Joerg

Vingkot was immolated, but that was in order to rid himself of the ailing but immortal body that was unable to recover from the Chaos wound he had received at the Battle of Stormfall. It was part of his apotheosis, but may have set the trend for his successors (possibly hoping for a similar transition into the Storm Realm). Other Orlanthi may have retained other practices. None of the other gods of the Storm Pantheon received anything like a burial (unless you count the Underworld dismemberment of Umath at the hands and presumably jaws of Shadzor-Alkor).

In the time of King Heort, separating the Living from the Dead was the major task to get the Silver Age started. Having the Dead cremated may have allowed for a clearer distinction than body burials. With Vingkot as the example, male cremations may have become the standard (although the five husband-founders from outside of the Vingkotlings may have brought their own rites, possibly including necrophagy for the descendants of Porscriptor the Cannibal).

Cremation results in burnt remains, with major bones often surviving the pyre (in a brittle state) when cremated properly, and possibly only medium-rare in case of mass burnings with limited access to fuel.

In a respectful cremation, the dead body is laid out in state, with his grave goods which are supposed to undergo the same transformation/transition as the body, to be magically at hand in the afterlife. In case of rich burials, not all grave goods may fit onto the bier, and may have been marked for their afterlife journey in another way.

One might need to consider the non-modern concepts of personal property among the Orlanthi when it comes to providing grave goods, though - these might include items or at least symbols enabling an everyday afterlife in the Otherworld, but more likely the deceased will receive a preparation for the afterlife heroquest, with support items like you give to a living heroquester about to penetrate the veil. Much of the property of the deceased will be property belonging to the bloodline rather than the person, with part of that property having been temporarily bestowed by the clan (or some higher authority), like much of the means of primary production.

14 hours ago, g33k said:

When you cite Norway & the Aleutians here, are you talking about the physical landscape?
Or something more human-centric?

Jeff was actively distancing himself from such comparisons (for Ygg's islands, not the Three-Step Islands) and any such comparisons.

The islands off Washington or British Columbia are probably what we need to look for if we want real world comparisons at all. Or possibly off the San Francisco Bay area.

When I suggested the Vesteralen all those years back then I had just returned to Germany from northern Norway. I personally drew on such comparisons after having lived inland of the Lofoten and Vesteralen for a bit, finding a lot of local historical detail on surviving on a cold but reliably liquid sea quite inspiring - especially the pre-Viking elements of local history and pre-history, but also notes on pre-modern everyday life as fishermen and whalers before, during and after the Viking era, including the culture of the coastal "Finns" (Saami).

The Wolf Pirates started out as Yggite northmen leaving the service of the Vadeli, and those on Gothalos and Ginorth may retain more of that heritage than those who occupy the Threestep Isles.

The role of Yggite women hasn't been explored much outside of depictions of female wolf pirates (other than Gunda). Possibly largely irrelevant for the Three-Step Isles, YGWV.

A majority of the non-enspirited Jolanti abducted by Gonn Orta followed Thog in his invasion of Pavis. They ended up as material for the Wall, creating the smooth outer ring by merging with the slabs planted there by Paragua and his followers.

It is unknown whether the Nidan Council of Nine still has giant Jolanti, or whether they can produce new ones.

The Faceless Statue was exceptional in size compared to the Nidan abductees. It doesn't seem like the Greatway Mostali retained the magics to awaken it, but Pavis succeeded with the added magical punch of the EWF accumulation of draconic magics.

Having walked in Cyrilius Harmonius's sandals, part of the Pavis cult was actively courting the Seven Mothers cult as another associate in the city array. Survival in the Rubble taught them to adopt whichever tools, foods and magics might help them to continue their existance, and possibly reinstate their former glory.

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I don't think there ever was any blood sacrifices in Heortland.

Of sacrificial beasts, most certainly. Of humans (or other sentients), unlikely outside of Chaotic cults such as Krarsht or Bagog.

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The merchants will be Issaries as they have the skill in communication and creating neutral market grounds. And the merchants will also likely have Lhankor Mhy scribes with them.

Kings and warlords may well have a semi-nomadic routine to overseeing their holdings, traveling in state with lots of  received gifts, collected tax, and gifts to their more loyal followers.

