Ynneadwraith

One of my favourite things about Studio Ghibli's approach to spiritual worldbuilding is this sort of thing. That yes, humans have gods/spirits that they interact with, but so do animals and forests and all sorts of other things. You get the impression that even if humans weren't there at all, stories and events and life in general would just go on anyway. It's a bit of an antidote to the general human exceptionalism that sees us as above and beyond the world around us. Love it. Happy to see that approach happening anywhere I see it.

Sounds about right! Or, rather, people approach draconic magic from the angle of 'this is powerful magic I can use to knock the moon from the sky/wreck those pesky godlearners and never intend to learn the real philosophy in the first place. I'd argue they were never mystics to begin with, just powergamers cosplaying them. Surely that depends on how dreary the narration is 😉 Might be quite fun to play through that TBH. Communal heroquest, but people keep falling asleep partway through and you have to cobble the rest of it together before you doze off as well 😄

Take these two in combination: what if dragons are the gods of sleep and dreaming, and draconic magic is the dream magic of Glorantha. Added to the whole 'differences between illuminations' thread, and it fits a little further. Draconic mystics spend more and more time asleep in their dream-world/trance/meditation, distancing themselves from the world (though influencing it through the magic their dreams conjure). Draconic mysticism as a take on lucid dreaming, where first you learn to take control of the mythic dreamscape, before then learning to let go again and disappear up into the aether (or not, and going on a wakeful dreaming rampage). Sufficiently advanced draconic mystics never wake, but sleepwalk through their worldly existence. Nysalorian illumination is learning that all of the world is an illusion made of masks upon masks upon masks (and thus you can be whoever you want to be). Draconic illumination is learning that the whole world is a dream (and thus you can be whoever you want to be), and can be woken from (thus disappearing). Magic rains down from the holes in the sky-dome that dragons punch through, being absorbed into the minds of mortals when they are in their most draconic state (asleep and dreaming). Got to get that deep REM sleep otherwise the dragons can't get into your brain and give you magic powers 😉

Absolutely. I can just picture the tribal council in King of Wasteland Prax (KoWP) giving differing advice on what to do in this latest dilemma.

@Darius West @Jeff Such is the way that tribal conflicts begin...

Now we're talking 😉 perhaps none of them are. All variants of illumination as imperfect fragments of the One True Truth taught by Rashoran, and that died with him/her. Nysalorians might claim heritage from Rashoran's teachings, but who knows if they've pieced the vessel back together right, or if the gold they've repaired it with has changed the nature of the thing. All of these people running around thinking they're illuminated because they can mix and match runes, but are missing a fundamental piece of the puzzle that renders them safe. A little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge at all. Then again, I do like my mystery cults. And if you discover what the mystery is it's not a mystery anymore, so you need another layer of mystery to keep the punters coming back and paying their membership fees. As mentioned on the Lunar Observations thread, it's cow tools all the way down...

In the absence of much written history, may I post this thread (and especially Sir_Godspeed's vision of the beliefs of varied Ygglings). There's also some good discussion in and around the Ygg Isles in the rest of the thread. Not quite the history you're looking for, but might provide a bit of a jumping off point for you to create some of your own.

We understand that's how a firebow works, because we understand how friction works. For a Gloranthan, they may explain it as the bow creating a mythical representation of the Sky Dome, which then sends fire down the shaft (representing the sun's rays) to create fire in the temporal world (the base). In a Gloranthan context, that might actually be how it works. I knew there was a reason I liked you. That's one of the measures I use to judge someone's character by.

I suspect it's a Cow Tools moment...

Must there be? Could it not be that the Lunar missionaries came upon a group of Sable-riders and said 'Behold! You are the chosen of the Lunar Goddess! See, she has already chosen you by the shape of your horns, even though you didn't know it already'. It is Glorantha of course, so the answer to this question could well be 'yes'. Now this is an idea I like. There's precedent too, with the Storm of Orlanth being a very different thing to the storm of his father...

That's how I'd interpret it certainly. Red is only the colour of the latest Moon to take its place in the pantheon. There's Anilla the Blue Moon, a pending White Moon, and maybe even a long-gone Black Moon (and who knows what other moons were killed in prehistory). Meanwhile there are other red gods that are not Lunar, such as Shargash. The mysticism part I'd be happy with, as well as potentially some form of cyclical nature (perhaps in the early expressions of their magic not matching the traditional seasons). Though in reality I see it a bit like those hippy dippy spiritual folks who will confidently state that you're a Scorpio based on hearing barely two anecdotes about you. The whole process of gaining your runic affinities is poorly understood in-universe, and subject to a lot of superstition. Is it that a child is rushing around wildly because they are innately strong in the Movement rune, or does being encouraged to rush around wildly develop affinity with the Movement rune? A mix of both? Neither? Who knows*. *And this is good, because it leaves doors open for players and characters to develop freely - plugging in a Just So explanation as to why after the actual decision is made

Nysalor as Prometheus, giving the power of the gods (illumination) to mortals, and being punished for it? What does it say that later, Yelm (Zeus*), himself acknowledges Prometheus as having done the right thing (admits that he himself is illuminated)? It's a little more overt than what Zeus did (not necessarily punish his son Heracles when he freed Big P). *I'd always thought Zeus was more Orlanth in his behaviour, but fills the role of 'chief god' in this instance. Perhaps I watch too much scifi but that scene in The Thing with Norris' head came to mind (don't google if you're squeamish, though it is a fantastic film). I suppose the vision you receive depends on where you are standing, within the Glowline or somewhere with a bit more ozone in the air...

May I also offer a disproportionate number of unobserved cowpats...

Why stick with a goat when the world is your oyster (or hummingbird...or even Bat).

Yep pretty much! Definitely worth noting that the vast majority of historical polities weren't meritocratic. Or at least weren't meritocratic on the way in. On the way out they could be rather violently meritocratic...