. But he is also aware of his position and duty as king of his people. If a fellow Illuminate were to contact him, he would judge that Illuminate solely on the effect that person has on his people. And if that means that he personally orders that Illuminate executed, he will without a second thought.

12 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Gorgorma cult is officially tolerated by the Lunar Empire, although it is usually discouraged and quietly suppressed by local rulers. It has some very powerful protectors within the Lunar Empire, so those local rulers need to tread very carefully.

She is much like Babeester Gor and Maran Gor that way. The Earth will have it's due, in blood, in silver, and in POW sacrificed from *everyone*. To do ought else invites utter ruination. Prior to the Dragonrise, no other cult or society could match the power of the Earth Mothers when angered... Certainly not the Red Goddess, and the Storm Gods didn't even try. Even the Malkioni's Invisible God knows better than to place his dogma in direct opposition to Ernalda. It is unknown whether or nor Argrath has any kind of control or influence over Dragons... just waking one up was Heroic enough... but he will not risk angering Samastina, Clearwine, the Paps or any other large collections of Earth power. He knows better than that.