Joerg

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

the Poor Fund came up. Greg said the poor fund would give maize bread (because maize is the Lunar crop after all), and just drop potatoes as a reference.

What did the Teelo Norri poor fund distribute before Hon-eel brought back maize? Something like the Jerusalem artichoke?

The carnivorous winged horses of the early Golden Age may very well count as terrible demons from above. While Hippoi lost some of those traits, there may well be intermediate states, or re-breeding efforts like the carnivorous stallion bred by the Char-un. When interacting with Godtime entities, horsefiends are a real option.

Another fiendish variation would be a horse retaining raptor claws that may be folded into hooves.

The demibird alone is a melee weapon - it is basically a variation on the Terror Bird, and it might be the rider's job to defend their beaked attack weapon. I guess the Klanth works well as a parrying weapon, taking blows on the hardwood back rather than on the obsidian blades. The mounted scouts prepare the shock of the beak attacks with their slings.

Earth cult burial practices tend to aim at the preservation of the dead body, at least of the body shape. Mummification or other forms of embalming are typical.

The dead of Nochet claim a great lot of land, making the overland import of fresh goods almost impossible. There obviously are ways to "repatriate" the dead, otherwise the temple of Esrola would be surrounded by tombs.

Sooner or later, skeletons may be what is left of a body.

I wonder what the idea is about keeping the body remains of an individual whose spirit/soul no longer lingers in Ty Kora Tek's halls. Daka Fal shamans may learn about a spirit departing to Rebirth.

1 hour ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

That makes sense for the canon and common ideas about Pavis. The background of my campaign (and part of the whole Grand Plan evolution) is that the Pavis Cult have a lot more resources being developed than are commonly known about, and thus are not needing to lean towards 'any port in a storm' as much. Plus there's the new specific ideas on how certain Lunars (including agents of the Seven Mothers) are supporting the semi-hidden Lunar agenda of taking over the Grand Plan and subverting it for their own benefits, to the detriment of the entire purpose of the plan.

Is the entire priesthood informed about the great plan? And may a Red Marriage plot have been used as a ploy to give the Lunars a false impression of progress?

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Very much like the Japanese processions to Kyoto but its to collect in Glorantha whereas its to force the warlord to send money travelling with the entourage as well as getting the taxes.

The Sartarite model has the City Rexes pretty much stationary, and the royal palace of Boldhome isn't just for absentee ostentation, either, but I wonder whether King Sartar ever stopped traveling his realm, and how much his successors did outside of overseeing their building projects.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where do we find reefs if at all along the Heortland Coast? Do we need to go south of Kenstone, maybe 3 Step, what about Seapolis?

My mapping of the intertidal and permanently submerged areas of the eastern Mirrorsea Bay sadly has not advanced a bit in the last months. I have plenty of scenario seeds and sandbox entries waiting to be detailed.

That said, IMG there are children of Veskarthen trying to raise their heads above the sea bottom or the water level much of the time, but not unopposed. There are shattered pieces of land remaining from Worcha's onslaught underwater, possibly including Golden or Storm Age settlements fallen or glided into the seas, maybe one hanging almost sideways from the bedrock that fell into the water now providing shelter for a pod of Ludoch. There are mussle banks and sandbars accumulating from the play of currents and tides, and also destroyed again. There are corals in the Mirrorsea Bay, though no barrier reefs (yet), but part of the Building Wall magic may have been related to coral reefs growing.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

But are the nobles the most magically inclined? Yes knights/soldiers for physical weapons combat but are always felt the nobles were even more magically capable then any of the priests that were not nobles as well?

The magical and fully literate caste among the Aeolians are the zzaburi, with the nobles using Orlanthi magic instead - possibly becoming rune lords or rune priests of Orlanth, Issaries, Humakt or the Earth goddesses in their roles as rulers, traders, administrators and judges.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Where might this be? Is it like right outside the walls? Are these glazed bricks and can colors or even wall murals be made to order? (I didn't read my Nochet book yet... sadly.) The Kiln is in the city but I have not looked in detail.

Meldektown sits among the clay pits south of the walled city of Nochet and is home to one of the greatest urban populations of Aeolians in Kethaela, possibly greater than Mt. Passant and quite likely greater than in Vizel or Refuge. The Aeolians share  the suburb with adherents of other Malkioni denominations and certainly also a significant number of non-Malkioni. See Harald Smith's Nochet - Queen of Cities for details and the map.

