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metcalph last won the day on November 29 2016

metcalph had the most liked content!

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About metcalph

  • Rank
    Great Sage Equal to Heaven


  • RPG Biography
    Gloranthan dabbler
  • Current games
  • Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
  • Blurb
    Keeper of the Glorantha Wikia
  1. A Drunken RuneQuest

    I didn't mind the profusion of new runes so much in HW/HQ1 but rather the lack of explanation as to what they meant. I wasn't looking for an absolute truth but rather the cultists interpretation of what the runes meant to them.
  2. p348 Map - comparing this map to the Entekosiad, the most striking feature is that most of the lands lie well north of the Poralistor River whereas the Entekosiad hardly ever mentions anybody living there. Also many of the places described as Pelandan in the Entekosiad do not lie within the Pelandan Plinth Culture which also includes Darsen. Finally I'm impressed that the Reindeer People were erecting stone circles during the Darkness.
  3. p344 - Dokat is described as the First Age capital but it is not the same as the City of Miracles. I assume the City was built when Nysalor was born and gradually superseded Dokat.
  4. p339 Piccie - perhaps it's just me but the Lunar soldier looks creeped out by the idol of HonEel which I thought was a real priestess until I read the description.
  5. p334 - the Iron Crown is mentioned once again (first in Griffin Mountain) but the name of the famous hero is still unknown. Alakoring is ruled out because the fate of the Crown is clearly that of the Battle of Highbridge, which took place a century or so before he was active.
  6. p319 - I had heard of Vorwaha Bisonlord as long ago as Dorastor: Land of Doom but this was the first time I heard that he became King of Sylila. p321 - Does a masterful job of explaining the two Cafols.
  7. p318 - Hero Wars begins. It's occured to me that we still don't have a name for the Not-the-Red-Emperor.
  8. p309 - Aririkoth is the same place as Rarokon in the Glorious ReAscent p30 p309 - the Older City that preceded Haranshold is probably Dzessmath (mentioned in the Glorious ReAscent). p310 - the statement that the Jewelled Vault is a tomb started me because I had previously thought that it was a treasure chamber according to the description in the Glorious ReAscent. Undoubtedly this is because Plentonius does not want to mention who is buried in the Vault. Manimat? Murharzarm?
  9. p302 - Map - the most curious thing is the territory marked temporary expansion. No explanation as to why it is so fleeting. I also think so indication of maize growing should have been shown on the map.
  10. p292 - I know I've speculated on the likely places before but I'm kinda disappointed that we are not given more information on the Broos Regiment Headquarters, the Madness College, Vampire Town, the Dislocated Zoo Grounds, Third Hand Illumination Town, Undragon Land and the Beyond Nightmares.
  11. Geography has changed dramatically elsewhere in Glorantha. I really don't see this as a refutation. Revealed Mythologies has some errors so I'm really not fussed about the inconsistencies found therein. In any case, that represents an Eastern Islanders view (whereas a Kralori view would be have say Niang Mao instead of Mashunasan). Judging from the Vormaini section of the Guide, I no longer believe that Osdero is another name for Metsyla. A dialect cannot be spoken officially (and the guide calls it an actual language rather than a dialect). In Zheng Guiren, the officials would speak and write Kralori while the locals would speak a Sofali language. I imagine the situation exists all over Kralorela much as it does in the Real World. What Vayobi unified would have been the different official languages as opposed to the non-Kralori dialects which there was no interest n. I'm afraid you are misled by Dara Happan mythology. The Naverians are a mixture of two cultures, the Estardavi (under the Red King) and the Wendarians (under Naveria). Both are considerably distant from their ancestors that emerged from the Green Age. The Estardavi are the Made People (the story of their creation is in the Glorious ReAscent p10) and is depicted as occurring well into the Golden Age. Naveria's home culture was a mixture of the Male and Female Tribes (AroTurru and Agraketae) whose meeting and union also occurs in the Golden Age. Valare describes these as taken part in the Wendarian Age (Golden Age) rather than the Provarian Age (Green Age) Brightface was first male leader of the Franaans of Darsen rather than the Hinnae of what later became Naveria. He