Diplomacy usually is carried by the exchange of valuable gifts (of the kind Biturian Varosh carries at the start of his narrative).

The Malkioni make little distinction between those who trade and those who rule and organize. For the Orlanthi, the role model of the king is less about diplomacy and a lot more about martial and/or magical prowess (something the Malkioni have outsourced to other castes).

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Aeolians aren't a ruling class - they tend to be concentrated in the Esvular cities and towns down south. So Heortlings would not be sending tribute to them, but to the temples and clan chiefs. 

Aeolian talars do seem to control traditional chieftains and Orlanthi peasants in Esvular in terms of tax flow.

Aeolian farmers seem to cluster in Esvular or Bandori lands, around their cities, as do Aeolian fisherfolk. Aeolian craftsfolk (of the Worker caste) may have spread throughout Kethaela, with a large community just outside of Nochet (where they appear to control the brick-making?). They do seem to rake in more primary production from outside of their group than other populations in Kethaela, which might make them look as some form of gentry.

15 minutes ago, Cassius said:

Could we add to this list brandys, liquors and other fruit alcohols, made from apples (like Calvados), pears, plums, etc.? Do distillation techniques exist in this part of the world? At first glance, it seems a Mostali thing.

In our world, distillation (e.g. of pitch) as a human technology is older than application of yeast to sugary stuff. Distillation of alcohol requires a different technique for cooling the vapors and arrived delayed, probably unavailable in any of the local Bronze Ages except maybe in ancient China.

Glorantha is a postapocalyptic world with many an anachronistic technology or innovation available (such as alphabetic scripts, triremes, or metal coinage, all unknown from archaeological finds in our world's local Bronze Ages even though some of our world's mythical texts might be interpreted as the ancients having had similar tech.

Quicksilver mostali have distillation down pat, and the ones in Dragon Pass even hire out the Alchemical Transformer. The Second Council theninherited Feldichi magical technology, some of which may have survived into the EWF era (or re-discovered).

There is also the possibility of using selective freezing to concentrate alcohol. Dragon Pass winters certainly get cold enough for making Apple Jack.

Whether canonical or just YGWV, feel free to add some varieties of liquor to your games. I wouldn't make it a wide-spread technology as the equipment (glassware or metal tubing for capturing and condensating the vapors) would be quite costly. Gustbran and/or Caladra and Aurelion are likely to be patrons of some of that.

14 hours ago, JonathanQuaife said:

Can we get to see this in some form? It sounds excellent!

Apart from the niche publication in the (mostly non-Gloranthan) scenario book for the German edition of HQ2, extensive notes exist, but with this morning's (mechanical) computer crash, I either have to wish for data recovery or write it again from scratch. And I most definitely need an editor.

The original version is set in 1619 or 1620, with a trip through the Lunar camp besieging Whitewall as the start of the travel entcounters. While that is not essential, I planned to make good use of world politics going on as backdrop for a road trip.

In order to remain on topic, the scenario has two political portions. The protagonists are supposed to be (married to) descendants of the priestess (through female descent, conforming Esrolian legitimacy), spread out over numerous clans and even tribes in Sartar, and maintain her wishes against her patrilineal descendants of her home clan.

In Nochet, they find out that their (great-) grandmother was from a branch lineage inside the ruling Enfranchised House in Nochet, who had fled her house after losing an important heiress she was supposed to chaperone to the Puppeteers. Dramas were written around the parents of said heiress. Having left in disgrace and damaging the main lineage, the current mistress of the House is disinclined to allow her stray kinswoman to join her ancestors in the family complex (although the ancestors at least of the side line, and from way earlier, would support her if a trial of ancestors would be held). Still, the will of a Grandmother might override even ancestral wishes (for as long as she remains in power).

I may have crammed too much historical detail into the backstory, but provided the players run with it and acquire some of the information during play they may develop personal passions towards a number of very influential people in Sartar, the Lunar Empire and Esrolia.

14 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Though I appreciate there's a boatload of room for anyone's Glorantha to vary with this, and there is something poetic about the players knowing that sorcery is bleeding the magic from the world, knowing what Greg thought Glorantha turned into.

