svensson

7 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Hauberk Jon is said to be the wyter of Jonstown - is it possible that there can be a bit of an overlap between ancestors and wyters? Ie. not all wyters are ancestors, and not all ancestors are wyters, but both CAN BE the other?

I don't know of anything that says they can't be. In matters of spirits there are very few absolutes in Glorantha.

However, it would be very rare for a wyter to have a personality such that it actually had a name. Most of the time, it would be a new clan with direct memory of the actual person [in the anthropological sense... as in, 'my grandfather's spirit has chosen to stay with us as the clan wyter'].

Quick follow up.

Yes the clan wyter can be asked question and it can give answers, but only in a nebulous way. Since it doesn't have a personality, it doesn't have opinions. Its answers are based on how the clan has handled the question over the clan's lifetime. This is great for questions of run-of-the-mill importance, but the wyter is the wrong being to ask when something outside the clan's traditions and experiences needs addressing.

So in this specific question... A Balanced clan who worships Orlanth as their main god [pretty much the KODP game vanilla clan] has two equally respected people who could fill the vacant Ginna Jar seat on the Clan Ring. Because the ring is missing a member, there is a hung vote in the ring for who should take that seat. The decision is made to ask the wyter who would best fill the role. The Ring gathers the clan and reverently removes the wyter totem from its niche in the Orlanth temple. Two sticks are driven into the ground before the wyter totem and scarf or kerchief from each candidate is laid atop one stick each. The clan Lawspeaker then beseeches the wyter to express which candidate would best fill the role for the benefit of the clan. A stiff breeze picks up [Orlanth reference there] and each scarf flies off its respective stick, but one scarf sails off into the air while one flutters to the base of the wyter totem. The candidate whose scarf the wyter 'selected' becomes the Ginna Jar seat holder.

1 hour ago, Leingod said:

Because it's been repeatedly stated that a Lightbringer clan ring has seven people sitting on it, and that odd number is important for the sake of tie-breaking.

As argumentative as Orlanthi are, the last thing you want in a council is a tie vote!

As to the 'why not just use the wyter' question, the wyter is not an ancestor-type spirit. It doesn't speak directly to petitioners. It doesn't have a personality or a voice. A wyter is a spirit of the clan's collective wisdom and experience, not the ancestor spirits of the clan founders. Those are separate beings which can be contacted with the right rituals and a skilled shaman. Not all clans have a shaman that knows those rituals. But the wyter is contacted through worship of the clan's main deity and reverence for 'those who came before us'.

Is it really bad to scroll through that list and note how many of those titles I have in Dead Tree [tm] format?

Nope.

49 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Summon the ancestors and let them decide!  After all, most bloodlines descend from certain select individuals early in the clan founding.

Presuming heredity works the same way in Glorantha as is does on Earth, that would be one seriously inbred clan! It must be really tough to be a war clan full of hemophiliacs...

Ok, seriously, most clans rely on adoptions, marriages, fosterage and so on to mix up the gene pool. Instead of the clan ancestor spirits, it seems to me that the best way to select the Ginna Jar [if the clan can't do it by itself] is to ask the clan wyter instead.

11 hours ago, Robin "RoM" Mitra said:

My question was actually not so much about the Who they would appoint (I am sure that is open to much debate and power brokering) but more about the How. SKoH says on a Lightbringer clan ring Ginnar Jar is represented by the heads of households. Now there are many households but only one seat on the ring. How do they do that?

Would they simply choose one household and thereby ignoring that Ginna Jar is the community rather than an individual? Would they form a ring of households and send a spokesperson from among them to the clan ring? Would they take turns by season or year? Would they have other ideas how to represent a community on a single seat?

The 'head of household' can be many things. In a traditional rural Orlanthi clan, I would think that would be the steading holder. In a more urban area, that might mean 'household' as we would define it on Earth, i.e, the head person of all those who live within a single family home..

Do they rotate places on the Clan Ring? My inclination is 'no'. Once a person is selected for the Ring, the serve until they quit, retire or die.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

A stickpicker or shepherd boy can start a feud all on his own, and so can a spiteful bride of mediocre standing. While it is always possible to exile such trouble-makers, elevating anyone to the clan ring will raise their status to that of thane for at least as long as they hold that office. And yes, that includes the trickster.

