soltakss

On 1/12/2019 at 9:37 AM, Minlister said:

Sorry for a slightly heretical question/suggestion:

As far as suggestions go, that is definitely not heretical.

On 1/12/2019 at 9:37 AM, Minlister said:

has anybody considered the possibility that the death inflicted to "Yelm" by Orlanth could have been a dismemberment ? In which case the "soul" of the sun god could have descended to Hell and his various body parts been dispersed by the violence of the event. Lingering energy in the various limbs could have resulted in local sun deities. The reascent at the Dawn would be the return of the "common soul" (the sun disk) of these various sun gods, whose relation would be in the way similar to the one between the various persons of the Trinity. 

Actually in a way, it would fit well with Ian's proposal, with Yelm resulting from the "stitching" of the formerly autonomous body parts!

That makes a lot of sense.

Traditionally, dismemberment is used to stop a Deity from reforming, or to stop reforming easily. Before Death came along, it could have been used to reduce a deity's power or to slow down a return. With the advent of Death, however, such a dismemberment means the deity cannot come back at all, which may not have been Orlanth's intention.

Putting Yelm back together via a series of HeroQuests is another useful idea that comes out of this.

On 1/12/2019 at 9:37 AM, Minlister said:

(Sorry if it isn't clear, English isn't my first language)

It was very clear, thanks.

21 hours ago, Minlister said:

I just recently discovered Glorantha thanks to 7Tigers' posts on a French RPG forum and I am absolutely enthralled !!

Wow!

Things can get a bit deep and heavy in Gloranthan discussions, but it sounds as though you already understand a lot. Welcome aboard!

23 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

Sure, but Greg was quite clear about his intent here, see my quote in the original article. Yelm emerged as a result of the cultural clash between three sun-worshipping cultures in the 1st Age: DH, Horse Nomads, Heortling. Now, it is possible that DH was far more than just Antirius i.e. different polities had their sun gods, but the recognition of Antirius at the dawn, and his absence from the Wall, suggests that he was the large figure on the wall later identified as Yelm, and therefore the main sun god.

From my point of view, the Cult of Yelm emerged as a result of the cultural clash between three sun-worshipping cultures in the 1st Age: DH, Horse Nomads, Heortling, not the deity Yelm. There's a big difference.

On 1/11/2019 at 1:45 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

That's not really a secret: it's stated rather plainly in the various books I've read. The God Time/Plane was created as a separate realm where the gods could relive their myths eternally, and Time/the Mortal Plane was created as a realm where gods could only act indirectly in order to avoid another Gods War (iirc).

From a gaming point of view, of course Glorantha has been constructed with the real World and God Plane separate, as you have mentioned.

However, from a Gloranthan point of view, the God Plane came first and the Real World is what is left over after Time began.

On 1/11/2019 at 1:45 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

Your comment could of course more specifically be that the events of the God Time are all constructed - and that would indeed be a pretty groundbreaking secret that would shake a lot of Gloranthans to the core (or be promptly ignored).

And would go against everything that has been developed for Glorantha.

2 hours ago, Thot said:

Do you want to write one? Because for a license, they need a licensee...

And this is the problem. Lots of people, apparently, want MW material but nobody is prepared to apply for a Licence.

22 hours ago, Joerg said:

Veering far from the original topic (though it looks like we're pretty much agreed on troll manufacturing), aren't Clay Mostali constructs, too? I had the impression that nilmergs, gremlins and gobblers used the same kind of flesh that was used on the Clay Mostali (which are acknowledged as tasty or at least intoxicating snacks). Not quite so sure about the Jolanti stone creatures - their stone might be more tasty than normal stone, but that's really comparing two brands of vegemite if you are not from Down Under.

Clay Mostali reproduce rather than being manufactured. Elder Secrets describes how they grind away with mortar and pestle before producing offspring.

I am not a fan of "All Mostali are contructs", that is fine for True Mostali, but not for Clay Mostali.

5 minutes ago, Ian Cooper said:

Yes, Greg was very clear that Elmal and Yelmalio are different gods.

And then he wasn't and then he was.

55 minutes ago, Corvantir said:

So Yelmalio is a part of Yelm more so than he is his son as we human intend it. But how can he thus be Lightfore as it is written in the Glorantha Book (page 102). That would also mean that Lightfore is a part of Yelm.   😣

Lightfore is probably a part of Yelm, just not the Sun Disc.

To be honest, I've never really cared much for Lightfore and don't know anything like enough about him to comment. Personally, I'd just ignore him until I need him.

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

7 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Yelmalio is the Cold Sun, the Winter Sun or the Mountain Sun, still the Sun Disc, but the one that manifests weakly. He is also Light Without Heat.