2 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Discussion regarding The Kiln in Nochet and brickmaking has me thinking that Dwarves would be the quintessential ceramicists in Glorantha?

Read about Jolanti creation which seems close to ceramics?

Joerg said: Clay dwarfs are one of those badly diminished Elder Race expressions. Their self-replication mechanic stolen from Grower (or finally implemented from the Man Rune, unlike their elders), they are somewhat expendable repair crew following the Gold foreman exegesis of the available copies of the origin...

Are Clay Dwarves made in molds and what work order made the original Clay Dwarves?

I am guessing Clay Dwarves would be the ceramists?

The dwarves might be to high and mighty to use terracotta whereas humans would do so for pottery and bricks. Dwarves would wish for perfection and would use molds rather than a potters wheel, just guessing at least those that are traditionalists?

One rumor states the dwarvish ceramists intend to perfect their adiabatic turbo-compound steam engine(s) as part of the repair of the World Machine.

Do dwarves use "living clay" to make these engines?

Are the molds for flintlocks and blunderbusses made of ceramic material which are more resistant to high temps or do they use sorcery to make the weapon components?

 

 

 

 

Clay dwarfs are the conceptual copy of the various races of humans made from clay (like the Agitorani, the first Dara Happans, the Thinobutan ancestors, the second children of Vimorn etc. etc.) rather than the result of ceramics. The clay in question definitely is unfired.

Jolanti are carved out of living stone, quite different from golems shaped with wet clay and then fired in a kiln before receiving their written OS. No idea which mad magicians build these in Glorantha, if anywhere.

Dwarfs are renowned for masonry, working rock into building blocks. They also know concrete, poured rock. While they could work with fired bricks, I don't see much to inspire them to go in that direction.

Rather than pottery, dwarfs delight in the use of glass produced by the Lead caste, and their notion of ceramics probably comes as semi-molten rock inside glazed surfaces. In cooperation with rock dwarfs, they might produce glazed concrete containers if blown glass bottles (not necessarily made of clear glass) don't serve.

The other high temperature caste of the Mostali are the brass mostali, and they might have an interest in heat-resistant chamotte. Possibly provided by a cooperation of Rock, Lead and Quicksilver caste brethren.

Vingkot was immolated, but that was in order to rid himself of the ailing but immortal body that was unable to recover from the Chaos wound he had received at the Battle of Stormfall. It was part of his apotheosis, but may have set the trend for his successors (possibly hoping for a similar transition into the Storm Realm). Other Orlanthi may have retained other practices. None of the other gods of the Storm Pantheon received anything like a burial (unless you count the Underworld dismemberment of Umath at the hands and presumably jaws of Shadzor-Alkor).

In the time of King Heort, separating the Living from the Dead was the major task to get the Silver Age started. Having the Dead cremated may have allowed for a clearer distinction than body burials. With Vingkot as the example, male cremations may have become the standard (although the five husband-founders from outside of the Vingkotlings may have brought their own rites, possibly including necrophagy for the descendants of Porscriptor the Cannibal).

Cremation results in burnt remains, with major bones often surviving the pyre (in a brittle state) when cremated properly, and possibly only medium-rare in case of mass burnings with limited access to fuel.

In a respectful cremation, the dead body is laid out in state, with his grave goods which are supposed to undergo the same transformation/transition as the body, to be magically at hand in the afterlife. In case of rich burials, not all grave goods may fit onto the bier, and may have been marked for their afterlife journey in another way.

One might need to consider the non-modern concepts of personal property among the Orlanthi when it comes to providing grave goods, though - these might include items or at least symbols enabling an everyday afterlife in the Otherworld, but more likely the deceased will receive a preparation for the afterlife heroquest, with support items like you give to a living heroquester about to penetrate the veil. Much of the property of the deceased will be property belonging to the bloodline rather than the person, with part of that property having been temporarily bestowed by the clan (or some higher authority), like much of the means of primary production.

14 hours ago, g33k said:

When you cite Norway & the Aleutians here, are you talking about the physical landscape?
Or something more human-centric?

Jeff was actively distancing himself from such comparisons (for Ygg's islands, not the Three-Step Islands) and any such comparisons.

