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Everything posted by Joerg

  1. The mention for cattle in Jolar is an isolated mention on p.541, possibly a direct carry-over from the RQ3 short world description in the DeLuxe-Box or the Glorantha Bestiary that survived proof-reading. Yes, Umathela does sustain cattle-herding. There are elands in Jolar and Tarien, tanuku (milk antelopes) everywhere south of the Fense mountains, and wildebeest in Jolar only. The latter may be confused with cattle, and follow migratory patterns between Jolar and Laskal, entering the area of the former Greenwood of Jolar. All of these beasts are mentioned for the Fiwan, and domestication of the tanuku is only mentioned in the culture description, not in the regional description. The timing of the pastoralists that would become the Hill Barbarians is an issue. I'm aware that we are talking Godtime, and sequence is tricky, but when did these migrations start? What is the Dara Happan frame for the reigns of Daxdarius and Gartemirus?
  2. During his stint in Mexico, Greg (initially reluctantly) reconnected with the Catholic church as the local forms of shamanism in Oaxaca were firmly joined with Catholic rites according to his web diary of that time. Shamans don't appear to have a problem with monotheistic religions and their entities as a subset of their spiritual contacts.
  3. The Pelorian languages are all inter-related, and BusEnari and BusErian both appear on the Gods Wall (at least according to Plentonius' interpretation). I rather see a broad Downland migration of various pastoralist groups, including the Andam Horde and the Bisosae, from the south. Prior to the Nidan uprising, there was just a hill range acting as the watershed between Ralios and Fronela, easy to cross for the herds. I would like to note that "Biso" and "Busi" may just be flections of the same stem, with Busi possibly the possessive/objective form, and Biso the active one. Tadenit was the writing founder, Kachast the speaking one (the God of the Silver Feet, really). I am willing to make Zzabur or at least the zzaburi the carriers of an alphabetic script into central Genertela. He certainly inherited the flensing knife of Tadenit. Our real world Bronze Age had literacy only in the shape of hieroglyphs reduced to a syllabary, with the alphabetic script emerging from the illiterate era of the Bronze Age collapse. Along the Oslir River, we have three alphabetic scripts Cat-scratchsin, do-scratching, and Dara Happan. Prior to the Dara Happan system we have Pelorian glyphs which appear to have evey characteristic of a syllabary. (From what we know about these three scripts, all of them include symbols for vowels, unlike the original semitic scripts, an adaptation which may have been made by the Greeks or the Lesbos folk (from whom the Etruscans appear to have descended). Basically, Zator, the sorcerer of the Planetary Sons, becomes unseen (Invisible) and makes the stars emerge. Prior to this, all the celestial folk were obscured by the Sun Dome. Zator and Zzabur don't really have the same linguistic source, but one could still be a different people's misunderstood loan word for the other. Prior to Zator releasing the stars from imprisonment behind the Sun Dome, there were no stars visible in the sky, although possibly Nestentos already was on the rise. You'd have to pass from Raibanth's Footstool up to Yuthubars, and then exit beyond the Sky Dome, or alternatively enter Senthoros to look through it. Sacrifice can be the dedication of a (reusable) item to the ritual activity, removing it temporarily from the available tools. In the time of the painters, the taking of the food from the slain prey would allow the painters to dedicate some of the stuff taken to the higher powers they were aware of. Yes, the "Pentans" really appear to be Nivorah exiles in Zarkos. (The Arcos btw. appears the only of the three rivers of Peloria who entered the land uphill, unlike the Porals or Oslira.) The Starlight Wanderers were pedestrians or at best charioteers. The Pillar of Truth appears to be a feature of Senthoros, the far eastern or eastern above city of Zaytenaras, one of the ten planetary sons who is cognate of Dayzatar as planet. Zaytenaras also bears the Truth rue, unlike Zator/Buserian. I think this is entirely on topic - Lhankor Mhy is after all the nerd among the Orlanthi deities, and esoteric research is what his heroes do. Somaria (Esus) might be sufficiently west already. But yes, the introduction of cattle should have come with the arrival of the pastoralist hill barbarian ancestors (including the Bisosae). But then, according to the Guide Murharzarm's Empire (and the creation of the Dara Happan humans) occurred some time after Umath's birth. It also coincides with the arrival of the Oslir River from the south (as the continuation of the Sshorg/Aroka invasion of the land by the rivers). The pastoralist Buserian would have been quite similar to the Praxian Waha. This lack of normal herd beasts was one reason why I speculated that the broos in the nargan needed some time of adaptation if they wanted to breed with anything other than their (quite dangerous) Doraddi foes. Baraku's/Desero's horde suffered from the same herd famine that the Six-Legged Empire did - no typical grasses or grains thrive in the Veldt. The herd beasts there are really more like browsers than they are grazers.
