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I'm sorry too. While I wasn't bashing Mongoose with that post, I did sorta take a shot at you. Sorry. But, look on the bright side, getting into an argument with me sees to be thge new "rite of passage" for RQ/BRP players. Considered yourself initiated. You can now learn cult battle magic for half price and sacrifice for one-use rune magic. And... ...I WANT CAMPAIGN PACKS!!!! :D:D

Enpeze, I see your point about D&D being the gaming fro the masses. I do not entirely agree with it though. Over the years, most of my gaming groups have been comprised of "reformed" D&Ders. While a good percentage of thsoe player never "got" systems like RQ/BRP, others did. Quite a few players did get into things once they started to realize the differences and what sort of new options that were available. So I think is isn't so much, "what the masses want", but "what the masses have been taught to expect". IMO similar to the situation with AOL.

True. But one problem with Mongoose's variant was the reason why they made changes. Way back, when the game wasn't out and most of us were art the site asking questions, I used to ask, over and over, "why did they change that?" The answer I kept getting was "You didn't expect a new edition wouldn't have changes did you? Of course there were going to be changes." And that was the problem. In the past, changes to BRP were for a game specfic reason. Either to fix or improve a rule, or to have BRP fit a certain setting, or even to simplify the rules so they didn't have to reprint the entire RQ2 book. Mongoose changed things just to change things, and make sure that their game was differnt that previous editions of RQ. So I think it is possible to imrpove BRP, but it isn't easy. Changes have to aim at improving the game in some way, elimintating flaws and so forth. Since BRP is a pretty good system (in our eyes, anyway) there are not as many flaws to address.

I diagree. Not that we need a clunky version, but the current way BRP handles unarmed combat is ludicrous. A guy with an 17 STR and SIZ should not throw punches with the same effect as a strike from a light mace. For supers, something like this is vital. That was probably Palldium's biggest weakness with their Supers game. Most "heroes" ended up being serial killers. But, keep in mind, just how BRP Handles non-lethal combat is open to lots of possiblities. Rather than tracking subdual damage or some such, the game could just incorporate the old stun/knock out rules, and maybe have the damage apply somhow to fatigue (either by a point method if you use RQ3 fatigue points, or as a modifer to a CON roll an RQ2 ish method. Something like each mutiple of HP dropping your mutipliers by 1 for the CON roll would work.)

badcat, Put me down for another who considers the "check to improve" XP system a core part of RQ/BRP. Firth Cycles XP system is, IMO more along the lines of DragonQuest than RuneQuest. One thing that made RQ easier to run, and went over well with the D&D players was how fast/easy it was to handle experience. Rather than spending time adding up and dividing XP, things only took a couple of minutes to roll over some skills. Plus the gradual improvement gave a strong feeling of character growth. Experience ends up being a byproduct of adventuring or the goal of actual study, rather than a reward for spending time at the table or killing monsters.

What bashing? My comment wasn't a bash, but pointing out an opportunity for BRP. Holding up ONE adventure, that hasn't even been released yet hardly contradicts the point of my previous post, that the MRQ crowd would be a good crossover market for BRP campaign packs. Right now the plain is pretty barren. Considering just how fast Mongoose puts out stuff, it is fairly obvious that adventures for MRQ are not a high priority. Sure they have the capability to churn out 30 adventures a year, but they haven't. They could do a lot of things. I think Mongoose is only second to WotC as far are sheer volume of RPG output goes. Don't get ticked at me for pointing out an area that Mongoose has yet to cover. That's not a bash. I didn't type anything bad about Mongoose.

So that makes what, ONE adventure for a system that they have been publishing for over a year? While producing how many sourcebooks? Allow me to update my previous statement: "....It could be a useful way to tap all those MRQ groups. Especially since Mongoose publishes virtually no MRQ adventures."

Whatever settings they release, I really hope Chasoium goes with the campaign pack format. A setting, half a dozen or so adventures, and a enough infomration to expand. I used to show Borderlands to the local D&Ders. General consensus among the AD&D crowd was that it blew any module series away. Plus campaign packs have a higher attraction for conversion to other systems, meaning more sales. It could be a useful way to tap all those MRQ groups. Especially since Mongoose doesn't seem to publish MRQ adventures.