had been appointed in the eighth generation after the first White Queen (according . It is my belief that the rule of the White Queens marks the Early Golden Age while the rule of the Brightface, the Red King and Yelm takes part in the Middle Golden Age (Murharzarm is Late Golden Age). The Dara Happans have purposely forgotten everything related to the White Queens in order to promote the supremacy of Yelm. If and when they do encounter the White Queen in mythology, they assume her to be a degeneration of Yelm's Perfect Empire rather than a precursor. As for Nochet being about as old, yes I agree. The Grandmothers are lying here too for similar reasons. I'm not really concerned about what the God Learners might have called him. Even if Ebe were representative of a Kralori of the Green Age, the fact that the Kralori believe Aptanace to be his son means little in terms of determining when Aptanace lived. The scheme could have been Ebe was brought to intelligence and awareness by the love of Okerio (marking the beginning of the Golden Age). They begat a dynasty of increasingly intelligent cultural heroes, the latest and greatest of whom was Aptanace. Much later on, the Kralori omit all the possible ancestors between Ebe and Aptanace in order to further glorify the impact of Okerio. So Aptanace could have been very early Golden Age, middle Golden Age or even late Golden Age. It depends on how what the Aptanacid culture is like and that we don't have enough information. I said making use of rivers (dams and irrigation). That is still late Golden Age. But Durev isn't exactly early Golden Age is he? He's more like Storm Age. Tada is well into the west and lived well in the Storm Age (the first mention of him in the mythic maps has in the Middle Storm Age - Guide p689). Tada also had troubles with the Basmoli and allied with the Vingkotlings thus again he is not comparable to Aptanace. I would avoid trying to draw connections all over the place. Oorduren lived on the far side of Abzered. NiangMao would have been far more likely to consult with the Ineffable Thirteen then he would with Oorduren. But I believe that whoever NiangMao consulted with came from within Kralori mythology (HeenMaroun etc). I doubt it was the Dragonewts because when the Dragon People are described in the Guide, nobody thinks to mention the Dragonewts of Fanzai and Hum Chang. Hence I think the Dragonewts came later as a result of Daruda. Secondly NiangMao is active in Puchai whereas Aptanace is primarily active in Hanjan. Any culture influenced by NiangMao would therefore be a contemporary culture of the Aptanacids. While Shavaya invented a great many things, I think it an error to describe the people he helped as Hsunchen. They were Kralori just like the people of Aptanace and NiangMao. Shavaya was ruling in the Late Storm Age (Guide p692)and Kralorela had been ruled by Metsyla for up to forty or fifty thousand years. Just because Bodkartu appears in Halisayan's mythology does not mean that she, Thalurzni and Halisayan form a mythic whole. Halisayan would have two mythic cycles - her life with Thalurzni and her life with Bodkartu. As for the effect of the Pill of Immortality, I think Halisayan was a dead goddess or a corpse at the time. The Pill of Immortality brought her back to be able to be worshipped by the Kralori during the Great Darkness. My problem with your current style of theorizing is that you tend to assume that if an X figure appears, it must have been the real X that was interacted with. Whereas I am seeing mythologies as reactions to and interpretations of events of cosmic importance (coming of death, death of the Sun). I prefer to keep interactions within the same region (what happened in Kralorela stays in Kralorela) early in the Golden Age with wider interactions taking place much later in the Storm Age. For example, if I were to posit a connection between the Kralori Empire and Genert, I would rule out the early Emperors in favour of the later ones. In the Golden Age, there wouldn't an awareness of a world beyond the boundaries of Kralorela whereas in the Storm Age, the countries have united and conquered their local menaces and are struggling with their each other. Shavaya is described as ruling in the later Storm Age/Lesser Darkness (Guide p692). Daruda himself isn't mentioned until the Great Darkness (Guide p695). Secondly Sekever isn't mentioned in connection with Govmeranen but rather the Minister of Fire (Guide p262 - probably a successor to HeenMaroun). Again, I do not understand why you think there is no vegetation.