  4. Perfection is the foe of adequate. Just like @soltakss I think that there is a space for a wild sage or a sword sage overlapping with a Destor explorer, a warleader, or even the prince of a federation. Read up on Kong Sverre of Norway, the guy who created the Birkebeiner hero path that nowadays serves as a long distance skiing race. And in the end, the adventurer remains a human, even if he manages to attain rune level. And should he move into demigod or ascension territory, then he'll have to depart from the well-trodden paths of his deity anyway.
  5. No problem there. You don't have to approach either via Change/Mobility or Stasis, there is Storm for Orlanth, and Truth for LM, and you can be strong in both. Apparently, not even great Lhankor Mhy himself can clearly say whether his father is Acos or the Cosmic Mountain.
  6. The entry in the Guide (p.325, p.327) describes the castle. It probably appeared at the emergence of Lake Oronin from the explosion of Mt. Turos, or built by what remains of the volcanic god's heat at the command of the blue invader. This could be more or less a repeat of the magics employed to creat the Brass Citadel of Sogolotha Mambrola.
  7. Oh my, what a hornet's nest to stir up... The many identities of Tadenit... Not being privy to the text of GaGoG and its revelations on LM, Buserian and IO, as a long-time handler of sages there appears to be lots of fusion going on with the local sage cults. It is almost as if the invention of any kind of script summons the memetic sage entity into the inventor, absorbing his (its?) previous existance into the eternal librarian. He was born to Orenoar under the influence of Acos or the Spike (personified as Mostal). The preserver of Truth. His whereabouts in the Golden Age are unclear. Lhankor Mhy was available as the Scribe of Nochet, and as the data repository for young Orlanth when he slew Sh'Harkarzeel at the feet of his mother. Buserian on the other hand is a Dara Happan deity. The Gods Wall commentary associates him with the Z-rune overseer of Abgammon (city of the near east in the Murharzarmic Percect Empire) (Zator in the Copper Tablets) and names him a celestial son of Yelm. The entity actually bearing the Truth Rune (Y) is identified as Zaytenaras, an expression of Dayzatar and then identified as a portion of Sedenya. The Z rune appears to stand for sorcery in the Hero Wars RPG/HeroQuest1 era of rune proliferation of Greg's writings from which the Gods Wall symbols result, too. My first contact with the Gods Wall was in the Dara Happan Book of Emperors, an early version of the Fortunate Succession of the Stafford Library sold at Convulsion (I think 1994), before the Carmanian parts got expanded in later editions and the Gods Wall was moved into the Glorious ReAscent. (Note that the Shargash rune bears an uncanny similarity to the Spike's Law rune...) Linguistically, and from the job description, Buserian is the Sacrificer of Bulls - compare Busenari, the cow goddess. Busi would be the Dara Happan/Pelorian term for bovines/cattle. But there were quite likely no cattle in Murharzarm's empire. Much like the EWF no longer had regular cattle or sheep in the heartlands of the dragon dream, the basic domestic beast of Murharzarm's original Dara Happa were (likely feathered) Gazzam. It isn't clear whether there was sacrifice or butchering of beasts, either. The inthronisation of Anaxial was accompanied by sacrifices of cattle and lions, though. But in the end, Buserian was the (ritual) butcher of Dara Happa when animal sacrifice and meat became part of the culture. This later gets overseen by the Enverinus burners of sacrifices. After Argentium Thri'ile, the Buserian cult may have adopted the ways of Waha from those Praxian nomads who chose to stay in Kostaddi, Darjiin, and Sylila. (Using the sixth-wane satrapy borders as geographical rather than cultural descriptors). The butcher portion of the cult may still be important in Buserian. I don't think that the Orlanthi Lhankor Mhy cults have half as much butchery/sacrificer elements as the Buserian cult. The Planetary Son of the East is Zator, and he is the celestial son who calls out the stars from the Pit (aka Stormgate). This action may be behind the Buserian Star Lore (e.g. per p.646 in the Guide). Pillar Lore, the complete celestial lore now kept in Yuthuppa (a city founded only after the Flood). The original city of the Pillar would have been the Celestial Court of the Spike, or perhaps Abgammon or Senthoros. IMO Zator is the chronicler and probably author/master of Celestial Lore, the origin of the stars. He disappears into the Pit, never to be seen again, and thus becomes the Invisible God of the Dara Happans. As IMO Buserian is his much later incarnation/aspect, of the flood era. Buserian brings the plans for Anaxial's Ark from Senthoros, not Abgammon. Buserian appears at the end of the wife contest myth as the third-born of Yelm and Dendara, younger sibling of Shargash and Murharzarm. I wonder