Absolutely, though the clan may not entirely appreciate a trickster in the Ginna Jar seat given the vagaries of Luck and a trickster's conduct. The Ginna Jar seat is supposed to represent clan traditions, wisdom and leadership through good counsel [whatever 'good counsel' means to that clan]. Since the Eurmal already has a seat within Orlanth's Ring, the clan may wish a more common person at that seat to represent cottars and carls rather than the troublemakers. Of course, none of this prevents a Eurmali from holding the seat. Tricksters have a habit of filling in the odd roles of society that others cannot fill.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This sounds like the kind of person you'd like as a tiebreaker, too.

Someone from a minor lineage, whose political interests aren't overly entangled in established feuds, for example.

And isn't likely to start any feuds either

On 3/24/2019 at 9:49 AM, Joerg said:

While his journey to the Threestep Isles certainly proved the concept of the Opening to Kethaela and Handra, it didn't start the Hero Wars any more than Sartar's founding of the kingdom bearing his name or the 1602 conquest of Boldhome.

Tatius' escalation of the Siege of Whitewall resulting in the Windstop is fairly legitimate as starting date. There may be other events in other parts of the world roughly in the same period, but with less obvious ubiquitious effect.

 

There have been others. Arkat apotheosized around 500. Pavis (Second Age) and Sartar (1520) are known examples preceding Dormal. And there is a whole bunch of Lunar mortals who became deities, like the Seven Mothers, Etyries and others less well known in Dragon Pass.

Hon-eel is a borderline case. She does have a cult which provides divine magic, but her disappearance at the Battle of the Night of Horrors is similar to Alakoring being chained to Sheng's Hell. But then Dormal sailing across the borders of the Inner World is similar to that, too.

 

But Arkat apotheosized as a hero of Humakt, not a separate deity in and of himself. The same with both the Seven Mothers and Sartar. The Mothers were raised up by the will and power of Sedendya /Red Goddess, but not by their own deeds. The same could be said about Sartar as a personal wyter of the nation he founded, raised up by the will of Orlanth Rex.

Dormal, on the other hand, Quested on his own dime, so to speak. He journeyed to the Three-Step Isles, then proceeded to break the Syndics Ban around world before plunging into Magasta's Pool and arriving in the Celestial Heavens as god without the sponsorship of a pantheon or deity.

This makes Dormal pretty unique.

Okay, I'm taking my examples here from both the KODP game and the Riskland Campaign in the Dorastor book for RQ3. As with every 'theo- philo- sophical' discussion on this board, your mileage will vary.

As I understand it, Ginna Jar represents the 'spirit of the people': the collective wisdom of the clan wyter, the lessons and experiences of the 'quest' that keeping and holding the clan lands has given the whole. So if a steadholder is on the Clan Ring as representitive of Ginn Jar, they are usually someone of uncommon perception and wisdom. They'd be a person of thoughtfulness and experience with a well-run steading and a healthy family. They wouldn't necessarily have to an elder, but they'd have to be widely respected. For one fantasy example, a Samwise Gamgee type as portrayed in the epilogue chapters of LOTR. He's seen and done some pretty big things, but his principal cares are his family, his community, and the land.

As to who specifically that would be really depends on the nature of the clan and its needs.  A basic guide is who the clan worships as their main deity, and the influence of the other Lightbringers. Is the clan strong with Issaries? Then someone who can negotiate well without making insult for feud may be selected. A War clan might have a thane, or at minimum a battle-tested fryrd-warrior, in that role. In a patriarchal farming clan, it might be a well-thought-of Barntar initiate who works hand in hand with the Ernalda priestesses.

Any of that making sense?

1 hour ago, Byll said:

And what's wrong with pygmies on ostriches may I ask? People are polite enough to out of scale Agimori and Highllama riders, but when Goodfeather or I rock up on and ostrich it's all 'shortchanged' jokes and cracks about feathers in caps. 

Juuust gonna leave this here....

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

I had a Giant Broo, Son of Thed and the Devil, who had an Ability of "Comes in gallons", but maybe not in the same way!

Just gonna go with 'ick!' and leave it at that...

6 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

I'm quite aware of that and Jeff was discussing how techniques aren't used to cast Dormals opening.  He goes on to say in sorcery it would be water and command.