Yep. The Sun Disk is also Yelm. Who is the Sun Disk who rises and falls each day. The Bright Sun, the Imperial Sun, revived with Time to be guarantor of the Cosmic Compromise.

Of course, what would the God Learners make of Disk vs Disc? Surely some inner Gloranthan meaning there?

For me the dancers in Darkness are corrupted Nymphs rather than Vampires, they are Marsh Nymphs, so have some crossover between Water and Earth Nymphs, but have been corrupted by Delecti.

Also, Delecti isn't himself a Vampire, but can create and command Vampires, so he is probably a Hero of Vivamort without being a Vampire.

17 hours ago, Corvantir said:

On the other hand, I find it far more difficult to relate this interpretation with what is being told in the Glorantha Sourcebook about  the Sun Disk (page 100). If Elmal is associated with the Sun Disk, as Yelm is in Peloria, how can he be the same god as Yelmalio who as far as I know (and I know a lot less than many of you) is not related to the Sun Disk.

Yelmalio is the Cold Sun, the Winter Sun or the Mountain Sun, still the Sun Disc, but the one that manifests weakly. He is also Light Without Heat.

32 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Jason and I are planning to put one together soon. But we have a lot in our INBOX right now.

Work faster! Apparently, you only need 3 hours sleep at night to function.

53 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

Dont be shocked if it turns out Zzabur was "Orlanth" (the murderer) and Vadel was "Yelm" (the Namer aka the Discoverer).  And none of it Really happened the way any myths say it did.

I'll let you into a secret, but don't tell anyone else - It's all just made up, really!

57 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

Is Time a hard or a soft polytheism?

Well, in a description of the Dawning, it mentions that Time, with her 294 daughters, steps out. These clearly refer to the days of the Gloranthan Calendar and personifies Time as a Goddess.

29 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I forgot to mention this, but I'm inclined to see the whole "Nysalor-is-an-aspect-of-Yelm"-thing as being the inspiration of the Lunar process of Sevening. Nysalorean mystics might've propagated a sevening-form of illumination before they were repressed and persecuted, arguing that Nysalor was Yelm's Seventh Portion, and when the Seven Mothers came around, they utilized this info for their own purposes, somehow.

Personally, I think that the Red Goddess is another Aspect of Illumination, so Rashoran, Nysalor and Red Goddess are equal in their effect and transformation. The Red Goddess was freed by Nysalor when she met him on a HeroQuest, however, she has since moved Lunar Illumination along by quite a bit. In my opinion, Lunar Illuminates are Nysalor Illuminates but also have a lot more that they can do or have experienced.

I think that Nysalor did not teach that he was the Seventh Portion of Yelm's Soul, but the Lunars have recognised/discovered this and this has led to new facets of Illumination.

5 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Secondly, there is the issue of the various Lodril-analogues in the Entekosiad. I don't want to too far into this, but based on that text, it seems very much like the Hot Earth existed before the Celestial Fire - or at the very least, long before there was a Sun Disk, and certainly before the Sun Disk was stationary. I'm not going to go too far into the story of Brightface, since it was covered earlier, but, well, I think the orthodox Dara Happan story of three (technically four, I guess) brothers - one of whom debased himself in the Earth and therefore lost all right to rule, while another brother stayed in perfect distance between aloofness and grossness to rule - is seriously suspect.

There is a theory going around that Lodril is Aether Primolt's penis and that lava is his fiery seed. So similarly Lodril becomes Genert's penis and lava is his fiery seed.

The split between brothers originally had Lodril owning the surface and Yelm being given the lands below, but Yelm didn't like that and asked to be given something else. It ended up with Yelm being in the Underworld anyway, possibly because of the original division. Lodril burst forth into the Surface World.

5 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

In fact, not only that, but I'm seriously questioning whether some facet of the Hot Earth preceded Aether, or the Sky Dome in its entirety to begin with. Fire may have originally risen up rather than fall down.

Now, according to the God Learners, Fire/Sky is on top of the Earth. Presumably, Aether Primolt's fiery essence came from within the Earth (Ga) and rose to cover her. So, that mimics the Fire Within the Earth appearing on the surface.

5 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Lodril may be The One that Stayed Behind. But for political and religious reasons, the Dara Happans couldn't accept that. Too conspiratorial and out there? Maybe, but it's a notion worth considering, at least, imho. The God Learners seemed to believe that Sky/Fire came into being after Earth, although this might be them taking a Theyalan myth too literally, or applying alchemical principles to cosmology. (As a minor sidenote, a few people here have mentioned that Yelm become the second Emperor of the Universe/gloranthay/Cosmic Court after Aether (Primolt) - but do we know that? It seems a bit like we're taking the idea that Chief Sky God=Emperor for granted. As far as I can tell, none of Yelm's antecedents, were actually Emperors. There might be a difference in Theyalan and Pelorian viewpoints, though.) 