Magic points used in Sorcery and Spirit Magic or for boosting Rune spells all go the same way. Most sorcery makes do without Tapping, using a variant of worship which cuts out the rune deities to empower "parish" wizards, or else milks bound spirits like everybody else does, only in larger amounts.

Given the presence of hot mineral springs in the chain, I would imagine that these would be used for long-term stewing, lowering earthware pots (possibly unglazed) into the springs.

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Any what happens to those magic points once spent? Are they meaningfully different to magic points granted by a god, or a spirit, which are similarly spent?

Above Dayzatar's realm there is the Source, a spring of energies that runs through runic channels (which includes deities and spirits) and disperses into the world. In the Surface world, these energies can be accumulated and spent by mortals (and spirits and demigods inhabiting those places). The magic put into spells as well as any not accumulated magic percolates into the Underworld where it ultimately dissipates into the Void.

Underworld magics can use some of that "snow" coming down and use the potential vs. some deeper underworld, but most human magic like Malkioni sorcery requires a higher form of magic (from the source) to be brought down into the Surface World levels.

Tapping takes some of this Source quality (and possibly the ability to accumulate such source energies) and turns that into short term magical energy which then can power spells if used up within the duration of the passive "holding" component of the Tap spell after the active extraction/transformation of energies. (IMG sorcery spells are the equivalent of spirits - magical entities with limited purpose and without (much) identity other than the mind-space associations of the sorcerer who constructed them.)

The passive component of the Tap spell acts like a temporary magic point matrix for the caster, a matrix that can only be emptied once the active phase of the Tapping ended and whose capacity is limited by the intensity allotted to that.

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Perhaps the difference is they are untethered from their source, and spiral off into the Void (to return as Creation raining down? Who knows the ecology of Void vs Creation).

There are a few non-sorcerous magics which also allow a temporary build-up of magical energy, like the Absorption rune spell which strips weaker incoming spells of their purpose, storing or rather transferring them to the caster of the spell.

Magic point matrices or dead crystals may conserve magic points donated to them indeterminately.

Magic point or POW transfer to a wyter is a common occurrance, with the wyter priest able to command these points to power spells they (or the wyter) know.

Collecting POW donations for enchantments are a rules possibility almost as toxic as Tapping.

5 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

  Hide contents

For those who still doubt the existence of Gloranthan microorganisms: Word of Jeff would seem to be that Gloranthans had a word for prokaryotes.

Yes: Darkness.

Fouling is a Darkness process, release of foul egg aroma included. Less smelly forms of anaerobic digestion (and digestion in general), too.

I have a (German language) HQ mini-campaign about a 90 years old Asrelia priestess asking on her deathbed to be interred in her family crypt in the Nochet Necropolis (aka Antones Estates), against the wish of her clanfolk for whom she had been the dominant earth priestess. Part of the campaign is getting the green light for her and her requested grave goods to be let go, part is getting her there, and the last part is to get her kin to allow her burial, or failing that, breaking and interring. Plus there is an old (Nontrayan) nemesis of hers waiting to take revenge.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Are Wolf Pirates the Sea People of the Bronze Age Collapse for Glorantha?

Optically, yes. The illustrations of Wolf Pirates have inexplicably copied Medinet Habu uniforms without offering any Gloranthan region where people in that dress would be at home, rather different from Medinet Habu or the treatment of neighboring traditional dress on the Gods Wall. Possibly in a desperate attempt to make things (Mediterranean) Bronze Age when everything on the seas but the main metal cries Roman Iron age.

In practice, the Closing was doing that catasstrophic interruption of international trade, and following the Opening, the Waertagi are going interrupt open sea traffic, aiming to re-instate their pre-God Learner monopoly and suppression of sea exploration.

There is a practical solution: rename whatever you think sounds stupid. The name occurs exactly once, you can use corflu and nobody would have noticed it, at least notyet nochet. Others may have had their problems with mangled latin, like the evil midwife of the devil who is named something like "apple girl" rather than "bad one".

There is also Ludovic Chabant's scenario Bog Struggles on the Jonstown Compendium. 

1 hour ago, davecake said:

I think exerting undue influence on the Seven Mothers cult, and other Lunar religions, is one of the most popular hobbies among the Lunar upper classes. 