Obviously, were it that simple, the Closing would have lasted 1 day.  His point being that the magic casters are calling on through Dormal requires the water RUNE.  Not the technique.  He flat out states this.

Well, to be fair, it can be fairly held that Dormal's Quest of Opening was the first HeroQuest of the Hero Wars. He was a mortal man who Quested to Open the Syndic's Ban and then ascended to Godhood within the bounds of Time, and only the second mortal to do so [Sedenya ascending to the Red Goddess being first]. As I understand it, Arkat may or may not count, as he is an ascended Hero but is only worshiped as a Hero in Humakt and Kyger Litor, not as a God in and of himself.

As to casting Open Seas, yes, Jeff has stated clearly that the caster must be attuned to the Water Rune [it must be greater than 50%] in order to cast the spell.

49 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Maybe from this thread:

 

Esvularings meaning the people who follow Aeolianism.

Probably there or the GoG text supporting it.

Just now, Runeblogger said:

Yes. But Orlanth does not mind. 🙂

Presumably they're still getting spells and not being visited by Spirits of Reprisal [of which Orlanth as more than his fair share], so they must be doing something right

1 minute ago, Kloster said:

Completely agree.

This is exactly what we have understood.

But aren't Aeolians considered heretics by True Orlanthi? For some reason I believe that to be true but it beats me where I got it.

3 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Yeah it will solve the problems, but in the meantime campaigns with non-Dragon Pass characters will need some kind of rules for their stuff.

I know. I wanted to put together a Lunar thief just to do something different. The idea was that he'd be the team skill-monkey, lock-picker, and all round Doer of Very Bad Things. Had a hell of a time with it. I didn't like the idea of just filing off the name of Eurmal, couldn't find an appropriate Lunar cult, and was trying to stay away from Sorcery until some further guidance was available.

I haven't seen much in the Chaosium blog about upcoming RQG material.

I realize that the company has to support a whole menu of games, but is there any word on upcoming RQG releases? From a player standpoint, we could really use some scenarios to work with. For all of us who've been playing in the 1620 ST timeframe, the Dragonrise and liberation of Sartar has created some great conflict, but it's a bit tough to get a handle on scenario-wise.

1 minute ago, Brootse said:

Haha yeah, it's one of my players' favourite spells . And even though Steal Breath doesn't require POW vs. POW roll (if i understood the rules correctly), I made it require it IMG, so the wizard will get his POW increases from its use.

Hey, if your cult and associated cults can't get you Disrupt, you're in the wrong cult, bruh.

Last thing on this, swear to Orlanth

This is one reason why we might all be better off waiting for a Malkioni or Sorcery book to come out. It might save us all the speculation and rules contortions.

11 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Orlanth Initiates can't learn sorcery. So I think that in my campaign I'll let the Aeolian wizard be an Orlanth lay member, but get POW increase chances from his Aeolian rites as if he was a priest. At least until the official rules say otherwise.

Which brings up another interesting question.

In RQ3, when a cult specifies that Initiate and greater may not know sorcery, it speciifically says they must forget any sorcery known. This is one major reason why the God the Middle Air [and by extention Weather] doesn't have many sailors as worshippers, since sailors almost have to have Open Seas sorcery spell.

But does RQG require sorcery learned as a Lay member to be forgotten as an Inititate? I don't recall seeing anything specific to that, but I might have missed it.

Another very handy spell for the atheist soceror is Disruption. Sure it can be a cheap *ping* spell, but a POW gain roll is a POW gain roll no matter where it comes from.

10 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Might there be a possible pun there or have I been hanging at Puns we know and love for far too long. 

Bill, my impression of you says 'most likely'

10 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

March 28. If (a hard IF) there is a hard Brexit on March 29 I think we can look forward to some chaotic weeks before the shipments from UK arriwes in mainland Europe. I think that Brexit will be postponed but it may be an extremely busy period for the logistics industry. A lot of people will try to order things from the UK next week if there seems to be a Brexit on the 29th. The pound will be very cheap and the tariffs will come after.

Gads. What a pain in the ass.

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

https://www.chaosium.com/blogrunequest-slipcase-sets-to-be-released-on-march-28th/

WHOO-HOO!

I did not see anything in the announcement about pre-orders. Are they available or will they just get mobbed on street date?

@MOB? @Jeff Richard?