rust

Ah, but if the reward is actually mattering to his

decision making, it is. If he's doing it entirely by channelling in-character,

then the reward doesn't matter.

I see the reward as a way to remind him of the "cultural values" of his cha-

racter. Therefore the reward is neither big enough to really influence his de-

cision nor so small that one does not remember it. It is something like an in-

direct way to say "You think of your character's background ?" now and then.

But you're the one who decides if he _is_ operating according to his

cultural values, not him.

In theory, yes. But I never had to decide it. The player explains to me and

the other players why he considers a certain decision of his character to be

based on the character's cultural values. If his explanation is not convincing

(which happens only very rarely), the other players say so, and it is over -

the entire "procedure" usually takes just a couple of sentences.

I would only have to make a decision if the players could not find a common

ground within a very short time.

This still suffers from the problem with all such mechanics; it rewards the player with an in-game reward for metagame decisions, and it sets the GM's understanding of the character ahead of the player's.

I am not sure that a player's decision to play his character according to the

characterization he developed for that character really is a "metagame de-

cision", unless you consider all character roleplay a kind of "metagame deci-

sion" ?

And no, not the GM's understanding. It is the player who decides whether his

character will act according to his "cultural values" or take an easier route,

I have no influence at all on this decision and its consequences, except indi-

rectly through providing the setting.

Congratulations and Celebrations ! :thumb:

This is very, very good news, and I have no doubt at all that The Green will

be an excellent setting for BRP !

Hey, and my group may well have been among the first ones to visit this

new setting ...

Certainly in a Cthulhu or science fiction game, the emphasis is on characters as investigators, explorers, scientists, and other cool-headed types.

I have used something very similar to the Pendragon traits in my science fic-

tion setting in order to show the differences in the cultures of human colo-

nies.

For example, the Avalonians usually are rather pacifistic (because of their re-

ligion), most Samarrans are a bit greedy (it is the base of a trading league),

and Flexians are expected to be independent (many of them are asteroid mi-

ners).

While the players do not have to use these personality traits, the traits give

them an impression of what their societies wanted them to be like, and of

what their upbringing and education was aiming at.

If a player decides to use his culture's personality traits, this can give him a

(very small) bonus in certain situations.

For example, an Avalonian who could easily solve a problem through the use

of his weapons, but decides to take a more difficult and potentially dange-

rous way in order to avoid violence, is given a minor reward like the permis-

sion to re-roll one important roll.

I feel that this approach did encourage the players to focus a bit more on

roleplaying their characters without breaking the system in any serious way.

Or do you think that Wikipedia is the definitve source about this matter?

Not necessarily, but on the other hand I do not see any reason why I should

prefer your definition to the Wikipedia definition.

And in the end the entire question whether D&D 4.0 is a RPG or not is hardly

more than a way to kill the time, and I do not prefer my time dead.

My favourite settings are sandboxes.

My current setting is a sandbox, too.

I find it quite useful to give new players the kind of informations Jason men-

tioned as a base for their character generation.

They really should know the available options for their characters' roles ("who

they are"), what kinds of adventures their characters might have to face in

the setting ("what do they do"), and what the potential challenges could be

("what opposes them").

Without this background, many of the players would create characters which

would not fit well (or at all) into the setting, and therefore would hardly have

much fun with the game.

Is this round and round still serving any sort of purpose?

Yep, it is. Just think of the Guiness Book of Records and the next entry on

The Longest Forum Thread. We are working hard on it. :cool:

I think you should first take a look at the 4e books before answering your own questions with "yes".

Rest assured that I did take a close look at what has been published until

now. I will definitely neither buy nor play it, as mentioned "upthread", but

I will also not give it a dishonourable discharge from the ranks of RPGs.

Now, let us take a look at a common (Wikipedia) definition of roleplaying ga-

mes:

A role-playing game (RPG; often roleplaying game) is a game in which the

participants assume the roles of fictional characters and collaboratively cre-

ate or follow stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters

based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to

a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, players can improvi-

se freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games.

Can one do all this with D&D 4.0 ?

- assume the role of a fictional character: yes

- collaboratively create or follow stories: yes

- use rules to decide the success of actions: oh, yes

- improvise freely within the rules: well, yes

- shape the direction and outcome of the game: yes

Is D&D 4.0 a roleplaying game, according to this definition ?

Obviously, yes.

Do we need another, more narrow definition of what an RPG is ?

Not in my opinion, I have no idea what it could be good for.

So, could we let it stand there, please ?

Maybe as a clue to what it is, there could be some kind of fabric in it with mysterious () stains on it:D

Knowing my players, I am sure that this would convince them that it is not a

washing machine, but some terribly dangerous doomsday machine designed

to eradicate the entire human race ...

A very nice drawing, and in my opinion it fits the description of the Tree Chil-

dren very well.

It may not be apparent that it is a washing machine. Let the poor characters figure it out.>:->

Ah, I had this before. It was a piece of furniture, a kind of "couch", of the

"Builder" aliens. A strange device with lots of bars and braces and nets and

wires, all made from genetically engineered species (the Builders, being an

aquatic race, use biotechnology instead of "metal technology"), and it had

partially decayed since the Builders had left the place.

The players, convinced that it was something as powerful and therefore im-

portant as one of the "Gates" of the Builders, had their characters spend

more than an hour (real time) with an attempt to "activate" the couch, and

finally decided to interrupt the exploration of the alien station in order to

transport the worthless piece of junk to the colony for a closer inspection.