The islands off Washington or British Columbia are probably what we need to look for if we want real world comparisons at all. Or possibly off the San Francisco Bay area.

When I suggested the Vesteralen all those years back then I had just returned to Germany from northern Norway. I personally drew on such comparisons after having lived inland of the Lofoten and Vesteralen for a bit, finding a lot of local historical detail on surviving on a cold but reliably liquid sea quite inspiring - especially the pre-Viking elements of local history and pre-history, but also notes on pre-modern everyday life as fishermen and whalers before, during and after the Viking era, including the culture of the coastal "Finns" (Saami).

The Wolf Pirates started out as Yggite northmen leaving the service of the Vadeli, and those on Gothalos and Ginorth may retain more of that heritage than those who occupy the Threestep Isles.

The role of Yggite women hasn't been explored much outside of depictions of female wolf pirates (other than Gunda). Possibly largely irrelevant for the Three-Step Isles, YGWV.

A majority of the non-enspirited Jolanti abducted by Gonn Orta followed Thog in his invasion of Pavis. They ended up as material for the Wall, creating the smooth outer ring by merging with the slabs planted there by Paragua and his followers.

It is unknown whether the Nidan Council of Nine still has giant Jolanti, or whether they can produce new ones.

The Faceless Statue was exceptional in size compared to the Nidan abductees. It doesn't seem like the Greatway Mostali retained the magics to awaken it, but Pavis succeeded with the added magical punch of the EWF accumulation of draconic magics.

Having walked in Cyrilius Harmonius's sandals, part of the Pavis cult was actively courting the Seven Mothers cult as another associate in the city array. Survival in the Rubble taught them to adopt whichever tools, foods and magics might help them to continue their existance, and possibly reinstate their former glory.

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I don't think there ever was any blood sacrifices in Heortland.

Of sacrificial beasts, most certainly. Of humans (or other sentients), unlikely outside of Chaotic cults such as Krarsht or Bagog.

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The merchants will be Issaries as they have the skill in communication and creating neutral market grounds. And the merchants will also likely have Lhankor Mhy scribes with them.

Kings and warlords may well have a semi-nomadic routine to overseeing their holdings, traveling in state with lots of  received gifts, collected tax, and gifts to their more loyal followers.

Diplomacy usually is carried by the exchange of valuable gifts (of the kind Biturian Varosh carries at the start of his narrative).

The Malkioni make little distinction between those who trade and those who rule and organize. For the Orlanthi, the role model of the king is less about diplomacy and a lot more about martial and/or magical prowess (something the Malkioni have outsourced to other castes).

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Aeolians aren't a ruling class - they tend to be concentrated in the Esvular cities and towns down south. So Heortlings would not be sending tribute to them, but to the temples and clan chiefs. 

Aeolian talars do seem to control traditional chieftains and Orlanthi peasants in Esvular in terms of tax flow.

Aeolian farmers seem to cluster in Esvular or Bandori lands, around their cities, as do Aeolian fisherfolk. Aeolian craftsfolk (of the Worker caste) may have spread throughout Kethaela, with a large community just outside of Nochet (where they appear to control the brick-making?). They do seem to rake in more primary production from outside of their group than other populations in Kethaela, which might make them look as some form of gentry.

15 minutes ago, Cassius said:

Could we add to this list brandys, liquors and other fruit alcohols, made from apples (like Calvados), pears, plums, etc.? Do distillation techniques exist in this part of the world? At first glance, it seems a Mostali thing.

In our world, distillation (e.g. of pitch) as a human technology is older than application of yeast to sugary stuff. Distillation of alcohol requires a different technique for cooling the vapors and arrived delayed, probably unavailable in any of the local Bronze Ages except maybe in ancient China.

Glorantha is a postapocalyptic world with many an anachronistic technology or innovation available (such as alphabetic scripts, triremes, or metal coinage, all unknown from archaeological finds in our world's local Bronze Ages even though some of our world's mythical texts might be interpreted as the ancients having had similar tech.

Quicksilver mostali have distillation down pat, and the ones in Dragon Pass even hire out the Alchemical Transformer. The Second Council theninherited Feldichi magical technology, some of which may have survived into the EWF era (or re-discovered).

There is also the possibility of using selective freezing to concentrate alcohol. Dragon Pass winters certainly get cold enough for making Apple Jack.