Oh, I think BRP certainly could use some tweaks ans upgrades. Chasoium used to tweak the game here and there. A non-lethal combat system is something of a must in this day and age, probably along with some sort of player points to adjust die rolls. I don't thing a overhaul is a good idea, just more along the lines of Agentorange's idea of sidebar rules (or maybe in the spot rules section). Keep the core rules and just proide options. There are a lot of neat things that have come out in games in the last 15 years that could benefit BRP. Even simple stuff like the retrat rule from GURPs or Usagi Yojimbo, skill stunts, perhaps a stun/shock mechanic, lots of things. A lot of this could end up in setting books too. I.e. a more advanced jousting system for a middle Ages setting.

But do you agree with ANY of it? I did say IMO. I think most BRPers would agree in part to most of it, just differ over what the percentages. I think most RQ2 fans would rate the AH deal as #1 reason. With people like you, Triffle, and Enpeze hanging around, this site feels strangely familiar.

Harnmaster comes to mind. Although a different system, it has a lot in common with RQ. Enough so that my RQ group got felt very comfortable with it. Another very BRPish game was Privateers & Gentelmen. THis was a minatures/RPG system for playing in the Age or Sail. The game system was probably closer to RQ than Other Suns was, down to including category modifiers ala RQ2. As a side bit of Trivia he game was written By Walter Jon Williams who went on to fame as a writer of cyberpunk science fiction.

Reasons why BRP isn't that popular (IMO): 1)Obscurity. With the exception of CoC the system hasn't been available, or seen much by most gamers. CoC is a game where the mechanics of BRP are sort of downplayed (most the monsters are bullet resistant). So just to be aware or BRP probably means that you've been gaming for 15 years or so. 2) Glorantha. Like it or not, it was the major obstacle to getting other gamers into RQ2. The world was just so different from the other fantasy settings (LOTR rip offs) were like that most players just didn't get it. 3) The Avalon Hill Deal Part two of the "one-two combination" that took RQ out of contention for AD&D's throne. Wheel Glorantha kept the general gaming populace away from RQ, the AH deal alienated a lot of Chaosium fans. Some over the rule changes, and a lot more over the lack of new material. It was if someone had dammed up the creative stream. We went from getting 3 or 4 new RQ products a year to no new Glorantha products for, what, 5 years? 4) Stagnation RQ/BRP was a very innovative system when first introduced. IT introduced, or improved upon many new concepts, such as active defense, armor absorption, and skill based as opposed to class/level based. All good stuff in 1978. SO good that the basic system was used for a host of other RPGs. That was 30 years ago. Nothing has evolved in the RQ/BRP rules since RQ3. A shame, since the system was one that used to have constant and contimual innovation. Sometimes BPR shows it age when compared to more recent RPGs. For instance, since RQ/BRP grew out of SCA experience, the game never developed "non-lethal" damage. 5) No much support A lot of GMs like to buy and run prewritten adventures. If there are no adventures, then they don't run that game. This sort goes with the scene after the Avalon Hill Deal. prior to that, the game got great support. I love those old boxed set campaign packs. Once the AH deal went through, not only did the Campaign Packs stop, but even Chasoim stopped using that approach on thier own games. An adventure every two or three years doesn't cut it. If you play any Chasoium RPG other than CoC you don't have much in the way of prewritten stuff. 6) Perssonel changes. Back when Chasoium was in it'S heyday, and RQ/BRP products were coming out steadily, the material was mostly written by the same group of people. The same names pop up over and over again on the credits of various products. Now, very few of those people still work for Chaosium. Nothing against the new crew, but the orginal writers are a tough act to follow. 7) Call of Cthulhu CoC was one of the first horror RPGs, and the most successful. So successful that Chaosium seemed to focus all their efforts on it to the exclusion of practically everything else. I think that Chasoium has published more stuff for CoC that for all their other game systems combined. But, CoC is rather interdependent of the system (stats don't matter much when the PCs are usually the weakest thing in the scenario). And, players who are not interested in horror role-playing and or H.P. Lovecraft will just pass the game by, and that is what the majoirty of gamers are doing. 8) We lost that lovin' feelin' Back in the late 70s/early 80s, the RPG community was different. Game designers were players, and were more interested in exhanging ideas with each other, impressing other players and actually improving a game. Now, the gaming hobby has turned into a RPG industry, and become a bit more impersonal. Back in the early days it was more about ideas and fun. Now it is about product and profit. As a result, companies that can throw around more $$$ get better market share. Even back when RQ was popular it wasn't in the stores the way D&D was. 9) CCGs These things pretty much wiped out all the small to mdedium sized RPG companies, including AH, and did a number on other companies, such as Chasoium. That7s a major reason why BRP has been in RPG limbo for over a decade. Just my take on the subject.