how much rational decision was behind the color scheme that the GM screen color version of the Gods Wall shows was dictated to the artist. Judging from Jeff's previous record at art direction and the results e.g. for the overseers, quite a bit. The figure 1.3, identified as Buserian by Plentonius (and apparently never contested) wears a golden hat with a white rim, a gold-hemmed red coat (toga?) over a gold-hemmed white skirt, and golden boots. Yes - in RQG they have rune magic to read the history of an object (Knowledge), or of a place (Reconstruction), for a (random? informed?) real-time equivalent time. The time limits for Reconstruction are a lot clearer than those for Knowledge. It is no worse mash-up than Alkor, Shargash, Tolat, Jagrekriand, Vorthan, and the identity is possibly better expressed as the area of a Venn-diagram than a "nameless deity". The core essence/being of the God of Knowledge being a meme feels right to me. Lhankor Mhy of Kethaela is definitely lacking in Star Lore compared to Buserian, or even Zzabur. In Saird, the Star Lore of the Grey Sages may be somewhat better. How did the God Learners learn enough about Buserian for them to have enough data for an identity test with Lhankor Mhy? Exploration of Kethaela and the lands beyond (Peloria) originated from Slontos, which established the Lhankor Mhy city of Lylket on the western shore of the Creek-Stream River estuary into the Choralinthor Bay. The Lylket library became their operative center for Storm Barbarian lore, but they lost the original site in 907 when Shadow Plateau trolls overran the city emerging from secret tunnels connecting its rocky outcrop with the mighty Plateau and the Basements of the Obsidian Palace. There appears to have been a continuation of the Lylket text collection, as some of the troll texts collected by Minaryth Purple bear the Lylket imprint. Possibly in the Nochet library? Possibly in some recesses of the Obsidian Palace before it was smashed apart by the death throes of the Lead Serpent? The Lylket Lhankor Mhy librarians may have had their RuneQuest Sight awakened, but they operated from the Shadowlands, and already operating in the EWF beyond was fraught with risk of memetic corruption. And their specialty was trolls, not the sky. There always was Nochet. But Dark Esrolia wasn't a trusted ally by either the EWF or Slontos. There are reports of "God Learner" activities as early as Vistikos Left-eye's excommunication and pursuit of the Waltzing and Hunting bands which led to the EWF, and the leaking of Drolgard's secret has been blamed on God Learners, too. But who were these Malkioni interfering with Theyalan knowledge? IMO they were from Slontos. Their best access to Dara Happan lore would probably have been under the Sun Dragon Emperor - while the EWF control meant they were unable to alter the myths of Dara Happa, at least a passport into the EWF would give them access to the EWF-conquered libraries and librarians. Dragon influence in Dara Happa would have been moderate. Saird is of course the interface between the Orlanthi Lhankor Mhy knowledge and Dara Happan Buserian knowledge, and probably has been already prior to the EWF. There's also the City of 10,000 Magicians as a possible place for synthesizing the librarian-sorcerer deities. There is an Otherworld library there, though. And the concept of the Lhankor Mhy overcult might be similar to the concept of Sedenya. Irrippi Ontor may have been of Carmanian origin, like Yanafal, or from any of the other previously conquered territories of Bisodashan's empire. That gives him another access at Theyalan-style Lhankor Mhy, as that cult didn't stop spreading across the Bright Empire when the cult of Orlanth was suppressed. Carmania or the Pelanda that came before may be the place where Buserian and Lhankor Mhy knowledge were interwoven, if Saird wasn't. Alakoring removed EWF influences from the Pelorian Orlanthi. They joined the anti-EWF alliance after their oppressor Isgangdrang had been slain in Aggar. There may have been an active conversion of Lhankor Mhy libraries into Buserian ones in the repeated purges of Orlanthi (or draconic Orlanthi) footprints in Peloria. Prior to Syrantir's conquests in Pelanda, that place had Yelmic overseers and bureaucrats even under local dynasties. Buserian makes sense in Saird and Carmania, too. While Carmania has its own zzaburi (courtesy of Syranthir), the anti-EWF merger under Nadar the Avenger's daughter and Sarenesh would have brought a new wave of Dara Happan bureaucrats all over non-draconic Peloria. At some point, "scribe" became synonymous with "Buseri", as much as "scribe" had become synonymous with "Lhankor Mhyte" earlier. Yuthuppan Starseers probably are the purest form of the earliest Buserian cult surviving, with the butcher function probably split off the writing a long time ago. They might refer to themselves as Zatori? The building plan of Yuthuppa is that of the city of Senthoros, brought to Anaxial by Buserian.