Whether canonical or just YGWV, feel free to add some varieties of liquor to your games. I wouldn't make it a wide-spread technology as the equipment (glassware or metal tubing for capturing and condensating the vapors) would be quite costly. Gustbran and/or Caladra and Aurelion are likely to be patrons of some of that.

14 hours ago, JonathanQuaife said:

Can we get to see this in some form? It sounds excellent!

Apart from the niche publication in the (mostly non-Gloranthan) scenario book for the German edition of HQ2, extensive notes exist, but with this morning's (mechanical) computer crash, I either have to wish for data recovery or write it again from scratch. And I most definitely need an editor.

The original version is set in 1619 or 1620, with a trip through the Lunar camp besieging Whitewall as the start of the travel entcounters. While that is not essential, I planned to make good use of world politics going on as backdrop for a road trip.

In order to remain on topic, the scenario has two political portions. The protagonists are supposed to be (married to) descendants of the priestess (through female descent, conforming Esrolian legitimacy), spread out over numerous clans and even tribes in Sartar, and maintain her wishes against her patrilineal descendants of her home clan.

In Nochet, they find out that their (great-) grandmother was from a branch lineage inside the ruling Enfranchised House in Nochet, who had fled her house after losing an important heiress she was supposed to chaperone to the Puppeteers. Dramas were written around the parents of said heiress. Having left in disgrace and damaging the main lineage, the current mistress of the House is disinclined to allow her stray kinswoman to join her ancestors in the family complex (although the ancestors at least of the side line, and from way earlier, would support her if a trial of ancestors would be held). Still, the will of a Grandmother might override even ancestral wishes (for as long as she remains in power).

I may have crammed too much historical detail into the backstory, but provided the players run with it and acquire some of the information during play they may develop personal passions towards a number of very influential people in Sartar, the Lunar Empire and Esrolia.

14 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Though I appreciate there's a boatload of room for anyone's Glorantha to vary with this, and there is something poetic about the players knowing that sorcery is bleeding the magic from the world, knowing what Greg thought Glorantha turned into.

Magic points used in Sorcery and Spirit Magic or for boosting Rune spells all go the same way. Most sorcery makes do without Tapping, using a variant of worship which cuts out the rune deities to empower "parish" wizards, or else milks bound spirits like everybody else does, only in larger amounts.

Given the presence of hot mineral springs in the chain, I would imagine that these would be used for long-term stewing, lowering earthware pots (possibly unglazed) into the springs.

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Any what happens to those magic points once spent? Are they meaningfully different to magic points granted by a god, or a spirit, which are similarly spent?

Above Dayzatar's realm there is the Source, a spring of energies that runs through runic channels (which includes deities and spirits) and disperses into the world. In the Surface world, these energies can be accumulated and spent by mortals (and spirits and demigods inhabiting those places). The magic put into spells as well as any not accumulated magic percolates into the Underworld where it ultimately dissipates into the Void.

Underworld magics can use some of that "snow" coming down and use the potential vs. some deeper underworld, but most human magic like Malkioni sorcery requires a higher form of magic (from the source) to be brought down into the Surface World levels.

Tapping takes some of this Source quality (and possibly the ability to accumulate such source energies) and turns that into short term magical energy which then can power spells if used up within the duration of the passive "holding" component of the Tap spell after the active extraction/transformation of energies. (IMG sorcery spells are the equivalent of spirits - magical entities with limited purpose and without (much) identity other than the mind-space associations of the sorcerer who constructed them.)

The passive component of the Tap spell acts like a temporary magic point matrix for the caster, a matrix that can only be emptied once the active phase of the Tapping ended and whose capacity is limited by the intensity allotted to that.

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Perhaps the difference is they are untethered from their source, and spiral off into the Void (to return as Creation raining down? Who knows the ecology of Void vs Creation).

There are a few non-sorcerous magics which also allow a temporary build-up of magical energy, like the Absorption rune spell which strips weaker incoming spells of their purpose, storing or rather transferring them to the caster of the spell.

Magic point matrices or dead crystals may conserve magic points donated to them indeterminately.

Magic point or POW transfer to a wyter is a common occurrance, with the wyter priest able to command these points to power spells they (or the wyter) know.

Collecting POW donations for enchantments are a rules possibility almost as toxic as Tapping.