I think that Lodril has a place in the earth because of several things:

• Aether Primolt originally came from the Earth, so there is a concept of Fire Within the Earth anyway
• Lodril was given the Underworld as his realm, so belongs there as part of the division of the Cosmos
• Lodril, as the Sky Spear, thrust himself into the Earth and released his fiery lava against Krarsht
• Krarsht trapped Lodril within the Earth, in her web of lies

I'd be tempted to make the spell-draining a Vivamort spell, in the same way that Thanatari can access Runemagic from Severed Heads. That way, it's a cult effect not a special ability.

As most Gloranthan Vampires worship Vivamort anyway, it doesn't impact them but makes it nice and tidy.

20 hours ago, g33k said:

I think the Lunar notion of "Occlusion" is very relevant, too. 

To be honest, the whole of Lunar Illumination from Imperial Lunar Handbook 2 passed me by. I have tried to read it many times but my eyes glaze over and I lose interest every time.

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

Chaosium has no plans to bring out any new Magic World materials.

As there is a clear fan demand, why not make Magic World OGL, in the same way as Chaosium is making HeroQuest OGL?

That way, fans could make their own supplements without any work on Chaosium's part.

Not in Pendragon or Prince Valiant, but yes for RuneQuest, BRP and Revolution D100. The Merrie England line covers the reigns from Henry II to Henry III, including Richard I and John.

15 hours ago, MOB said:

The Morokanth are vegetarians. Their bodies are naturally suited to eating vegetable matter.

Nu-Glorantha, hmmm, MGDV.

6 hours ago, Byll said:

Where does RQG stand in the great and contentious boomerang - blowpipe controversy?

I forgot that Ostrich Riders use a fancy boomerang. From memory, it was shaped a bit like a Movement Rune, wasn't it?

4 hours ago, womble said:

How good is ostrich night vision compared to other herd beasts? Cos trying to sneak up in the daylight to get into blowpipe range isn't going to be practicable very often on such a tall bird.

You know, they might, perhaps, get off the Ostrich while sneaking up to use a blowpipe.

Accumulation of hits causes wounds to pass their thresholds and the associated effects.

6 hours ago, daskindt said:

There’s no acceptance or acknowledgement that Elmal and Yelmalio are the same god. We’re told quite clearly that Yelmalio is “neither Yelm nor Elmal.”

What I got from the text was that Lunar Magicians and Monrogh lantern performed local HeroQuests to prove something to those people. So, the Lunars proved to Tribal priests that Elmal was the son of Yelm and Monrogh Lantern, High Priest of the cult in Sartar, proved that he worshipped Yelmalio. As local HeroQuests, they don't always have a global effect, but they could have.

From my point of view, such local HeroQuests have the result of creating cult variants, so some Elmali in Dragon Pass know that Elmal is the son of Yelm and the Yelmalians in Dragon Pass know that they worship Yelmalio, who is the son of Yelm.

On a bit of a tangent, I found the Sorcery spells a bit generic at first, then I realised that the richness of Runemagic and Spirit Magic is because we have cults described. If we only had the common spells, then they would seem a bit generic. So, I am now waiting for Malkioni supplements, despite having little interest in Glorantha's West, just for the spells and an advanced treatment of Sorcery.

20 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

It's a good thing none of the central Genertelan religions have an inquisition, given the various heresies expressed here!

Derak the Dark Troll, one of our RQ2 PCs, was an Illuminated Dark Troll, best friends with Cragspider and a right pain in the backside. As he was a Death lord with some unusual friends, the Lord General of Death called him in for a meeting and produced a Matrix of Sense Chaos and and a Matrix of Sense law and said he was going to test Derak and kill him if things went badly. He rolled for Sense Chaos - 100 and a fizzle, then rolled for Sense Law - 100 and a fizzle, as both Matrices were proven to be faulty, he decided that Derak had passed the test and made him Lord Inquisitor of Death, heading up investigations into suspected illuminates in Zorak Zoran. Needless to say, all his enemies were found to be Illuminated and none of his friends.

On a related point, one of the PCs always secretly wanted to be Illuminated, but could never make the roll, no matter what he did. After years and years of gaming, he succeeded and went to brag to the other PCs, only to find that every single one of them had been Illuminated for years.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I could imagine someone starting off to "prove" they descended from a local tribal ancestor/culture hero, and then maybe heroquesting to explore more "prestigious" descents as they rise in power and become in need of more elevated heritage for political legitimacy.

One of the PCs in an old Balazar Campaign did exactly that. He proved that he was descended from Balazar, then proved that Balazar was a follower of Yelm, thus proving that he could join the cult of Yelm, allowing him to become High King of Balazar, and Master of the Red Emperor's Stool, which is another story entirely.