  8. That's the Thinokos <- Ulrana tradition you mention. Maslo has its own - Masdoumari rather than Soli, the three Crewmen Dengenti, Jomor and Miirdek, and different kings, too. Erlanagga appears to be a cognate of Elamle-ata, only one that staid at home rather than prepared peaceful integration with the Novarooplia elves. The "Elamle-ata" as the enemies of Laskal could be anything. One possibility could be an exodus from Kimos, possibly throwbacks to the demon worship of Genjera. And possibly encouraged/subverted by yellow elves. It could be just the demons of Genjera summoned and instrumentalized by the yellow elves, possibly on loan from the Gorger masters. Maslo itself is divided by their different elf attitudes. It may just be my impression, but the aggressive sea trading seems to stem from beleaguered Onlaks rather than idyllic Miirdek (discounting the Mother of Monsters which makes permanent harbor construction impossible and whose leftovers demand constant effort). Fonrit has more (human) inhabitants than the rest of Pamaltela combined. Of course it has tremendous influence. But then, Fonrit is united by the Garangordite slavocracy (with a few exceptions) and little else.
  9. East Isles without Vith, though. So what we get is a civilisation in the south-east that is neither tied to the directional lord of the east (Vith) nor to that of the south (Pamalt), and which was destroyed by Sea, eastern Antigods, and (IMO northwestern) Artmali (as we have no hint of Veldang naval activity on the Togaro Ocean, only on the Nargan sea and the "slow zone" of Sramak's river in the neighborhood of the earth cube). What we do get are strong parallels with the Fiwan Hsunchen creation myths of Pamaltela (though if Bolongo's betrayal occurred, the stories are quite silent about that), so there is continuity to Pamaltela there. In other words, Madagascar, or possibly New Zealand? That's the role of the Outrigger heroes - helmswoman and navigator. Dengenti and Jomor accompany Miirdek in the Sharzu -> Maslo version. Inki and Boroto occur in the Ulrana -> Thinokos version, as intercessors between the living and the underwater realm of the dead. The people of Alarlarverir -> Kimos apparently make do without an outrigger boat. They are the ones who remember the coming of the antigods. Theirs is the most Chthulhuid of the three Outrigger People myths. Or they are the only ones who remember the worst stuff of the demon period. Loral lies smack-dab in the region of Genjera/Gendara. The Queendom of Loral is lost to history, and may have been eradicated or horribly transmuted by the arrival of the island fortress of Zir. This appearance might be tied to the 1049-1051 cataclysms that also produced the city of Senbar in northern Pent. We have no myths of origin for the Kumankans, their History section tells us that the islands were colonized by people of Thinobutu origin without telling us how and when they arrived there, and only the map on p.697 of the Guide to ascertain their Outrigger origin. For all we know, they may have been carried off from the Sevasbos coast by Artmali as slaves. There is one interesting exception to the enslavement of Kumanku, though -- the Place of Cloth Trading on Teleos who rule over a slave population carried away from Teshnos. The Kimotan myth does allow for other places of survival, though, only following the activities of the demigod king Kediri. Thinobutu itself appears to be a spirit realm island. Maybe it was one from the start.
  10. We do have war-trees. They just aren't tree shepherds, but get animated/awakened on necessity. You can have the Birnam Wood equivalent with Aldryami assaults. Although thorny or strangling vines rolling out in advance of such a force would keep any defenders too busy to take in the scenery. Death by thousand pinpricks is more in the realm of pixie waves of attackers.
  11. The Pelaskites aren't pirates, they are the navy. That's one degree better than a letter of marque... There are a number of independent "pirate hunter" vessels based in the major ports of Kethaela which may also target vessels of business rivals of their sponsors. Certain cargo may leave a port more than once. As to pirate coves: Seriously, most of the Pelaskite territory is coastal flats. There are a few volcanic domes sticking out, but most of the place is mudflats. The Poison Shore isn't named thus for nothing, volcanic fumes can turn any hideout there into death traps. The Hendrikilander coastal folk are Pelaskites, too, as are a majority of the Esrolian seagoing folk (and possibly even some of the river folk, at least in the tidal influence zones of the estuaries, which may reach inland quite a bit). The Heortland plateau has its deep river gorges before turning into coastal flats. There may be some beach robbery going on on the Pelaskite shores - at least foreign ships running aground on sand banks may see some Pelaskite salvage efforts that make short thrift with protesting occupators of the helpless "wrecks". However, the rhythm of the Gloranthan tides makes running aground on a sandbar not much of a threat if the hull didn't take leaking damage. The slowly rising flood will take the ship awash sooner or later, provided it survives the wave action of the Solkathi Sea. More problematic are Sea Troll boarders or Ludoch pirates (who guide the ships onto sharp reefs, then harvest the underwater bounty). Ludoch pirates may enlist local Pelaskites as auxiliary troops for action above the water line.