  12. No. I think they originally lived in a shallow sea or lake and their land dried up. Rebellus Terminus is Pelorian mythology and I really wouldn't use it in this context. It implies certain assumptions about the nature of the Demon that are not necessarily true. Again HeenMaroun is a contemporary of Yelm, his mythology does not track closely with yelm at every particular nor should it. I count sixteen countries because Vayobi created the Kralori language from the more than fifteen languages (Guide p55). The extra one is Chern Durel. HeenMaroun is early/middle Golden Age. I really don't see a civilization founder existing at the end of the Green Age. Murharzarm, a parallel figure, is late Golden Age. Debate on when Aptanace was active depends on how developed his arts were when he lived. He could be much earlier than Murharzarm but then he would be a neolithic type much like the cultures of the Entekosiad. However he is twice mentioned in context with Rivers (Jumo is his son by a river goddess and another son, Julan Hombondol invents dams and irrigation). That suggests a late Golden Age as gloranthans begin to make use of the rivers. However he could also be founder of city life like of a Catal Hayuk level of development and the subsequent arts that developed after he lived were ascribed to a son of his as a way of incorporating it within his civilization. Aptanace is however not mentioned as a King or an Emperor. So I really see a city-state culture in Hanjan. The lack of Aptanace deeds in Wanzow (other than being born there) suggests an attempt to civilize Wanzow much later. Or Thaluzrni could have just married the Goddess Halisayan long after the Doom Conjunction as Bodkartu doesn't appear in his mythology. Careful now. The Boshan believe Daruda to have been one of them. That doesn't mean that Daruda comes from Boshan. If the Turtle People were betrayed by someone who wanted to become a Dragon, the motive is strong for that traitor to be identified as Daruda when it came to being ruled by the Dragon Emperors. Ergo effective magical resistance to draconic imperialism. The passage is from Heaven Corrupted in the Glorious ReAscent p74 and goes: Except that Daruda's reign and title of Mover of Heaven stem from the Great Darkness, not when he was studying to become a Dragon. Yothbedta's Stream is only mentioned in context of ShangHsa and there seems to be an error in that Yothbedta is a Plant Goddess. I think Greg meant Yothenara but Summer Land Heaven is mentioned is described as a resting place for mortals between lives according to Revealed Mythologies p125 It's from Gods of Glorantha (it even survives in HeroQuest Voices). Reconcilation is possible by assuming that virtuous Kralori stay longer at Summer Land Heaven so that they have a greater chance of being with the Emperor when he passes on. I'm not sure where you get the uninhabited bit from. There are peoples on Vithela according to Revealed Mythologies (Venform, Mashunasan etc) while the Guide p477 has a ship from Vithela docking to trade.
  13. Sages are not necessarily ascetics in Glorantha. The text speaks of the "Boshani folk religion descended from the ancient Turtle People". In other words, they are not Turtle People but their ancestors were Turtle People in the distant past. Just state Dragon People which is what the Guide (p283) calls them. Secondly the Dragon People were said to 1) perhaps ruled before the coming of the Emperors or 2) the First Emperors (TarnGatha and HeenMaroun) may or may not have been Dragon People. In any event, the Boshan ritual refers to Daruda (or a contemporary) who is considerably later than the first Emperors So in short the Dragon People are presumed to have been around in the early Golden Age. They disappear or devolve mysteriously such that Metsyla (not a Dragon) is ruling in the late Golden Age and afterwards. Personally I divide Kralorela up into sixteen different countries, with Aptanace dominating one region and the various Emperors being parallel dynasties rather than consecutive rulers. The whole mythology is unified under the reign of Vashanti whose Web of Righteous Knowledge distorts the chronology. Sekever becomes a mythical conflation of three enemies - the Blood Sun worshippers, the Trolls and the Huan To (while outside Kralorela, he's seen as a Kralori Emperor). Daruda's studies could have been during the Storm Age before Sekever came. The time between becoming Infinite and returning to the World of Life and Death is not stated in the text.
  14. I think from the position given in Esrolia: Land of Ten Thousand Goddess, it is the same as the modern city of Monros (according to the Guide). Since Monros is also said to be the name of a King, it probably was part of the Adjusted Lands with Monros as the King of the City (and surrounding lands).