While I agree about this statement, the various opposing interest groups tend to create some balance of influence which can only be tipped by well-aimed darts.

11 hours ago, Ageha said:

Southern Peloria is, per the Guide to Glorantha, explicitly described as being predominantly populated by Orlanthi peoples with an Orlanthi culture. 

If it was a blend, as you are saying, it would not be described like that. It would then be described as different, unique, culture.

It is not.

The guide is explicitly clear on this. Southern Peloria is simply outright stated to be Orlanthi.

And the Orlanthi are of course (in)famous for being a hybrid culture with acculturation of foreign influences, like adopting an entire Water Tribe (the Helerings) into the Vingkotling kingdom, and more to the point the sun marriage with the descendants of Yamsur and Hyalor. Saird is an ancient Earth culture with Solar and Storm husband protectors and various beast totems, including lions, dogs, bears, raccoons, goats and rams, not to mention the continuum of water bird ancestor worship. Urban Saird follows the Dara Happan model, not some God Learner model that only indirectly was acculturated via the Bright Empire.

Riverine Saird follows the weeder ways, including cultivation or at least harvest of various forms of rice. Lowland Saird and Tarsh has "dry farming" aided by irrigation as rainfall north of the Rockwoods is rather limited. While the Taming of Sshorg(a) River may be explained by the Dragonspine falling across its course, there is also an interpretation of irrigation doing the trick, and Orlanth might merely take the credit from the Imperial imposition of irrigation of the Oslir (and its tributaries).

Also: Aren't Orlanthi living under a Dara Happan style urban system or the Sun Dome Temple theocacies the very definition of hegemony you are demanding?

"The Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" marks the end of Germanic independence from Roman imperial hegemony, bringing Germania Magna into the fold of Roman style legislation and jurisdiction (rather than the quaint continuation of Old Germanic tribal laws in Iceland and Anglo-Saxon territories). Same thing in Saird.

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Orlanth is happiest when his wife is dead

She is not dead, she is sleeping. Probably snoring gently, but at least she stopped nagging him.

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

his cold winds are blowing in the dark of winter/storm season, 

Not Orlanth. He is just full of hot air. Maybe under pressure - we all know how gas cools down when leaving through a nozzel - but cold is not really a feature of Orlanth. His sister Inora got all of that.

Guardian and guarded object may have been just masks of the same entity.

The idea of Empire with benevolent (?) Yelmic overseers has been exported from Dara Happa through the Bright Empire.

In the Bright Empire, Hrelar Amali was the seat of Holy Estorex, a Dara Happan missionary who greatly influenced the cult of Ehilm and its role in subsequent Malkionized nobility (e.g. Gerlant's lineage through Nralar) and which may have provided the role model for Safelstran city states. There are Dara Happan-style overseers in all of Old Carmania and along the Janube.

Urban and riverine Saird has Dara Happan culture blended with the Ernaldan/Orlanthi society.

Yelmic culture, bureaucracy and literacy are as wide-spread. Malkioni talar administration might have been a counter-culture, but at least Seshnela and thereby the God Learner empire was infected by Yelmic notions of administration.

Pelorian worship bows to the administration of Yelmic (or Idovanic) administration, too. If you visit a Lodrili or Weeder rite, there will be imperial priesthood overseeing the rites. The Yelmalio cult north of Kero Fin probably has them, too.

I am (still) in the process of transcribing episode 29 of the God Learners podcast, and we had a lively discussion about the prevalence of imperial education in the Provinces. Out soon.

5 hours ago, davecake said:

A diaspora is a spread beyond the homeland. Traditional Mostali are in their homelands - Nida, Greatway, Slon. But most of the Mostali you are likely to properly interact with - at Dwarf Run, the Flintnail dwarves of Pavis, etc - are at least heretics, often apostate, and far from a true dwarven homeland. You could consider they are the diaspora. 

The Mostali homeland used to be Magnetic Mountain and/or the Spike. With Jrustela resettled and Slon about to be put back into its place just south of the ruins of Magnetic Mountain (aka Curustus), the dwarfs are working at repairing their homeland. The Somelz initiative is the next step towards that goal. Ultimately, I guess they will want to regrow the Spike, channeling a lot of Chaos through the Chaosium.