  12. Joerg

    Nature of Metals

    As far as I am concerned, yes. The Thunderbolt is indeed the damage done by the sound effect, or in old superstition "when the lightning strikes cold". Lightning is the plasma zap of the Tesla coil, mainly visible, and nerve numbing.
  13. While Lodril undoubtedly has a liquid home element, it isn't water. In fact, we have at least two quite bad interactions of phallic molten rock mountains and water, resulting in the citadel of Brass and Castle Blue. We have two beheaded mountain myths, one with an Earth Walker as beheader, the other with Argan Argar using the phallic spear on its original owner. Greetings from Eurmal... Lodril's descent was balanced by Dayzatar's ascent. Lorion's rise resulted from Yelm's fall.
  14. Joerg

    Nature of Metals

    My problem with these impulses to scream "Let me go!" is that I cannot decide whether I am following the text of the Bohemian or the Pelorian Rhapsody here... http://etyries.albionsoft.com/etyries.com/songbook/rhapsody.html
  15. Thinobutu was an island north or northeast of Pamaltela (in a time when the God Learner maps tell us that that region was Yellow Elf jungle). They have their own creation myth, of how the Creator Soli or Masdoumari lifted their island (or possibly the whole world) out of the Sea, then made the eight ancestors, two paiirs of men and women from four different types of Clay which then went and had offspring in every possible combination of clays. The stories are in Revealed Mythologies, p.56 onward. They are of "agimori racial type" despite having a rather wide spectrum of skin tones, generally lighter than those of the Doraddi, Pithdarans or Men-and-a-Half. Personally, I would make them the skin tone equivalent of Polynesia and New Guinea. We only have fragmented stories of emigration to intermediate kingdoms as Serelazam, the Doom Current child of Togaro, made its way through their homeland, then their first places of exile, in the torrential wars. Coastal life appears to have been a feature even in the earliest of those stories, so not all seas were harmful, and fishing was a way of life. The God Learner maps in Appendix E make a heroic but ultimately futile attempt to insert the island into the dogma of the Late Golden Age and afterwards. What all stories have in common is the arrival of the sacred outrigger ship, of Sendereven origin, as an unexpected and invaluable aid against the onslaught of the seas. This also gives the various outrigger folk a distinct East Isles ancestry from the two saviors crewing that ship. The origina lands (or island) of Thinobutu was sunk, but people emigrated from there - mostly using the new expanse of water to reach new shores where they built up their exile communities. These all suffered further invasions - by Artmali cloud-ships, by Vithelan Antigods from Duravan, and by the seas. Let me enumerate the Thinobutan descendants that made it into Time first. This is an unusual approach, made necessary by the fragmentary myths of these distinct groups. The westernmost group are the folk of the Kumanku archipelago. Next are the natives of Thinokos, on the Marthino Sea shore of eastern Fonrit. Next are the weird folk of Kimos, on the far side of Laskal, with their endless war against the Gorger antigods. Next are the people of Loral, who disappeared during the Closing. Next are the people of Elamle, elf friends. Easternmost are the people of Onlaks, of the same homeland as those of Elamle, but from a later migration. Potentially Thinobutan (but without any known origin myths) are the people of Teleos (agimori race, rainbow hues of skin) who also suffered a curse during the Closing. Prior to the Closing they had notoriety as pirates, which makes an outrigger ancestry possible. In short, all of the humans south of Magasta's Pool but north of the Elf forests in coastal and island Pamaltela, except for the Fonritian blues (shown on the map of p.697). So let's look at Appendix E for Thinobutu and its heirs: p.683 has Thinobutu inside a river bend of Sshorg River, east of the continuous yellow elf jungle. Almost enough to make it conform to the native "island" myths. p.684 shows Duravan and Fozeranto as fragments of the Vithelan empire in the Flood Age, and a (too?) small island named Thinobutu. King Thakinda of that island uses secret tidal powers to resist the first torrent. The maps on p.688 and p.691 show pretty much the same coast line for northeastern Pamaltela, which has the three interim kingdoms Ulrana, Alarlaverir and Dakuputlo Elamle and the land of Genjera. The seas have advanced only slihtly from one map to the other. Thinobutu Isle remains on both of these maps, too. Only the Breaking of the World / Zzabur's blast / the implosion of the Spike opens the seas between Umathela and Maslo. The veracity of these maps in the area of northern Pamaltela has been doubted across the trenches of decades old debates. The blue cloudships could have attacked floating above that elf jungle (or green elf forest), but a sea route along northern Pamaltela prior to the Firefall appears to be the more likely answer. Still, the descriptions of the refuge places are the best (or rather only) map representation of the various interim refugee lands. As far as I am concerned, the Thinobutans are the continuation of the East Isles naval developments with northern Pamaltelan personnel. Antigod demons from Fozeranto entered their realm, but so did Artmali navies. Their first stories of coexistance and conflicts with the yellow elves are from Maslo. Whether Teleos with its own yellow elf population played a role is uncertain. Significant portions of their ancestral culture and almost all of their ancestral lands have been drowned (or in case of Loral, depopulated). So, to sum up, they are a human people of agimori racial type without being descended from the First Drinkers. They have heroic admixture by a the crew of a stranded Sendereven ship (each of the intermediate lands has this, with different names for the helmswoman and the navigator), and they culture attracted the hostility of western Artmali (IMO) and Fozeranto antigods alongside the invasive seas. IMO they were an island culture from the beginning, with a sea not shown in the Golden Age maps because it doesn't conform to the monomyth sequence of dry lands in the Golden Age. But then, neither does Ivaro's Pool and subsequent drowning in the East. The various cultures don't seem to have interacted with Vovisibor directly, although both Fozeranto and the Artmali interactions may have been tainted by Vovisibor association. Their myths are one of the main reasons why there is a serious debate whether there ever has been a single Cosmic Mountain in the Surface World, or whether that edifice/landmark was rather limited to a magically unified combination of various localized archetypical mountains which got conflated.