5 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

  Hide contents

For those who still doubt the existence of Gloranthan microorganisms: Word of Jeff would seem to be that Gloranthans had a word for prokaryotes.

Yes: Darkness.

Fouling is a Darkness process, release of foul egg aroma included. Less smelly forms of anaerobic digestion (and digestion in general), too.

I have a (German language) HQ mini-campaign about a 90 years old Asrelia priestess asking on her deathbed to be interred in her family crypt in the Nochet Necropolis (aka Antones Estates), against the wish of her clanfolk for whom she had been the dominant earth priestess. Part of the campaign is getting the green light for her and her requested grave goods to be let go, part is getting her there, and the last part is to get her kin to allow her burial, or failing that, breaking and interring. Plus there is an old (Nontrayan) nemesis of hers waiting to take revenge.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Are Wolf Pirates the Sea People of the Bronze Age Collapse for Glorantha?

Optically, yes. The illustrations of Wolf Pirates have inexplicably copied Medinet Habu uniforms without offering any Gloranthan region where people in that dress would be at home, rather different from Medinet Habu or the treatment of neighboring traditional dress on the Gods Wall. Possibly in a desperate attempt to make things (Mediterranean) Bronze Age when everything on the seas but the main metal cries Roman Iron age.

In practice, the Closing was doing that catasstrophic interruption of international trade, and following the Opening, the Waertagi are going interrupt open sea traffic, aiming to re-instate their pre-God Learner monopoly and suppression of sea exploration.

There is a practical solution: rename whatever you think sounds stupid. The name occurs exactly once, you can use corflu and nobody would have noticed it, at least notyet nochet. Others may have had their problems with mangled latin, like the evil midwife of the devil who is named something like "apple girl" rather than "bad one".

There is also Ludovic Chabant's scenario Bog Struggles on the Jonstown Compendium. 

1 hour ago, davecake said:

I think exerting undue influence on the Seven Mothers cult, and other Lunar religions, is one of the most popular hobbies among the Lunar upper classes. 

While I agree about this statement, the various opposing interest groups tend to create some balance of influence which can only be tipped by well-aimed darts.

11 hours ago, Ageha said:

Southern Peloria is, per the Guide to Glorantha, explicitly described as being predominantly populated by Orlanthi peoples with an Orlanthi culture. 

If it was a blend, as you are saying, it would not be described like that. It would then be described as different, unique, culture.

It is not.

The guide is explicitly clear on this. Southern Peloria is simply outright stated to be Orlanthi.

And the Orlanthi are of course (in)famous for being a hybrid culture with acculturation of foreign influences, like adopting an entire Water Tribe (the Helerings) into the Vingkotling kingdom, and more to the point the sun marriage with the descendants of Yamsur and Hyalor. Saird is an ancient Earth culture with Solar and Storm husband protectors and various beast totems, including lions, dogs, bears, raccoons, goats and rams, not to mention the continuum of water bird ancestor worship. Urban Saird follows the Dara Happan model, not some God Learner model that only indirectly was acculturated via the Bright Empire.

Riverine Saird follows the weeder ways, including cultivation or at least harvest of various forms of rice. Lowland Saird and Tarsh has "dry farming" aided by irrigation as rainfall north of the Rockwoods is rather limited. While the Taming of Sshorg(a) River may be explained by the Dragonspine falling across its course, there is also an interpretation of irrigation doing the trick, and Orlanth might merely take the credit from the Imperial imposition of irrigation of the Oslir (and its tributaries).

Also: Aren't Orlanthi living under a Dara Happan style urban system or the Sun Dome Temple theocacies the very definition of hegemony you are demanding?

"The Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" marks the end of Germanic independence from Roman imperial hegemony, bringing Germania Magna into the fold of Roman style legislation and jurisdiction (rather than the quaint continuation of Old Germanic tribal laws in Iceland and Anglo-Saxon territories). Same thing in Saird.

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Orlanth is happiest when his wife is dead

She is not dead, she is sleeping. Probably snoring gently, but at least she stopped nagging him.

2 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

his cold winds are blowing in the dark of winter/storm season, 

Not Orlanth. He is just full of hot air. Maybe under pressure - we all know how gas cools down when leaving through a nozzel - but cold is not really a feature of Orlanth. His sister Inora got all of that.