But basically, both the Decamonies are as much exile communities as are the bigger heretic ones (Greatway, Diamond Mountain, Mari).

Kargan Tor deserting his post on the Spike and Eurmal and Vivamort taking Death from Subere's Vault might be the same thing, framed differently.

4 hours ago, davecake said:

Once, apparently the empire distributed potato read through the Seven Mothers temples. Now, they distribute corn bread. Clearly, a policy changed, and in the time of Hon-Eel or after.

Corn is the major crop in the Eel-ariash lands (Oronin, formerly Doblian, Oraya, Tarsh), more so than rice (another Blue Moon adjacent crop, at least in Melib), and presumably more so than wheat and barley.

4 hours ago, davecake said:

On 12/7/2023 at 1:10 PM, Nick Brooke said:

I’m not sure you grok what a grain goddess does. They don’t diversify, or rotate crops. They are their grain.

As Hon-Eel is the grain goddess of Maize, this change literally makes Hon-Eel greater. So we have a motive. The red goddess incarnate displaces the mysterious schemes of her blue former self. One of such complexities are the schemes of the highest Lunar theological conspiracies made. Or perhaps the blue moon has voluntarily withdrawn one of her gifts from Peloria now that it is no longer needed, and her sister has cooperated to allow it to happen.

 

Does this have implications on the relationship between the Eel-ariash (and their side lines like the Lunar Tarshite royals) and the Blue Moon?

I don't think that any attempt to make the Lunar Empire a monolithical entity with one true doctrine and everybody happily following suit is going to work. Hon-eel is not one of the Mothers, who were based on Blue Moon Plateau-adjacent Rindliddi. How much influence could her cult or the political machinations of her descendents have exerted on the Seven Mothers cult?

What is the Carmanian stance on this (with Yolanela playing a key role in the local Teelo Norri cult)?

And did the Eel-ariash provide any of the masks between Takenegi reborn and Argenteus, or is Phargentes the Younger their one big bid?

3 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Why would they infect them and what would the infection do to the potato, reduce growth or spoil them in some way? Wouldn't hindering growth be against the norms for an elf?

Funghi and molds often consume their host organisms, whether those hosts are alive or already dead. There are a few specimen who form a symbiotic relationship with their host organisms instead, like mycorhyzomes providing the root network of trees with water in exchange for sugary sap, but those are in the minority.

There are parasitic plants (mistletoes) or murderus plants (ficus) that prey on or kill their host organisms, too. In addition, there is a chemical warfare going on in forest soils, as well as the race for the most sunlight or ground water, resulting in plants genociding other plants. The Plant Kingdom is anything but peaceful.

Funghi are plants of Darkness, which means that consuming others or other stuff is part of their nature.

My intention remains to use the (funghal disease) potato blight (which depopulated Ireland during the great famine when coupled to genocidal decisions by the government) as the excuse why so few people successfully grow these tubers, with only moonglow (of either color) counteracting this fungal infection. As a result, we get sacred shrine gardens with assorted moonrock applications protecting the Lunar Tuber from that blight, providing the Goddess's body for Communion with the congregation in the shape of potato bread, doled out by the Teelo Norri cult/7M-subcult. That addresses Jeff's objection against the presence of another "superfood" when the Hon-eel cult successfully re-introduced maize (with its blood rites) as a nutritional game changer. Yes, the sacred Teelo Norri potato bread is highly nutritious. It also requires a comparatively scarce resource and may provide illumination and/or madness.

A keyword like that can be a useful shorthand, although I would still allow modifiers for specialist knowledge (e.g. rowing for that Viking), demerits for rare specialist skils (like composing skaldic verse) and off-brand abilities (e.g. lock-picking). If the character is anything more than a mook to mow down, they should have some distinction.

Various levels of Viking proficiencies were what I pulled out of that "sample Vikings" leaflet in the RQ3 Vikings box, a list which served me well outside the immediate setting, too.

As a GM I don't tend to over-prepare, so I ad-lib opposition more often than I provide well-prepared opponents.  Providing some options for whimsy even with a mook tends to make encounters more memorable.