  16. Music as punishment? That's unusually cruel, even for barbarian standards. (Although Iron Maiden might be preferable to country yodeling...) Wacken!
  17. The Maelstrom is the greatest downwelling into the Underworld, and beyond, so any soul or spirit bound that way just goes with the flow, and becomes one with it. That's the only afterlife considered by merfolk, which makes them quite distinct from most other Gloranthans (except for their bastard children, the Brithini). The concept of joining Daliath's Well of Wisdom does have some similarity to the One Mind. I wonder whether this power was gifted to Magasta(kos) by Annilla when she plunged down after her husband Sky River Titan.
  18. Joerg

    Nature of Metals

    Both are fire sticks, and as such hand-me-downs from Aether. Perhaps the Thunderbolt was given directly to Umath, but I don't think this goes for the lightning. They are spears, which points to a sky origin. And you don't catch Vadrus, Valind or Storm Bull wielding any electric shock weaponry. The bull has his deafening roar, though. Nothing really matters...
  19. All elves are significantly smaller than humans - brown and yellow elves max out at 12 points, although browns have a lower limit of 6 rather than the 2 of yellow elves (and no, that's not what I expect from either jungle nor temprate non-dediduous forest guardians). Exceptional green elves reach similar height and mass as tall humans, but small green elves have to look up to an average-sized duck or trollkin. Although smaller size may just be lower body mass. Strangler figs are notorious for their hollow stems.. I wouldn't mind using green elf stats for some types of yellow elves. What is important IMO is the gender structure (absence of elf females) which is the opposite of the green elves (no reproduction with dryads at all, which is rare as dryads are nymphs able to mate with just about anything and generate viable offspring). But yes, aldryami are strange and weird.
  20. Those louse percentages in beginners' spell casting haunted RQ3 sorcery, too. Unless you put in Apprentice Sorcerer previous experience, your spell percentages would be in the very low two digit range. Enough years as apprentice upped these to around 50%. Once you got to use these in play, skill checks would up the skill score, provided you managed to succeed in a roll in a sufficiently stressful situation. But then, I didn't really use this definition niggardly. Doing some sorcery in hiding on a crucial door or trap allowed for minimal preparation (RQ3 Ceremony, RQG Meditate) to get somewhat reliable success chances, as did lying in ambush. Both are sufficiently stressful environments in my book to allow a skill check, but that comes down to GMing style. As a rule, I try not to punish intelligent solutions, while I am fairly merciless in cases of brute force approaches. That's where POW and spell matrices come into play. The sorcerer might even buy them from a friendly temple, individual priest, or shaman. Spirit magic is something you have. This is especially true for sorcerers. Only if you make the mistake to keep all those spells memorized, rather than relegating them to external storage. (Which goes for sorcerous spells and inscribing them, too.) Other people's POW bought for part of the treasure or perhaps services can lighten that burden. Call it community support if you are a prodigy for your temple/clan/whatever. One point of personal POW may create a multi-spirit-spell item if you read the rules with the eyes of a rules lawyer, as long as you have enough volunteers to contribute a point of POW or two. And that's only if you create the item yourself.