Well, I loved that "adventure", although it was very hard to stay earnest du-

ring it. However, I am not sure that my players did already forgive me that

extraordinary roleplaying experience, and torturing them now with an alien

washing machine could have unfortunate consequences ... :eek:

In the Thousand Suns RPG the characters have "hooks", which can be ad-

vantages or disadvantages, and which the GM or the character can "invo-

ke" whenever the situation makes this seem right.

The character then gets an "action point" for this situation, and with one

or more such action points the player can, for example, reroll one roll or

edit the situation in a minor way.

I like the idea, because there is no list of possible hooks, and GM and play-

er can develop these up to five hooks of a character (who can gain or lose

other hooks during the game) together, to design a unique character perso-

nality with a unique roleplaying focus.

I probably should begin to think about an adventure with a washing machine

at the centre ... perhaps an alien washing machine ...

Hideous appearance of creature demoralizes those who it beats in a POW vs. POW resistance roll.

Hideous indeed, and I really feel somewhat demoralized by it ... :eek:

The question whether D&D 4.0 is an RPG or not must have a lot of POW ...

Absolutely. As a Fantasy man, it's clear to me that the one-or-two SciFi/Apocalypse fans out there have used their techno-savvy to pad the votes...

There is a second one, really ? :shocked:

Ah, well, in that case I will of course go on padding the vote, knowing that

it is no longer just selfish ... :cool:

I am really looking forward to a Science Fiction supplement for BRP, my copy

of Ringworld is beginning to show its age ...

Worst ever, at least of those I have attempted to read:

Stephen R. Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever".

Trying to read it was hard work, no fun involved ...

I'm hoping someone on this forum from France has bought or used one of these and can tell us how good it works:)

An interesting idea, although I am not sure that those hydroxide ions (OH-)

would be very good for the cloth - I will look for some more informations.

Thank you for the link !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another interesting idea for Pharos IV might be phytomining: Genetically mo-

dified algae are used to extract valuable minerals from the sea water, for

example magnesium, which is used to produce aluminium and titanium alloys.

I'm a bit confused on the solar paint, though. Wouldn't there need to be 'electrodes' and batteries to collect the energy the paint is absorbing? It seems from the article that all you have to do is paint some steel and you've got electricity?

I think one would of course have to connect the "painted solar panel" to so-

me kind of energy storage device like a battery (energy cells based upon su-

perconductor loops in the case of Pharos IV).

Here are some more informations about the basic idea of Solar Paint:

Spray-On Solar-Power Cells Are True Breakthrough

NJIT - PublicInfo: NJIT Researchers Develop Inexpensive, Easy Process To Produce Solar Panels

CBC Toronto - Features - Solar Revolution

Edit.:

And this is the energy storage technology that the colonists on Pharos IV use:

Superconducting magnetic energy storage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since the focus of D&D 4e obviously is on the combat system, and combat is

not at the centre of my setting (with futuristic weapons around, characters

develop a tendency to avoid realistic combat ...), I will most probably ignore

4e and the almost inevitable 4e Modern and 4e Future.

What 4e has to offer apart from the combat system is just a - from my point

of view - overly complicated and all in all quite mediocre system, with a lot

more unnecessary rules than I like for my roleplaying.

I take a keen interest in "green" and "free" energy.

A technology very often used on Pharos IV is the Savonius Turbine:

Savonius wind turbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is very simple, extremely rugged and quite cheap, and it works with ocean

currents just as well as with wind.

On Pharos IV, almost all floaters and ships have some kind of Savonius turbi-

ne as a secondary power production system, and even many seafloor habi-

tats use them.

Savonius turbines are also the type used for the colony's first ocean current

power plant. While their energy output is lower than that of other types of

turbines, the initial costs and the maintenance requirements are much lower,

too.

Due to the weather conditions on Pharos IV, the most common type is the

"flat" one without any kind of mast, approximately like this one:

Forgen Wind Powered Generator

Another technology often used on Pharos IV is Solar Paint:

Swansea University - Latest Research

Since both floaters and SWATH ships usually have large horizontal areas that

are not used very often for other purposes, it seemed a logical idea to use

such "sun decks" for energy production by coating them with solar paint.

Together, Savonius turbines and Solar paint provide just enough energy to

keep the basic life support systems of a floater or ship running in emergency

situations, for example when a cyclone interrupts the energy grid of a floater

settlement (which usually has only one fusion reactor on a separate floater),

or when a ship has to shut down its fusion reactor for some reason.

They even have a free download of a water world name Faren (I thought it was an interesting coincidence in how close the names are).

Strange indeed. I took the name Pharos from the famous lighthouse of Ale-

xandria, one of the Seven Wonders, perhaps they started with a similar idea.

The download has an interesting description of a seamount, perhaps I will

"borrow" a few ideas there.

I took a look at the other links again, and among the things I will introduce

to Pharos IV in the near future are:

- sea wave power and desalination plants,

- solar energy to power small watercraft (or at least to reload their energy

cells),

- bioplast and biomembranes produced from algae.

Some of the other ideas I will discuss with the players (or offer them to their

characters in the game).

Again, thank you very much for your help !

Salt Art and Halite ... I will think about it, perhaps there is some good way

to introduce it.

Tomorrow I will "work" through the many fascinating links you provided me

with and make a couple of notes for my setting - thank you again !

And if you have any more interesting ideas, please keep them coming, I

will be back in just a few hours.

This is just plain interesting ...

True, but unfortunately it will work only for very small and very light robots

on a very calm sea. So, it would not be of much use in my setting, where

the average weather conditions would sink such robots almost immediately

- at least those that are not eaten by something.