  21. But the fact of Elmal worshipers making up the majority of the Quivini Cold Light worshipers remains until Monrogh makes the transition and leads the mass exodus? This was described as a Kethaelan peculiarity, surviving mainly because of the isolation by the Inhuman Occupation, and a distinct dislike of Palangio's form of the cult in the south. I was part of the Friends of Glorantha initiative which basically was a Patreon (before that platform existed) during Greg's Mexican stint, producing about a chapter a month for the supporters under the heading "Ten Women Well Loved". I recall Greg reading from other, older fragments on conventions in the nineties which had no relation to this project, and played sometime later. There is the strange fragment in King of Satar describing the crossing of the Western Ocean from a first person perspective which may have been part of one of Harmast's quests. (Argrath never sailed on Sofala, using Ygg Seastorm as his ride to Luathela.) Ten Women Well Loved covers Harmast joining the Hendriki rather shortly after his impossible initiation, and then takes him across the Mirrorsea Bay into Nochet, where his Kodigvari alterations to his original Berennethtelli tribal tattoo cause panic among the Grandmothers. It explores Harmast's unique Niskis talent (and sacred duty) of causing rainfall out of blue skies during intercourse, and the high demand of this service during the time when Lokamayadon's Tarumath High Storm prevented the Orlanth strom to provide its regular rainfalls. While Harmast loved his Hendriki wife dearly, he had un-numbered sexual partners performing this duty, something which strained his marriage (although the cabbage fields around his cottage were always well-watered). This might be the longest continuous fragment of Harmast's Saga (or indeed any novel) that Greg ever wrote. Back in the early seventies, fantasy novels of 180 pages were considered the long form of the genre.
  22. Joerg

    Nature of Metals

    Yes, actually that has been my arguing point, too. Dwarf Brass precedes Storm Bronze. It is one of the three celestial sub-metals, associated with the Three Brothers. Dayzatar himself may be of any metal, but his offspring Polaris and Ourania are stars, and feature silver as their metal. And Lodril dove deep into the earth, and his bones (or that of his offspring) emerge as brass. We don't know of any other sub-divided elements as it comes to metals. While all the elements come as siblings of three in the next generation, only the fire brothers have received their own metals as acknowledged by becoming a Mostali caste. The Mostali don't like Storm Bronze - it has growth patterns, and they regard Growth as a mere means of supply. IMG the Mostali prefer to work with volcanic bronze. They might be likely to take Storm Bronze and melt it to purify it from the Growth patterns and to create a perfectly isotropic alloy rather than that naturally laminated stuff. If they want laminates, they will manufacture them to their specifications rather than dealing with unwanted prior history of the material. Like I said before, alloyists have added "metals" to alloys that they don't know in a pure, metallic form since the chalcolithic, like that (deeply misunderstood) arsenic copper (which doesn't act in any way like a blade poison). Alloys can be chemically quite stable. If you are old enough, you might carry amalgam in the holes of your teeth. This is an alloy produced from mixing silver dust with liquid mercury, and it takes some while to settle into its new shape, which makes it malleable while the dentists of old apply it to the (cleansed) cavities in your chewing apparatus. There is a "magic mixture" which makes sure that it neither is too inflexible for this kind of application nor too soft (to remain malleable for too long after application, and possibly leak mercury into the saliva). Real world brass was already mentioned by Aristoteles. If you have ever dabbled in crystallography (as many anciend natural philosophers did, fascinated by the endlessly recurring periodicity of this material), you might look at brass with some different understanding than if you just regard it as an alloy. It is a possible aspect of alchemy and sorcery which - with its potentials of symmetries - should excite anyone looking for True Shapes. Crystal lore (not in the New Age sense of light oils and similar quackery) should be on the basic curriculum of any serious sorcerer with a somewhat solid theoretical grounding. Flint knapping is a form of gem cutting used on completely isotropic, non-crystalline mineral glasses. While there are some crystals (like quartz) which show similar fracturing patterns, material like jade, obsidian, opal or flint is conceptually different from crystalline material. You can polish glasses into any shape you desire. You cannot do that with crystals. At least one True Mostali is known to have surrounded himself with gems - Martaler of the Blazing Forge, lord/overseer/most ancient one of Gemborg. The Mostali are intrigued by diamond, which is how they title clay dwarves who have excelled in their tasks to a level that rivals that of True Mostali. Unlike True Mostali, these diamond dwarves tend to be extremely focussed on their specialized tasks, though, and lack the flexibility the first generations of servants of Mostal had.
  23. Only if that environment was what Glorantha was modeled after. As a European, I often don't "get" some of the Gloranthan ecology at first glance, either. I still say that these non-deciduous temperate broadleaf trees (if encountered on Glorantha - possibly on the East Isles?) are tied to yellow elf populations that toughed it out, rather than making them tied to green elves. Hence, no females, dryad mothers only, but probably elf bows rather than blowpipes. Then let's ask Sandy.
  24. Joerg

    Seseine and Uleria

    Very good, this covers the standard Pamalt/Doraddi angle. However, Seseine's importance predates the arrival of (doraddic) agimori in the region - most of the Vadeli-Agimori interaction seems to have been in Tarien. Pamalt's Agimori push to the north, in pursuit of Vovisibor, happened east of the Tarmo and apparently didn't produce surviving settlements beyond Banamba (unless you count the Men-and-a-Half of Prax and - tentatively - the Teleosans who are at least as likely to be racial agimori because of Thinobutan ancestry). That's why I am interested in Sea Tribe ancestry, as that is a link to the Artmali. I wonder how a worshiper of Engizi would be received by the Artmali (former or newly freed). One reason why Seseine has a hard time among the Orlanthi is that Eurmal is the local seducer (something Bolongo apparently never got around to). Even the main god of the Orlanhti has a seducer side, as does his pet half brother, so sensuality alone doesn't work that well. It takes a repressive society to make her shine, but with Oria displaying just about everything in plain sight that Seseine might artfully hide, not even the mainstream Pelorians are that easy targets for her corruption. Sky and Earth, Aether and Gata. This may already have been her role in the Artmali interactions with the Vadeli (who know the art of seduction themselves, though). Which is? The Zaranistangi claim the blue planet Mastakos as the body of their ancestress, but the Veldara-descended Artmali are cousins at best. Neither Artmali nor Zaranistangi have much of an ancestral claim to Tolat other than as the (at times hostile) twin to their blue moon goddess. A tactic adopted by the Artmali and sent right back to their foes (which may have been Pamalt's counterstrike force, their Vadeli oppressors, or the Thinobutan refugee nations just for being there). (While enumerating the foes of the Artmali, it occured to me that neither Doraddic/Tishamtan Agimori, Artmali nor Vadeli appear to have had any Godtime contact with the Slarges. When and where from did they show up?) Or the Vadeli flaunted their uninhibited ways as their proof of superiority. They basically created an out-of-context encounter with the coastal populations of Kumanku, Umathela and Fonrit, and uninhibited depravity may have been one of their methods to keep their new subjects from ever doubting them.
  25. This discussion grew out of an IMO weird conception about celibacy, and a disagreement about its courses. Plus a rather cynical series of postings from me about accepting a geas being the equivalent of "calling the god of lightnings a loser in the middle of the rainstorm". I am still proposing that the main reason to impose celibacy on priests was to avoid priestly dynasties. Ever since becoming the state religion for the Roman Empire, the church had become heavily politicized, and looking at such decisions without looking at worldly issues will only create weird assumptions on dogma, in my opinion. What about monks taking on the role of a priest? Are those vows of celibacy overriding the requirement of marriage, or are they the equivalent thereof? There is some disagreement about when the church began to look into marriage as their business rather than the business of the two people involved. It is clear that by the time of Henry VIII the church thought it had to have complete authority and control over this business. British history has more of that stuff, like the slightly heretical tradition of eloping to Gretna Green. (Heretical against the Anglican Church, mind you.) The abominable stance of churches against abortion stems from an earlier as abominable rule that the un-baptized soul of the infant had to be rescued for baptism even at the cost of the life of the mother. Perverse dogmatism enforced by people subject to (probably as perverse) dogmatism that barred them from participating in either marriage or parenting. Martin Luther (who was every bit as dogmatic and bigoted than the church he seceded from - speaking as a person raised as a Lutheran here) made a point of breaking his celibacy vow and that of his wife (a former nun) as an ideological statement. (He apparently also enjoyed married life a lot.) As a GM, I always need to ask myself what kind of stories I want to enable and what kind of stories my players want to experience and to influence. Tragedy should be the occasional part of this, although not necessarily in the old Greek "they all die/are cursed in the end" sense. Still, a hero caught up by fate is a necessary element of the real world myths that we use as the basis for our roleplaying. But maybe that's another topic to be discussed. In this context, people were obsessing about involuntary breaking a geas or prerequisite to a considerable in-game power either by GM fiat (never good) or after braving impossible odds and receiving the statistically expected outcome (in other words, they asked for it), or suffering a string of bad random numbers. No risk no fun, right? The thread made it sound like I was singling out these cults. I am not. Players have their characters make dumb decisions, those characters aren't going to see me as a narrator go out of my way to salvage them. On the other hand, if I create such a situation as a plot obstacle, I don't make it insurpassable. That's not the purpose of an obstacle. If players overreact to a perceived threat, that may either be bad communication between them and the GM, or it may be them taking their in-character play to a self-destructive course, possibly badly communicated, too. A good way to warn them off is to tell them the odds.
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